Train 4 Trade Skills

[rfvpatlttp]

Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

Its a hard trade to get into. You will never walk into work after completeing your course and you will be lucky to earn £65,000 after the first 4 years let alone the first year.

That's ok, you won't have to register for VAT then.

 

[stecunners]

hi,,i have been doing the course for over a year, been on 1 practical,and got to tma 29...i have wrote to T4TS and told them i am cancelling the course....i was lied to by the rep.

he said............

i will be working as a plumber in 10 months........LIE
I will receive a (free) tool kit...........................LIE
the practical side is a couple of weeks not six....LIE
there is a shortage of plumbers in the uk...........LIE
i will walk into a job when i complete the course.LIE
there is a training centre in glasgow.................LIE
The virtual reality software is fantastic.............LIE

I know the glasgow thing doesnt affect me,but there were a lot of scottish guys at the training centre who were well p*ssed off,but how else would they get scottish guys to sign up.

The practicals cant start until you have paid so much off the fees,so how am i supposed to complete the course in 10 months.
The qualifications you end up with dont really add up to much,i found this out when ringing a few local plumbing companys,,they want years on the job not a piece of paper with city and guilds on it.......

the virtual house is crap, i spent ages trying to finish the first one and kept failing because i hadnt put the lid back on the cwsc,turns out its a software glitch and i had to restart and do it all over again....

So i have made up my mind to end it now rather than keep forking out £135 a month for nothing much in the end....
i believe that when you sign the contract it is legally binding,but if the rep would have told less lies it wouldnt have sounded so promising and i wouldnt have signed up in the first place...

 

[Woot]

I foolishly signed up to a distance course by Train4TradeSkills (Metropolitan International Schools Limited. I paid £100 deposit by credit card with £5670 remaining to pay by loan financed by Barclays Partner Finance. The salesman said I would be able to train at an ATL centre in Bristol but when I phoned ATL they said they did not have one there. After studying the small print and finding out they have been investigated by BBC Watchdog and Inside Out under their SkillsTrain name I decided to cancel within the legal "cooling off" period. I have canceled the loan with BPF sucessfully, but have not had any adequate response from T4TS after two weeks despite canceling the course within 3 days by recorded mail with follow up letters by recorded and special delivery. I believe I am covered by The Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumers Home or Place of Work etc Regulations 2008 and the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Train4TradeSkills just rudely dismiss me when I phone them, and will not reply to any of my letters sent by recorded delivery.

 

[REDSAW]

hi,,i have been doing the course for over a year, been on 1 practical,and got to tma 29...i have wrote to T4TS and told them i am cancelling the course....i was lied to by the rep.

he said............

i will be working as a plumber in 10 months........LIE
I will receive a (free) tool kit...........................LIE
the practical side is a couple of weeks not six....LIE
there is a shortage of plumbers in the uk...........LIE
i will walk into a job when i complete the course.LIE
there is a training centre in glasgow.................LIE
The virtual reality software is fantastic.............LIE

I know the glasgow thing doesnt affect me,but there were a lot of scottish guys at the training centre who were well p*ssed off,but how else would they get scottish guys to sign up.

The practicals cant start until you have paid so much off the fees,so how am i supposed to complete the course in 10 months.
The qualifications you end up with dont really add up to much,i found this out when ringing a few local plumbing companys,,they want years on the job not a piece of paper with city and guilds on it.......

the virtual house is crap, i spent ages trying to finish the first one and kept failing because i hadnt put the lid back on the cwsc,turns out its a software glitch and i had to restart and do it all over again....

So i have made up my mind to end it now rather than keep forking out £135 a month for nothing much in the end....
i believe that when you sign the contract it is legally binding,but if the rep would have told less lies it wouldnt have sounded so promising and i wouldnt have signed up in the first place...

so whats the problem?.
is it not for you, or are you struggling to get the grasp of things?.
i have not got anything to do with these companies, but i do know that they can be done in 6 months whilst in a job.
i suppose they told you you will earn £70,0000 a year too, delivered by 50 virgins on your birthday each year, like all sales men from all courses do?.
truth is after one year on the course, your cooling of period has well expired me thinks.
all you have done is give them a get out of 'training you' clause, by telling them to stuff it whilst they keep all the money that you have paid. yes, they allready have it, as it is the bank you now owe. and by people i know who have tried this approch, well, they are still paying monthly.
my advice is to stick at it, hit it hard and get it done. either way to do or not to do, at the end of the day it was your choice.

I foolishly signed up to a distance course by Train4TradeSkills (Metropolitan International Schools Limited. I paid £100 deposit by credit card with £5670 remaining to pay by loan financed by Barclays Partner Finance. The salesman said I would be able to train at an ATL centre in Bristol but when I phoned ATL they said they did not have one there. After studying the small print and finding out they have been investigated by BBC Watchdog and Inside Out under their SkillsTrain name I decided to cancel within the legal "cooling off" period. I have canceled the loan with BPF sucessfully, but have not had any adequate response from T4TS after two weeks despite canceling the course within 3 days by recorded mail with follow up letters by recorded and special delivery. I believe I am covered by The Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumers Home or Place of Work etc Regulations 2008 and the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Train4TradeSkills just rudely dismiss me when I phone them, and will not reply to any of my letters sent by recorded delivery.

don't quite understand what you are saying?.
are you complaining about saving £5,750 or loosing £100????????????
personally i think the press have put the willies up you, as far as i know t4tskills is no worse nor no better than any other training provider out there.
so based on that i take it you wont be looking at getting into plumbing then?.
what will you be looking at doing?.

 

[REDSAW]

then i whould take the loss of £100 on the chin, you will save that in transport anyhow providing thats all it will cost you. good luck.

 

[Woot]

don't quite understand what you are saying?.
are you complaining about saving £5,750 or loosing £100????????????
personally i think the press have put the willies up you, as far as i know t4tskills is no worse nor no better than any other training provider out there.
so based on that i take it you wont be looking at getting into plumbing then?.
what will you be looking at doing?.

The main problem was the salesman lying, saying I could do training in Bristol, when in fact their training centres are as far away as Leeds. If I knew that I would not have signed. I am looking at training centres nearer home, so far have found one in Holsworthy, Devon, and also Plymouth and Exeter. Will do some proper research into their courses, will not sign for anything that has a credit agreement attached to it, and will study the small print and find some people who have done their courses to see how they got on.

then i whould take the loss of £100 on the chin, you will save that in transport anyhow providing thats all it will cost you. good luck.

Thanks RedSaw34, good advice, hopefully I've learnt my lesson now and will find a more suitable course.

Sorry, messed up my edit, this post was originally before previous post.

 

[david williams]

hrere is no shortage of plumbers in england,there is a glut of half to poorly trained want to be plumbers,this not a poor reflection of these people, it is proof that the people who run the plumbing industry just do not care,no matter what you belive you can not be a " master plumber" in 12 weeks as advertised,the plumbing industry great days are over,we are inundated with train fast and give us your money companies.web sites to get you work ,all they do is drive down your price,they all say they only pass 3 numbers on to the custermer butyou will never know if they passed on 100 numbers,and most do.dont look to the goverment to help,there to busy stealing off of us to care,most of the qualifications c@g bpec etc are now not worth the paper they are printed on

 

[fuzzy]

I think the message that there is no shortage of plumbers, the rates are not that high, the traning is slow and expensive, its a hard trade to learn etc etc is slowly getting out there.
Some people set their heart on it and after knowing all the draw backs still want to spend alot of money to train then good luck too them, i dont mind someone taking their time, paying their money, using a private prvider etc if thats what they want, good luck to them.
Thing is, there are people who dont understand all the above and sign up for a course that doesnt offer them what they need and its too late when they realise.
Who do we blame? the providers for trying to make money, the salesmen for trying to earn a living, the courses that are designed to enable candidates to train without an apprenticeship, the sector skillss council and C&G's for signing up 1,000s when they know they wont get jobs?
IMO- the message above needs to get out, i have NO problem with anyone learning if they know the facts, the problem is the facts ae not out there and they should be. I probably blame 'the man in the pub' who says 'get a job as a plumber and you will make a fortune', people sign up without investigating the situation and find out too late. Until the message gets to the know it all in the pub that plumbers dont make 1,000s or offer a job for life the situation wil continue.
I know a young man who was told by friends and family 'get on a plumbing course and you will NEVER be out of work' After 3 years of college and over 150 applications at local plumbing companies he has never had even 1 day of plumbing work. he said his replies if he got any just said they are unindated with apps from people with only Tec Certs 6129s and they dont even consider them anymore.
Did everyone know that the TC's are going and soon there will be no plumb qual without a job? like it used to be? when we trained a few groups of aprentices at a time there were enough plumbers to go round, only because in the 80s it took a dive we ended up in this position, now we have overtrained, boom and bust, WILL WE EVER LEARN??????
Sorry iv mde several different points there

 

[rfvpatlttp]

[/QUOTE] he said his replies if he got any just said they are unindated with apps from people with only Tec Certs 6129s and they dont even consider them anymore.
[/QUOTE]


NHS Jobs. Maudsley Hospital Denmark Hill London. Looking for Multiskilled Maintenance Technician (Fitter/Plumber)

Now here's the thing:

MUST HAVE C&G LEVEL 2 IN PLUMBING.

That'll be the 6129 then!


[/QUOTE]
I am looking at training centres nearer home, so far have found one in Holsworthy, Devon, and also Plymouth and Exeter. Will do some proper research into their courses, will not sign for anything that has a credit agreement attached to it, and will study the small print and find some people who have done their courses to see how they got on.[/QUOTE]


I know some one doing the C&G course with the one in Holsworthy.

The course work content is vertually identical to that of T4TS but he has to complete all or the first set or modules before Posting everything back, that's all his test papers and course folder to London to get it marked.
Who trusts the Post Office not to lose it all?
They have no online training, no tutors to email for back up, no TMA's at the end of each section THAN CAN BE EMAILED to work through and the Bpec WRAS Water Reg's is not included in the price but can be added on for a fee.

He chose Holsworthy because it was closer to home but having seen the course material from T4TS from me he wishes he had gone with them and put up with the travel and week long stays at ATL in Southampton.

For the guy earlier looking to train near Bristol, the Apprenticeship Training Limited centre at Hedge End would be the place to do your practicals not Leeds.

BUT.... It's still your choice.

 

[fuzzy]

he said his replies if he got any just said they are unindated with apps from people with only Tec Certs 6129s and they dont even consider them anymore.
[/QUOTE]


NHS Jobs. Maudsley Hospital Denmark Hill London. Looking for Multiskilled Maintenance Technician (Fitter/Plumber)

Now here's the thing:

MUST HAVE C&G LEVEL 2 IN PLUMBING.

That'll be the 6129 then!


[/QUOTE]
I am looking at training centres nearer home, so far have found one in Holsworthy, Devon, and also Plymouth and Exeter. Will do some proper research into their courses, will not sign for anything that has a credit agreement attached to it, and will study the small print and find some people who have done their courses to see how they got on.[/QUOTE]


I know some one doing the C&G course with the one in Holsworthy.

The course work content is vertually identical to that of T4TS but he has to complete all or the first set or modules before Posting everything back, that's all his test papers and course folder to London to get it marked.
Who trusts the Post Office not to lose it all?
They have no online training, no tutors to email for back up, no TMA's at the end of each section THAN CAN BE EMAILED to work through and the Bpec WRAS Water Reg's is not included in the price but can be added on for a fee.

He chose Holsworthy because it was closer to home but having seen the course material from T4TS from me he wishes he had gone with them and put up with the travel and week long stays at ATL in Southampton.

For the guy earlier looking to train near Bristol, the Apprenticeship Training Limited centre at Hedge End would be the place to do your practicals not Leeds.

BUT.... It's still your choice.[/QUOTE]


How do you know they will consider a 6129 as a level2 in plumbing? The 6129 is only considered by the sector skills council for building services as a part qualification. to say its a L2 is misleading many companies who dont realise its not the full qual such as the NVQ 6089 and only find out the short comings of the candidate when its to late. As such, now many companies have realised and dont even consider the 6129 anymore. These may accept it or they may not, probably comes down to how much expereince the candidate has got when applying. if 50 apply and the interviewer knows what quals are what a new entrant with only a 6129 will be at the bottom of the pile. I have spoke to so many who have a 6129 and NEVER EVER worked in plumbing because they cannot get a job. there will always be exceptions.
Because of the problems i have written, the new quals have dropped all tech certs(6129)s nd all that wlll be available will be full NVQs although they will becalled diplomas

 

[simondjuk]

Well im not impressed with Train4 Trade

I completed Module 13 in late September and Id not heard anything by early January so I phoned them up to find out what was happening.

The woman on the phone said 'our system hasnt triggered so thats why you havent been put through to Practical Training' This is the third time that the 'not been triggered' escuse has been used. (First and Second were the next set of modules books)

Anyway to cut a long story short, ive now been told that the earliest Practical Training I can attend is in...May! Thats 8 months since I submitted Module 13. So basically im paying for 8 months of course that i cant progress any further on.

I think thats very unfair that their system hasnt 'triggered' but im still expected to carry on as normal.

Well, there will be a letter of complaint going to them in the next few days.

Just to add and if anyone knows, is there a Training Centre in Wakefield? - I was told there was and now im doubting that info.

 

[plumbitearth]

The training centre's are in Southampton and Leeds mate, not been to Leeds but i can say Southampton is excellent, the only problem is the travel !!!!!!

 

[andymc]

yeah the Leeds one is in Wakefield, done my first 2 weeks there, cant fault the training, surprised by how much stuff we got through, looking forward to my next 2 weeks.
I had to travel from Glasgow but got travel and accomodation money back.

 

[rfvpatlttp]

From Learnatrade.co.uk

Employment opportunities in the construction and building industry

Question.
What qualification do you need to work as a plumber in the UK?

Answer.
None!

If you want to be a plumber, get yourself a van, a bag of tools, contact your local tax office and register as a self employed person, (click the link for more information) take out a Public liability insurance policy, and you're a plumber.
The trouble is, there are a lot of cowboys out there who have done exactly that!
But you're not a cowboy, becase you've had training!

So, if you want to get plumbing work.... and assuming you have the basic practical skills after completing a year at college, there are two ways of going about it.
First way is to be an employee working for somebody. Go to the job centre - buy the local paper every day and look for plumbing jobs - ring around places looking for maintenence plumbers such as hospitals, local council, that kind of thing. DON'T TELL THEM YOU'RE A TRAINEE!! There are so many crap plumbers out there that with your training, you are an expert!!
September to May is the best time to get work in the plumbing industry.
Everything dies in the summer time - customers on holiday - nothing breaking down - it's a famine out there!! But when October comes, and the cold weather kicks in.... It's showtime!! This is especially so for the next section of this information.
The second approach is to do those things I've mentioned above about becoming a self employed plumber, then open up the yellow pages to 'Plumbers' - phone up the companies advertising there, tell them you're a plumber, and I can almost guarantee that you will soon get work - especially if you live in or around London. You will need a van of your own to do this kind of work. Plus, of course, you can do it at times to suit yourself. Just do weekends and evenings until you get the confidence to go for it full time.
That's the kind of work I did for years, and I loved every minute of it!
It's all working self employed. They get the work, which is all emergency call out repair work, you go and do it, and you split the labour charges 50/50. You might think that's a bit of a bummer if you're doing all the work while they sit in the office. But it's worth it. They will be paying a fortune in advertising, answering the telephones, dealing with the crap the customers throw up at them, and doing all the admin stuff.
Be warned though, like I said a little earlier, it's always quiet on the repair work in the summer months. Lots of sitting about in your van waiting for things to happen. And it's not a nine to five job either.. You may get called out at all hours of the day or night to deal with emergencies. The thing is with this kind of work, is that you're on your own. It's all down to you to carry out the repair with no back up! But.. and I don't want to sound cynical here. If you screw up, look upon it as good experience and learn from it.
The other good thing about this kind of work is that you can make absolute mega-bucks!

Taking a chance:

One of my students a few years ago, (David, mature student in his 50s) only did nine months of the first year at college and didn't get a qualification at that time.
What he did, was those things I mentioned above re: self employment, but instead of approaching yellow page plumbing companies he put an ad in the local paper.... When he first started I was getting a HELP ME! call off him every couple of days. Once he was up and running, he went back to college and finally did get a qualification. Now he's working his nuts off and employing people!
When you're looking to make such a massive change in your life, sometimes you have to get out there and hustle.
So there you go,​

 

[fuzzy]

All trades look to secure their respect and history of high skills by ensuring we keep up high standards and therefore the respect of clients and people paying money for the skills. Then a 'teacher' comes on here and advises people to set up as a plumber with little or no training????

'Your not a cowboy, youve been to college for a year' All those who have completed a traditional apprenticeship and/or trained for years gaining full advanced qualifications must feel so foolish

We wonder why the Goverment want to bring in competent person schemes? We wonder why clients complain and plumbers get a bad name?

This is one of the reasons that there wil be NO TECH CERT 6129 NEXT ACADEMIC YEAR - Only full NVQ's (under a new name)

 

[rfvpatlttp]

Not a teacher!

Quote from a teacher and supplier of GOLA examination training software.

If you had read the article you would of noticed the first line said:-

From Learnatrade.co.uk

Though I'd put the article on here for all thoughs saying they have had no work at all since doing the course, can't find a plumbing firm to employ them, been told they will never work in the industry and want to sue for their money back.

 

[fuzzy]

Not a teacher!

Quote from a teacher and supplier of GOLA examination training software.

If you had read the article you would of noticed the first line said:-

From Learnatrade.co.uk

Though I'd put the article on here for all thoughs saying they have had no work at all since doing the course, can't find a plumbing firm to employ them, been told they will never work in the industry and want to sue for their money back.

Oh sorry i thought this was your view, didnt pick up on it all being part of a quote. It appears we agree then

 

[rfvpatlttp]

Would that be fuzzy logic then? 297 Posts and fuzzy has not made any friends yet.

I think, if you can't get a plumbing firm to take you on, simply because:-

* You didn't go down the tea boy on day release at college route. In spite of the tech cert being the same theory work and portfolio content as required for nvq in both level 2 and 3.

* You funded your own studies instead of someone else getting a government grant
or financial incentive to take years to train you. (Anyone happen to know how long
the British Gas take to train their A level, 5 GCSE students at their own training center???????)

* You obtained your City&Guilds while working for a living, through dedicated home study and an industry recognised train centre, instead of a local college, with it's waiting lists, one day a week attendance, half terms, Summer and Christmas breaks, Easter holidays and all the spotty faced teenagers you can poke a stick at, that have little or no work ethic yet.

.....Then you will have to take your City&Guilds Technical Certificates level 2 and 3 in Plumbing, your portfolio of training, the Bpec WRAS water regulation Certificate, your part P acreditation your CSCS card and start advertising yourself as self employed.

* You should of started working on your own home while studying, moved on through friends and families homes, then the naighbours for extra experience in between the week long residential training session at the training centres.

* Building a website is one of the requirement of the course, I believe it comes in at section 18 but if you know how already do it anyway.

* Print some cards, flyers, put ads in the local shops and free papers, Thompson Local and yell.com.

* Because of the route you took, paying for your course, you must be working somewhere to pay for the monthly direct debits. Buy tools as you go, you will be surprised how quickly the need for a new one comes up.

* Register with the TAX, the WIAPS, IPHE, Building Regs, various competent person schemes and get that Public Liabilities Insurance mentioned by the tutor earlier. You don't want to be sued for accidently setting fire to a property with your blow lamp and end up losing you tools, your business, your house all because you were un-insured.

* Register with as many trade magazines as you can to keep up with all the latest Tech articles on solar or ground source heating and trade offers on bathroom suites, radiators, bathroom, kitchen and cloakroom taps and powerflush systems.

* While cash flow is low, get yourself trade accounts with your local branch of national suppliers; PTS, Plumbase, Plumb Center, Wickes, B&Q, Screwfix, Pulsar direct etc, etc, etc to name but a few. Pick up supplies, fit them, get paid. A month later get an invoice and pay the supplier, simple.

I'm sure, before you know it, because you put your training to good use and did a good job at every place you worked at, your plumbing jobs start coming in thick and fast and you may have to jack in that other job your doing that pays the finance for your course; if not, keep at it and plumb in the evenings and weekend only.

If your young it's an education, if your older it's an experience. Isn't that what everyone keeps telling you, you need to get on in the trade?

 

[fuzzy]

What friends? Would that be electronic ones or real ones you can see?
Errrr, youve lost me now, is this a quote or your thoughts? Bit longwinded, I got bored half way through, well first few lines if im honest. From what i gather your giving advice on how to get work when you train on Tec Certs only? Pity but that qual will be gone in a few months so its all pointless anyway

 

[rfvpatlttp]

......that qual will be gone in a few months so its all pointless anyway.

Can you qualify that statement please?

 

[fuzzy]

......that qual will be gone in a few months so its all pointless anyway.

Can you qualify that statement please?

Thought it was pretty simple, how about this one.

THERE WILL BE NO TECHNICAL CERTIFICATES FROM JULY 2010, no worky no qualification

 

[kwakerdude911]

i will be honest here
i am still doing a course for plumbing nvq 2
that is the least employers are looking for now as i have looked on a lot of sites
6 weeks to learn thejob aint good
i have learnt the theory over 2 years in my own time and passed them
it can be done if u spend time on it and researching anything u are un sure of
the practicals will be quick but as long as u have the theory u should be ok
then go self employed
and as for gas qualifications
seems a mine filed
as i think u need to have so many hours under your belt working ofr a gas registered company
they dont tell u that -
good luck

 

[rfvpatlttp]

Cheers kwakerdude,

Been plumbing on and off since 1996. My fiancee' at that time, who ran the quality assurance and technical departments of a well known bathrooms and kitchens manufacturing company and I, attended a night school class at the local college to learn how to plumb in a kitchen before renovating and install radiators and pipework for new central heating system in own newly aquired 1930s house. The new boiler was fitted by a CORGI Gas fitter but we fitted the rest, followed by a new bathroom suite a couple months later; staff discount of cause.

As far as the theory goes, been studying City & Guilds 6129 in my own time since 2007, firstly through PlumbingSkills and ATL before the Skills Centre company director stole loans of students cash to fund his gambling habit. Then with Train 4 Trades Skills and ATL once the government, Barclays Partner Finance and T4TS stepped in, took over the blended learning courses in Plumbing and Electrics C&G and NVQ's, so everyone studying with the Cardiff based company could complete their studies and not lose out because of a corrupt <NO SWEARING> in the finance chain.

 

[WHPES]

I am currently on the 6089 course and it's just for the bit of paper at the end. I am a fully qualified engineer and the sort of thing covered in the course I have been doing for years albeit on a larger scale.

I can see quite easily how persons new to the trade without any experience in plumbing or a engineering background can fail to grasp and understand the principles or methods used. Sometimes I see them doing something a certain way just because they have been taught it and they do not realise WHY it is done that way.

I learnt about system design by actually calculating water flow rates, pump curves, heat transfer rates through different materials and different thicknesses. On larger systems you have to take into account and calculate resistance to water flow from every bend and restriction. I could, if necessary take a radiator from a shelf, measure it, work out how much water goes is in it and actually calculate its output from first principles. This sort of work is the only way that industrial heating and process systems can be designed.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that plumbers should be able to do those calculations but people on the short courses need to understand more the principles and the physics behind the system design.

As a engineer I come across so many badly designed systems from an engineering perspective and I can tell very quickly a well designed system when I see it.

I have a few times been called to look at commercial systems where someone with insufficient expeience has been on it and got out of their depth. You are better to walk away from a job which is beyond you than to "have a go".

 

[fuzzy]

I am currently on the 6089 course and it's just for the bit of paper at the end. I am a fully qualified engineer and the sort of thing covered in the course I have been doing for years albeit on a larger scale.

I can see quite easily how persons new to the trade without any experience in plumbing or a engineering background can fail to grasp and understand the principles or methods used. Sometimes I see them doing something a certain way just because they have been taught it and they do not realise WHY it is done that way.

I learnt about system design by actually calculating water flow rates, pump curves, heat transfer rates through different materials and different thicknesses. On larger systems you have to take into account and calculate resistance to water flow from every bend and restriction. I could, if necessary take a radiator from a shelf, measure it, work out how much water goes is in it and actually calculate its output from first principles. This sort of work is the only way that industrial heating and process systems can be designed.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that plumbers should be able to do those calculations but people on the short courses need to understand more the principles and the physics behind the system design.

As a engineer I come across so many badly designed systems from an engineering perspective and I can tell very quickly a well designed system when I see it.

I have a few times been called to look at commercial systems where someone with insufficient expeience has been on it and got out of their depth. You are better to walk away from a job which is beyond you than to "have a go".

I have come across newbies into the trade doing jobs that are beyond them only to qoute that they are learning each time. I wouldnt be impressed if somebody learnt on my job that i was paying for!
I think your advice on the principles is spot on. you need to know why not just how to! That is the difference between a tradesman and a 'mate'.

 

[WHPES]

If you come to something new to you and have no experience in it, but have background knowledge, you can get a tape measure, calculator, textbook, pen and paper and work out what's going on, what to use and how to do the task.

You can always tell my work as I use a lot of swept bends, swept tees etc in my larger circuits and avoid restrictions as much as possible. Maybe you think it's a bit OTT but all my visible nut heads and screw slots line up at the same angle. Looks neat for anyone looking. I worked with Navy guys for a while and that is where I picked up that habit as they are very particular about the appearance of finished jobs.

 

[student plumber]

I can see quite easily how persons new to the trade without any experience in plumbing or a engineering background can fail to grasp and understand the principles or methods used. Sometimes I see them doing something a certain way just because they have been taught it and they do not realise WHY it is done that way.

I learnt about system design by actually calculating water flow rates, pump curves, heat transfer rates through different materials and different thicknesses. On larger systems you have to take into account and calculate resistance to water flow from every bend and restriction. I could, if necessary take a radiator from a shelf, measure it, work out how much water goes is in it and actually calculate its output from first principles. This sort of work is the only way that industrial heating and process systems can be designed.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that plumbers should be able to do those calculations but people on the short courses need to understand more the principles and the physics behind the system design.

-----------------------------------------

I agree, I'm on one of these courses and there's methods in the coursework and 3D software, but I figured there has to be more than that. I'm thinking if you have pipe and you take the outside measurement but it's 1mm wall you're accounting for water that isn't there, or an immersion heater but how much element is in there or is that all ready accounted for, or am I a bit off track there.

When I go for practical I want to try as many methods in an area as possible e.g. pipe bending, not just what's in the book. I've been working in sheet metal and microns make a lot of difference. The method for bending I cut a tube to length first then bend, I worked out how much I gained before hand, and they came out pretty much the same (not a very accurate bender) and very quickly. I always try and look deeper I would be very interested to hear more.

 

[Joanna]

Tells me ur on the team. Only 1 of about a thousand sad stories with such positivity for t4ts Ive come across. Wonder how much ur getting to sing their praises. All proffesionals warn of these expensive waste of time bull**** courses, gets no1 anywhere but in debt. GET A GRIP COZ UR NOT FOOLIN ANY 1 ESP ME!

 

[heinz57]

Whether you've got a million bits of paper that say your a genious or not dont mean dic#. All any employer will see is whether you can do the job or not, thats pretty much all they care about. If your face fits, you get along with the rest of the crew/customers then great. People worry too much about 6129 and 5817 or r2 fuc~ing d2!!!! The only bits of paper you should be worried about are gassafe, part -p and un-vented. As for trade skills, for most people there a complete rip off, waste of time. Being self employed is an absolute nightmare, especially while doing it alone, you have to be a tradesman, accountant, mechanic, business manager, lawyer, ad-man and all at the same time. When you get home from work you spend frigging hours doing paperwork, it aint easy. When you go for an interview stop flapping about your 6185 or your c3p0, tell the boss your comming to work for him for a weeks fuc#ing trial, at the end of the week when you've got the job, problem solved!!!!! Works for me.

 

[bobby]

i just started the course and feel it has something to offer yes its expensive but hopefully it will be money well spent i know qualifications dont mean a thing without practical experience but you have to start somewhere! i'll keep posting throughout the course with an honest opinion!so wish me luck!!!

 

[Karl Walker]

I started the T4TS Plumbing Course about 2 months ago.. I am finding it very interesting and think that it is a really involved trade to learn.
But i am under no illusions that this will be easy or a quick way into a high paying career reguardless of the sales pitch that was given.
I spoke to a Tutor or a TA this morning they confirmed that i would be doing my Practical @ Luton based on the course that i was doing.
Its going to take time and i will have to give up evenings and weekends if i have to to get the necessary experiance required to competently goto a job on my own and be let loose on someone's home.
Yes its alot of money but think about it in the long run.

What will you achieve by investing money in yourself?

Ive been reading alot of the posts on this forum and i too still have doubts, I am doing this course to try and get me from between a rock and a hard place (a career that seems to be going no where despite been doing it for 7 years). end of the day no one can take the qualifications away from me.

Also do what is right for you! don't sign up if you don't think that you will be able to put in the required time.

 

[marksparky]

Hello Karl...Its not all about the time and the effort that you put into these training courses..its all about what you get out of it at the end....be it a tech certification..an OCN ..or a step towards an NVQ.. whatever load of crap you ve been sold....I hope you researched it all before signing up...cos I didn,t and I got stung for £4000...bringing home a 6022 and 6032..which does nt mean anything in the trade....yeah I got my water regs Qualification but it does nt matter with those type of City and Guilds awards.....

 

[fuzzy]

wots the 6022 and 6032, never heard of em?

 

[Karl Walker]

City & Guilds 6022 Domestic Copper Installer certificate
City & Guilds 6032 Sanitary Accommodation certificate
2 day weekend assessment only course
Previous plumbing experience mandatory
Stand alone qualification not part of the NVQ
Does not qualify the person as a plumber with an NVQ
1 practical and 1 written test per certificate
Information from City & Guilds 6022 And City & Guilds 6032 Plumbing Course in York - PPL Training

 

[Karl Walker]

Sorry to hear that Mark.

TBH i didn't do much research. I had the questions answered that I had over the phone. I asked what i would be doing i.e where and when. what qualifications i would get and how long the average person takes to complete the course.

Im doing the C&G 6129 L2 & L3. Im going to call local plumbing companys looking for someone to take me on to show me how to be a competent reliable plumber. And to see how to properly fault find system problems, rather than text book faults 1 problem 1 solution thats all you need to know.

I will continue to post based on my views and outcomes of this course and how it has or hasn't worked for me and if it works out for me. I have no problem telling anyone thatreads these post if its a scam or not, my opinion so far is not.

Regards

 

[marksparky]

Hi Karl

When I signed up for my course I was told and assured that the qualifications that I would recieve would be at NVQ level...They are just credits towards an NVQ....My qualifications are a step below yours..I would nt like to see you ripped off in any way and I hope you are aware of this information below.....

After successful completion of the 6129 students often go on to complete the City & Guilds 6089 NVQ while working as a self-employed plumber or for a plumbing company.

Basically paying a large sum of money for just a step in the right direction..

regards Mark

 

[fuzzy]

they not worth much then?

 

[Dawny]

Ok.....having only NOW heard about this train for trade SCAM business i'm very worried...signed up (enrolled) yesterday...paid my £100 enrollment fee, signed up for the NVQ level 3 course at £5700..i'm REALLY concerned...WILL i get the qualification's i need? although i want to be able to get the practical experiance while doing this course, i know it's a lot of money but as a mum of young twins i can't afford the childcare fee's for college. SOMEONE MUST have something good to say about this? i'm getting very worried that i have made a big mistake. (saw them advertised on TV by the way)

 

[Gray0689]

Ok.....having only NOW heard about this train for trade SCAM business i'm very worried...signed up (enrolled) yesterday...paid my £100 enrollment fee, signed up for the NVQ level 3 course at £5700..i'm REALLY concerned...WILL i get the qualification's i need? although i want to be able to get the practical experiance while doing this course, i know it's a lot of money but as a mum of young twins i can't afford the childcare fee's for college. SOMEONE MUST have something good to say about this? i'm getting very worried that i have made a big mistake. (saw them advertised on TV by the way)

These course are what they are you will probably get your 6129
But for nvq 2 and 3 you will have to be working as they are mostly site visites to see your work
I don't know how they can get around this
But in a real world like a lot have said on this forum if you have not got the experiance you will not get a job
Plumbing is a hard job you won't learn it all from books you need to be doing it day in day out to learn
£5700 is a lot of money if you can't afford it I don't know where you come from but I'd personally recomend you don't waste your hard earned money
If you realy want to be a plumber go to your local collage see what courses they do try basic plumbing course it you like it carry on and try to get an apprentice with a local firm it won't be easy in today's climate but you can only try
I'd hate to see anyone ripped off but especially a mother
All the best
Gray

 

[stecunners]

cancel cancel cancel...phone them and tell them you have changed your mind,write to them and send it recorded delivery,once barclays partner finance pay them 5770 you will never be able to get out of the agreement....you only get a week to cool off so do it now,trust me i have tried everyhing to cancel but i cant get out of it and they WILL let you down big time.....good luck

 

[robdavis]

Ok.....having only NOW heard about this train for trade SCAM business i'm very worried...signed up (enrolled) yesterday...paid my £100 enrollment fee, signed up for the NVQ level 3 course at £5700..i'm REALLY concerned...WILL i get the qualification's i need? although i want to be able to get the practical experiance while doing this course, i know it's a lot of money but as a mum of young twins i can't afford the childcare fee's for college. SOMEONE MUST have something good to say about this? i'm getting very worried that i have made a big mistake. (saw them advertised on TV by the way)

Hi,

I know how you feel, I have two kids of my own and it was imprative that I made the right choices. I cannot take time off to go to college either and I signed up to this course.

It's not a scam. They really will get you qualified to the right level. I fouind the payments reasonable, I pay £80 a month, and no interest is added.

What people are complaining about mainly is that when you finish, employers may be dubious of your skills because you didn't do it the traditional way.

However! I personally think that if you work hard, learn the trade, practice as much as you can and pass your exams you would be as good as someone who went through an apprenticeship. (Plus I imagine you will be more passionate to succeed).

It's a combination of the lack of work out there and the smeared reputation of many 'fast track' courses out there which give people the willies.

It of course is up to you what you want to do.

I'm nearly ready for week 3 and 4 which is about half way through I guess. I'm really enjoying it. I can't complain: There's lots of competitions on where you can win substantial amounts of money, you get tool-kit vouchers (mine were worth £200 from Rothenberger) the practical training is well structured and intensive, the modules are well written and informative, tutors are available if you have any questions and you get to study at your own pace.

It's up to you what you do with it after you finish, if you are smart and get your name out there effectively, what is stoping you from succeeding?

I have found, after reading a lot of these forums and threads, that most people call 'scam' because they aren't really sure they want to be a plumber and then can't get their money back or because theres loads of time-served plumbers scaring everyone that the certificates aren't worth anything. (experience is most valuable)

I disagree that the certificates aren't worth anything. This course really is hard to get through and the exams are not easy. They make you learn properly. I have completed my water regs, and half of the level 2 cert exams and I really had to know my stuff to pass them. In fact, I almost feel ready to get out there now.

 

[Backboiler]

Well said Rob. I completed my 6129 last April and I was well impressed with everything from the theory to the practical. Look as it as a sound foundation to furthering your desire.

 

[plumbobjohnson]

I am glad I found this thread particularly because I first registered to reply to another thread on the forum from someone who says their name is joanna calling t4ts a scam. I have seen lots of similar postings on various boards and forums as the starter to new threads all using similar phrases. Most, I reckon are nothing more than spoof postings from people with an agenda, maybe even a bit of stirring from rival companies. My experiences with this company (got nvq2, into gas on nvq3) have been totally different from the impressions given by these posters. The stuff I read and the claims made are just idiotic. Take a look at some of them and ask yourselves "is that right or might they just be less bright than they thought they were or just looking for an excuse to back out because money got tighter?"
Check them out and make your own mind up on the validity but base it on the facts. The company responds to enquiries so someone must have requested details either from a flyer, tv advert, jobsearch site or jobcentre. I found them on totaljobs. Then they will have had a phone call to check if enquiry genuine and a few questions are asked before deciding if an appointment is needed to give details of course and to check if the person is suitable. At the interview stage I was asked all sorts of questions about my motivations and reasons to want to be a plumber, what i was doing, looking for workwise, what my plans were if i got the course and a good amount of detail to make sure i really wanted to change my direction in life by retraining. Then the guy explained how the studies were done so i could decide if the training methods suited me. I saw a dvd showing me the facilities and the 3d software. Then, when I said it looked right for me he explained prices and explained how the funding worked. I knew how much in total, at zero percent, how much a month and over how long. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. When i agreed to go ahead (two days later after researching) I gave details for a credit search but since i was unemployed i couldnt expect a main bank to help so i was accepted by another provider who still took me on to help me even though my rating was fairly poor. Couldnt have done it otherwise and certainly not in one go. Paid my registration fee of £100 and got my course starter. Havent looked back, good support, easy way to get the same qualifications as college but to nvq3 which they dont do at a normal college. NO CON NO SCAM

 

[plumbobjohnson]

Did all the parts of 6129 but had to take my time over it because i got a job that made it difficult to get time off. I go to Southampton, so far its taken me just over a year but thats cos i had to take the job and recover some income for the family's sake. Not going to get into a long thread about the company, just so fed up seeing people knock it when it works well for me, and I know most of the whingers are probably just people struggling to do the theory looking for an excuse to get out of the finance. Its hard to do in parts but giving up and blaming or defaming others for their own failure just seems stupid. If it was dodgy why would Barclays be dealing with them? Aren't they ofsted inspected too? The cdf company who did my funding have to be registered with the fsa (I checked their registration) so as far as I am concerned it all seems to be exactly as I was told. The agent I saw told me everything I wanted to know and I even have his contact number and spoke to him twice with questions. Maybe the problem for others is seeing an agent who didnt explain things as well as my bloke did but I am happy with how its going. Everybody thinking of doing the course should maybe ask loads of questions like I did to make sure they understand everything first. Make your own minds up and look into the real reasons behind some of those complaints as most look a bit dubious and planted. That other thread looks that way.

Anyway thats me done, rant over. Whoever you go with good luck.

 

[truemanufan]

I am also with t4ts and think they have been amazin! No problems like all these old school people on here avin a good old whinge about it! I think I have learnt an awful lot at my own pace and able to learn practically at my own pace to! Doing all of this while holding down a full time job too so put the hours in and it will pay off!

 

[truemanufan]

Good luck to all doin courses like these ones!

 

[heinz57]

Good luck trying to find a job in this climate once you all finish ya 20 day training courses, try explaining to an employer while your better than a bloke who's done a 3 year hands on apprenticeship.

 

[truemanufan]

Cheers heinz it's hard enough to get on with it without people like u always putting downer on things! We can't all afford to retrain full time!

 

[plumbobjohnson]

Hey Heinz, is 57 your IQ?

Our training includes a comprehensive section of business training so we dont have to look for a job, or rely on others. The purpose is to get us starting our own business by being self employed. You obviously know nothing about the course or what it involves. Sorry, but your downer attitude is typical, maybe your life is negative but keep it to yourself eh?

To some the pint pot is half full, to some its half empty but negative people like you seem to just want to take away the pot from others.

 

[plumbobjohnson]

And Mr Neggy Heinz, the course is based over 11 weeks of full on practical after a very comprehensive theory training. WE learn how to avoid making mistakes by learning not just how to do it properly, but also by learning all of the potential mistakes and their consequences so we dont make them in the first place. Your 3 year hands on guys get 3 years of learning from their mistakes in the customers homes with most of the theory being given by the guys they work with, thats not necessarily a high standard of training; thats less than reassuring isnt it. That 3 years is mostly spent as slave labour anyway, doing the grunt work with very little real training except for the college nvq2 day release so its nothing to boast about. Very 1970's "good enough for my father and his father" attitude. New standards and new techniques seem to have left you behind somewhat but nevermind. If you dont properly understand it your opinion is not really worth considering in the greater scheme of things.