Train 4 Trade Skills

[andymc]

Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

Im enjoying it so far, but im sticking through until the end, it'll take a few years to get through by most people, but training at centre is quality.

 

[stecunners]

Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

im doing the t4ts at the moment,getting time to do the practicals is my problem.Been on the course for a year but only managed the first two weeks at featherstone..Will be april before i can do the next fortnight.looking forward to it,heating and part p electrical..Got my water regs card, but it doesnt seem much for one years study..but at least i have a job and can complete the course no matter how long it lasts...

 

[lewis]

Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

hi all, my other half signed up for t4ts in oct 08.
I'm a bit concered that we are paying £5770 for a plumbing course (£135 per month over 42mnths) and others have said they are paying in the region of £3000-£4000.
are there different types of plumbing course?
Anyway after paying for a year we stopped our direct debt yesterday as we also feel we were pushed into this course. the course advisor (salesman) turned up we were just expecting a bit of advise but we were not in anyway prepared for the hard sales pitch we got.
We are a young family with two small children we dont have alot of money.
This salesman started saying how our lives would be like this forever and this was our final chance to do something to make life easier. HE ASKED US TO CONVINCE HIM WE WERE SUITABLE FOR OUR PLACE ON THE Course, and that Places were limited and if we didnt take this place he would offer it to someone else. It felt like he was not going to leave unless we signed up.
Anyway we believed him like you do in the moment and also for the next few weeks as he got us hyped up for it.
A year on and the course is not anything like he promised. All the things others have said about. Books being wrong, training centres to far away.
needless to say we never heard from him or t4ts again.

I contacted a soliciter who advised us to contact the office of fair trading as they do take an interest in complaints about distance learning.
He also said to join forces with others who feel the same and involvment from oft may help in negotiations to try and end the contract.
also watchdog has featured t4ts for similar reasons.

so anyone who wants to join forces and send letters or emails of complaint to oft about how they have been mislead or pressured into these courses this would be a great help to me and each of us who feel the same. thanks

 

[joe brown]

Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

HE ASKED US TO CONVINCE HIM WE WERE SUITABLE FOR OUR PLACE ON THE Course, and that Places were limited and if we didnt take this place he would offer it to someone else. It felt like he was not going to leave unless we signed up.

Sounds typical, I had the exact same when i enquired about a comperteach couse, All he wanted was his commision. He insisted we paid £300 there and then and was even demanding he drove us to a cash machine. he said we dont take everyone on and made it feel like an interview. Reverse phsycology i think. Anyway i told him straight not a chance!!

Im currently at college now doing plumbing and heating 6129 city and guilds , It cost me £700 .

I could of got it for £135 if i had no other qualifications under the goverments new train to gain. Because i already had an nvq i had to pay the full rate.

I was on the college waiting list for 3 and a half years though.Im still on another waiting list.

The fact of the matter is plumbing is nothing like what we all expect when we first get involved from what i have now learnt.

Its a hard trade to get into. You will never walk into work after completeing your course and you will be lucky to earn £65,000 after the first 4 years let alone the first year.

 

[rfvpatlttp]

Re: train 4 trade skills scam

I dont know what to say ?

i recentley put a post up asking people to coment on the plumbing trade,
if we as a colective can disprove the statments the training companys make we can then get out of our contracts and cancel our courses, this would mean not having to pay the monthly £110 but it dosnt mean we can get our money back which we have paid already.

so the things we have to prove are

• 30 000 to 70 000 job prospects
• promise of plumbing trade growth
• certificates which are recognised by employers or the trade

i think you guys get the picture, most of these points iv found out above but i still cant disprove that the trade is shrinking instead of growing.
my post has had about 120 views and only 6 replys looks like the plumbing comunity dosnt want to tell us exactly what happening.

have a look at the thread and write a coment and if you know of people that have finished courses and cant get work get them to write a coment and what their experiance has been like while doing the course and if they got work after the course.

we going to need a lot of people and a lot of replys before we can take this further and win our money back and the only way to do it is to stick together.

this is the thread.

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/5792-plumbing-trade-slowing-down-growing.html

let me know what you think

No thanks, I'm more than happy to complete the the course I am paying for. Otherwise what would be the point?
Would you buy a new car and leave it on your drive way, never driving it because someone told you it was a ****e model?
Would you go for a meal at that new asian place, order your meal then leave when it arrives, having paid for it on the way out without touching it because you were affraid it may include dog, snake, Rat or something else you wouldn't want to try?
Would you buy a new carpet then leave it rolled up on the stairs for two years because you can't be ar*ed to fit the underlay and gripper?

ATL training is the dogs watsits and the course work sent by T4TS is up to date and the same as that for part time, full time, college , apprentice and day release.
C&G 6129 Tech Cert in Plumbing level 2 and level 3 NVQ level 2 and level 3. Unvented hot water Cert Bpec WRAS water regulations and a CSCS card. Now if after all that you still can't find a plumbing firm to employ you go self employed and get some experience.

 

[rfvpatlttp]

Re: T4TS, have I made the biggest mistake ever???

Its a hard trade to get into. You will never walk into work after completeing your course and you will be lucky to earn £65,000 after the first 4 years let alone the first year.

That's ok, you won't have to register for VAT then.

 

[stecunners]

hi,,i have been doing the course for over a year, been on 1 practical,and got to tma 29...i have wrote to T4TS and told them i am cancelling the course....i was lied to by the rep.

he said............

i will be working as a plumber in 10 months........LIE
I will receive a (free) tool kit...........................LIE
the practical side is a couple of weeks not six....LIE
there is a shortage of plumbers in the uk...........LIE
i will walk into a job when i complete the course.LIE
there is a training centre in glasgow.................LIE
The virtual reality software is fantastic.............LIE

I know the glasgow thing doesnt affect me,but there were a lot of scottish guys at the training centre who were well p*ssed off,but how else would they get scottish guys to sign up.

The practicals cant start until you have paid so much off the fees,so how am i supposed to complete the course in 10 months.
The qualifications you end up with dont really add up to much,i found this out when ringing a few local plumbing companys,,they want years on the job not a piece of paper with city and guilds on it.......

the virtual house is crap, i spent ages trying to finish the first one and kept failing because i hadnt put the lid back on the cwsc,turns out its a software glitch and i had to restart and do it all over again....

So i have made up my mind to end it now rather than keep forking out £135 a month for nothing much in the end....
i believe that when you sign the contract it is legally binding,but if the rep would have told less lies it wouldnt have sounded so promising and i wouldnt have signed up in the first place...

 

[Woot]

I foolishly signed up to a distance course by Train4TradeSkills (Metropolitan International Schools Limited. I paid £100 deposit by credit card with £5670 remaining to pay by loan financed by Barclays Partner Finance. The salesman said I would be able to train at an ATL centre in Bristol but when I phoned ATL they said they did not have one there. After studying the small print and finding out they have been investigated by BBC Watchdog and Inside Out under their SkillsTrain name I decided to cancel within the legal "cooling off" period. I have canceled the loan with BPF sucessfully, but have not had any adequate response from T4TS after two weeks despite canceling the course within 3 days by recorded mail with follow up letters by recorded and special delivery. I believe I am covered by The Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumers Home or Place of Work etc Regulations 2008 and the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Train4TradeSkills just rudely dismiss me when I phone them, and will not reply to any of my letters sent by recorded delivery.

 

[REDSAW]

hi,,i have been doing the course for over a year, been on 1 practical,and got to tma 29...i have wrote to T4TS and told them i am cancelling the course....i was lied to by the rep.

he said............

i will be working as a plumber in 10 months........LIE
I will receive a (free) tool kit...........................LIE
the practical side is a couple of weeks not six....LIE
there is a shortage of plumbers in the uk...........LIE
i will walk into a job when i complete the course.LIE
there is a training centre in glasgow.................LIE
The virtual reality software is fantastic.............LIE

I know the glasgow thing doesnt affect me,but there were a lot of scottish guys at the training centre who were well p*ssed off,but how else would they get scottish guys to sign up.

The practicals cant start until you have paid so much off the fees,so how am i supposed to complete the course in 10 months.
The qualifications you end up with dont really add up to much,i found this out when ringing a few local plumbing companys,,they want years on the job not a piece of paper with city and guilds on it.......

the virtual house is crap, i spent ages trying to finish the first one and kept failing because i hadnt put the lid back on the cwsc,turns out its a software glitch and i had to restart and do it all over again....

So i have made up my mind to end it now rather than keep forking out £135 a month for nothing much in the end....
i believe that when you sign the contract it is legally binding,but if the rep would have told less lies it wouldnt have sounded so promising and i wouldnt have signed up in the first place...

so whats the problem?.
is it not for you, or are you struggling to get the grasp of things?.
i have not got anything to do with these companies, but i do know that they can be done in 6 months whilst in a job.
i suppose they told you you will earn £70,0000 a year too, delivered by 50 virgins on your birthday each year, like all sales men from all courses do?.
truth is after one year on the course, your cooling of period has well expired me thinks.
all you have done is give them a get out of 'training you' clause, by telling them to stuff it whilst they keep all the money that you have paid. yes, they allready have it, as it is the bank you now owe. and by people i know who have tried this approch, well, they are still paying monthly.
my advice is to stick at it, hit it hard and get it done. either way to do or not to do, at the end of the day it was your choice.

I foolishly signed up to a distance course by Train4TradeSkills (Metropolitan International Schools Limited. I paid £100 deposit by credit card with £5670 remaining to pay by loan financed by Barclays Partner Finance. The salesman said I would be able to train at an ATL centre in Bristol but when I phoned ATL they said they did not have one there. After studying the small print and finding out they have been investigated by BBC Watchdog and Inside Out under their SkillsTrain name I decided to cancel within the legal "cooling off" period. I have canceled the loan with BPF sucessfully, but have not had any adequate response from T4TS after two weeks despite canceling the course within 3 days by recorded mail with follow up letters by recorded and special delivery. I believe I am covered by The Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumers Home or Place of Work etc Regulations 2008 and the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Train4TradeSkills just rudely dismiss me when I phone them, and will not reply to any of my letters sent by recorded delivery.

don't quite understand what you are saying?.
are you complaining about saving £5,750 or loosing £100????????????
personally i think the press have put the willies up you, as far as i know t4tskills is no worse nor no better than any other training provider out there.
so based on that i take it you wont be looking at getting into plumbing then?.
what will you be looking at doing?.

 

[REDSAW]

then i whould take the loss of £100 on the chin, you will save that in transport anyhow providing thats all it will cost you. good luck.

 

[Woot]

don't quite understand what you are saying?.
are you complaining about saving £5,750 or loosing £100????????????
personally i think the press have put the willies up you, as far as i know t4tskills is no worse nor no better than any other training provider out there.
so based on that i take it you wont be looking at getting into plumbing then?.
what will you be looking at doing?.

The main problem was the salesman lying, saying I could do training in Bristol, when in fact their training centres are as far away as Leeds. If I knew that I would not have signed. I am looking at training centres nearer home, so far have found one in Holsworthy, Devon, and also Plymouth and Exeter. Will do some proper research into their courses, will not sign for anything that has a credit agreement attached to it, and will study the small print and find some people who have done their courses to see how they got on.

then i whould take the loss of £100 on the chin, you will save that in transport anyhow providing thats all it will cost you. good luck.

Thanks RedSaw34, good advice, hopefully I've learnt my lesson now and will find a more suitable course.

Sorry, messed up my edit, this post was originally before previous post.

 

[david williams]

hrere is no shortage of plumbers in england,there is a glut of half to poorly trained want to be plumbers,this not a poor reflection of these people, it is proof that the people who run the plumbing industry just do not care,no matter what you belive you can not be a " master plumber" in 12 weeks as advertised,the plumbing industry great days are over,we are inundated with train fast and give us your money companies.web sites to get you work ,all they do is drive down your price,they all say they only pass 3 numbers on to the custermer butyou will never know if they passed on 100 numbers,and most do.dont look to the goverment to help,there to busy stealing off of us to care,most of the qualifications c@g bpec etc are now not worth the paper they are printed on

 

[fuzzy]

I think the message that there is no shortage of plumbers, the rates are not that high, the traning is slow and expensive, its a hard trade to learn etc etc is slowly getting out there.
Some people set their heart on it and after knowing all the draw backs still want to spend alot of money to train then good luck too them, i dont mind someone taking their time, paying their money, using a private prvider etc if thats what they want, good luck to them.
Thing is, there are people who dont understand all the above and sign up for a course that doesnt offer them what they need and its too late when they realise.
Who do we blame? the providers for trying to make money, the salesmen for trying to earn a living, the courses that are designed to enable candidates to train without an apprenticeship, the sector skillss council and C&G's for signing up 1,000s when they know they wont get jobs?
IMO- the message above needs to get out, i have NO problem with anyone learning if they know the facts, the problem is the facts ae not out there and they should be. I probably blame 'the man in the pub' who says 'get a job as a plumber and you will make a fortune', people sign up without investigating the situation and find out too late. Until the message gets to the know it all in the pub that plumbers dont make 1,000s or offer a job for life the situation wil continue.
I know a young man who was told by friends and family 'get on a plumbing course and you will NEVER be out of work' After 3 years of college and over 150 applications at local plumbing companies he has never had even 1 day of plumbing work. he said his replies if he got any just said they are unindated with apps from people with only Tec Certs 6129s and they dont even consider them anymore.
Did everyone know that the TC's are going and soon there will be no plumb qual without a job? like it used to be? when we trained a few groups of aprentices at a time there were enough plumbers to go round, only because in the 80s it took a dive we ended up in this position, now we have overtrained, boom and bust, WILL WE EVER LEARN??????
Sorry iv mde several different points there

 

[rfvpatlttp]

[/QUOTE] he said his replies if he got any just said they are unindated with apps from people with only Tec Certs 6129s and they dont even consider them anymore.
[/QUOTE]


NHS Jobs. Maudsley Hospital Denmark Hill London. Looking for Multiskilled Maintenance Technician (Fitter/Plumber)

Now here's the thing:

MUST HAVE C&G LEVEL 2 IN PLUMBING.

That'll be the 6129 then!


[/QUOTE]
I am looking at training centres nearer home, so far have found one in Holsworthy, Devon, and also Plymouth and Exeter. Will do some proper research into their courses, will not sign for anything that has a credit agreement attached to it, and will study the small print and find some people who have done their courses to see how they got on.[/QUOTE]


I know some one doing the C&G course with the one in Holsworthy.

The course work content is vertually identical to that of T4TS but he has to complete all or the first set or modules before Posting everything back, that's all his test papers and course folder to London to get it marked.
Who trusts the Post Office not to lose it all?
They have no online training, no tutors to email for back up, no TMA's at the end of each section THAN CAN BE EMAILED to work through and the Bpec WRAS Water Reg's is not included in the price but can be added on for a fee.

He chose Holsworthy because it was closer to home but having seen the course material from T4TS from me he wishes he had gone with them and put up with the travel and week long stays at ATL in Southampton.

For the guy earlier looking to train near Bristol, the Apprenticeship Training Limited centre at Hedge End would be the place to do your practicals not Leeds.

BUT.... It's still your choice.

 

[fuzzy]

he said his replies if he got any just said they are unindated with apps from people with only Tec Certs 6129s and they dont even consider them anymore.
[/QUOTE]


NHS Jobs. Maudsley Hospital Denmark Hill London. Looking for Multiskilled Maintenance Technician (Fitter/Plumber)

Now here's the thing:

MUST HAVE C&G LEVEL 2 IN PLUMBING.

That'll be the 6129 then!


[/QUOTE]
I am looking at training centres nearer home, so far have found one in Holsworthy, Devon, and also Plymouth and Exeter. Will do some proper research into their courses, will not sign for anything that has a credit agreement attached to it, and will study the small print and find some people who have done their courses to see how they got on.[/QUOTE]


I know some one doing the C&G course with the one in Holsworthy.

The course work content is vertually identical to that of T4TS but he has to complete all or the first set or modules before Posting everything back, that's all his test papers and course folder to London to get it marked.
Who trusts the Post Office not to lose it all?
They have no online training, no tutors to email for back up, no TMA's at the end of each section THAN CAN BE EMAILED to work through and the Bpec WRAS Water Reg's is not included in the price but can be added on for a fee.

He chose Holsworthy because it was closer to home but having seen the course material from T4TS from me he wishes he had gone with them and put up with the travel and week long stays at ATL in Southampton.

For the guy earlier looking to train near Bristol, the Apprenticeship Training Limited centre at Hedge End would be the place to do your practicals not Leeds.

BUT.... It's still your choice.[/QUOTE]


How do you know they will consider a 6129 as a level2 in plumbing? The 6129 is only considered by the sector skills council for building services as a part qualification. to say its a L2 is misleading many companies who dont realise its not the full qual such as the NVQ 6089 and only find out the short comings of the candidate when its to late. As such, now many companies have realised and dont even consider the 6129 anymore. These may accept it or they may not, probably comes down to how much expereince the candidate has got when applying. if 50 apply and the interviewer knows what quals are what a new entrant with only a 6129 will be at the bottom of the pile. I have spoke to so many who have a 6129 and NEVER EVER worked in plumbing because they cannot get a job. there will always be exceptions.
Because of the problems i have written, the new quals have dropped all tech certs(6129)s nd all that wlll be available will be full NVQs although they will becalled diplomas

 

[simondjuk]

Well im not impressed with Train4 Trade

I completed Module 13 in late September and Id not heard anything by early January so I phoned them up to find out what was happening.

The woman on the phone said 'our system hasnt triggered so thats why you havent been put through to Practical Training' This is the third time that the 'not been triggered' escuse has been used. (First and Second were the next set of modules books)

Anyway to cut a long story short, ive now been told that the earliest Practical Training I can attend is in...May! Thats 8 months since I submitted Module 13. So basically im paying for 8 months of course that i cant progress any further on.

I think thats very unfair that their system hasnt 'triggered' but im still expected to carry on as normal.

Well, there will be a letter of complaint going to them in the next few days.

Just to add and if anyone knows, is there a Training Centre in Wakefield? - I was told there was and now im doubting that info.

 

[plumbitearth]

The training centre's are in Southampton and Leeds mate, not been to Leeds but i can say Southampton is excellent, the only problem is the travel !!!!!!

 

[andymc]

yeah the Leeds one is in Wakefield, done my first 2 weeks there, cant fault the training, surprised by how much stuff we got through, looking forward to my next 2 weeks.
I had to travel from Glasgow but got travel and accomodation money back.

 

[rfvpatlttp]

From Learnatrade.co.uk

Employment opportunities in the construction and building industry

Question.
What qualification do you need to work as a plumber in the UK?

Answer.
None!

If you want to be a plumber, get yourself a van, a bag of tools, contact your local tax office and register as a self employed person, (click the link for more information) take out a Public liability insurance policy, and you're a plumber.
The trouble is, there are a lot of cowboys out there who have done exactly that!
But you're not a cowboy, becase you've had training!

So, if you want to get plumbing work.... and assuming you have the basic practical skills after completing a year at college, there are two ways of going about it.
First way is to be an employee working for somebody. Go to the job centre - buy the local paper every day and look for plumbing jobs - ring around places looking for maintenence plumbers such as hospitals, local council, that kind of thing. DON'T TELL THEM YOU'RE A TRAINEE!! There are so many crap plumbers out there that with your training, you are an expert!!
September to May is the best time to get work in the plumbing industry.
Everything dies in the summer time - customers on holiday - nothing breaking down - it's a famine out there!! But when October comes, and the cold weather kicks in.... It's showtime!! This is especially so for the next section of this information.
The second approach is to do those things I've mentioned above about becoming a self employed plumber, then open up the yellow pages to 'Plumbers' - phone up the companies advertising there, tell them you're a plumber, and I can almost guarantee that you will soon get work - especially if you live in or around London. You will need a van of your own to do this kind of work. Plus, of course, you can do it at times to suit yourself. Just do weekends and evenings until you get the confidence to go for it full time.
That's the kind of work I did for years, and I loved every minute of it!
It's all working self employed. They get the work, which is all emergency call out repair work, you go and do it, and you split the labour charges 50/50. You might think that's a bit of a bummer if you're doing all the work while they sit in the office. But it's worth it. They will be paying a fortune in advertising, answering the telephones, dealing with the crap the customers throw up at them, and doing all the admin stuff.
Be warned though, like I said a little earlier, it's always quiet on the repair work in the summer months. Lots of sitting about in your van waiting for things to happen. And it's not a nine to five job either.. You may get called out at all hours of the day or night to deal with emergencies. The thing is with this kind of work, is that you're on your own. It's all down to you to carry out the repair with no back up! But.. and I don't want to sound cynical here. If you screw up, look upon it as good experience and learn from it.
The other good thing about this kind of work is that you can make absolute mega-bucks!

Taking a chance:

One of my students a few years ago, (David, mature student in his 50s) only did nine months of the first year at college and didn't get a qualification at that time.
What he did, was those things I mentioned above re: self employment, but instead of approaching yellow page plumbing companies he put an ad in the local paper.... When he first started I was getting a HELP ME! call off him every couple of days. Once he was up and running, he went back to college and finally did get a qualification. Now he's working his nuts off and employing people!
When you're looking to make such a massive change in your life, sometimes you have to get out there and hustle.
So there you go,​

 

[fuzzy]

All trades look to secure their respect and history of high skills by ensuring we keep up high standards and therefore the respect of clients and people paying money for the skills. Then a 'teacher' comes on here and advises people to set up as a plumber with little or no training????

'Your not a cowboy, youve been to college for a year' All those who have completed a traditional apprenticeship and/or trained for years gaining full advanced qualifications must feel so foolish

We wonder why the Goverment want to bring in competent person schemes? We wonder why clients complain and plumbers get a bad name?

This is one of the reasons that there wil be NO TECH CERT 6129 NEXT ACADEMIC YEAR - Only full NVQ's (under a new name)

 

[rfvpatlttp]

Not a teacher!

Quote from a teacher and supplier of GOLA examination training software.

If you had read the article you would of noticed the first line said:-

From Learnatrade.co.uk

Though I'd put the article on here for all thoughs saying they have had no work at all since doing the course, can't find a plumbing firm to employ them, been told they will never work in the industry and want to sue for their money back.

 

[fuzzy]

Not a teacher!

Quote from a teacher and supplier of GOLA examination training software.

If you had read the article you would of noticed the first line said:-

From Learnatrade.co.uk

Though I'd put the article on here for all thoughs saying they have had no work at all since doing the course, can't find a plumbing firm to employ them, been told they will never work in the industry and want to sue for their money back.

Oh sorry i thought this was your view, didnt pick up on it all being part of a quote. It appears we agree then

 

[rfvpatlttp]

Would that be fuzzy logic then? 297 Posts and fuzzy has not made any friends yet.

I think, if you can't get a plumbing firm to take you on, simply because:-

* You didn't go down the tea boy on day release at college route. In spite of the tech cert being the same theory work and portfolio content as required for nvq in both level 2 and 3.

* You funded your own studies instead of someone else getting a government grant
or financial incentive to take years to train you. (Anyone happen to know how long
the British Gas take to train their A level, 5 GCSE students at their own training center???????)

* You obtained your City&Guilds while working for a living, through dedicated home study and an industry recognised train centre, instead of a local college, with it's waiting lists, one day a week attendance, half terms, Summer and Christmas breaks, Easter holidays and all the spotty faced teenagers you can poke a stick at, that have little or no work ethic yet.

.....Then you will have to take your City&Guilds Technical Certificates level 2 and 3 in Plumbing, your portfolio of training, the Bpec WRAS water regulation Certificate, your part P acreditation your CSCS card and start advertising yourself as self employed.

* You should of started working on your own home while studying, moved on through friends and families homes, then the naighbours for extra experience in between the week long residential training session at the training centres.

* Building a website is one of the requirement of the course, I believe it comes in at section 18 but if you know how already do it anyway.

* Print some cards, flyers, put ads in the local shops and free papers, Thompson Local and yell.com.

* Because of the route you took, paying for your course, you must be working somewhere to pay for the monthly direct debits. Buy tools as you go, you will be surprised how quickly the need for a new one comes up.

* Register with the TAX, the WIAPS, IPHE, Building Regs, various competent person schemes and get that Public Liabilities Insurance mentioned by the tutor earlier. You don't want to be sued for accidently setting fire to a property with your blow lamp and end up losing you tools, your business, your house all because you were un-insured.

* Register with as many trade magazines as you can to keep up with all the latest Tech articles on solar or ground source heating and trade offers on bathroom suites, radiators, bathroom, kitchen and cloakroom taps and powerflush systems.

* While cash flow is low, get yourself trade accounts with your local branch of national suppliers; PTS, Plumbase, Plumb Center, Wickes, B&Q, Screwfix, Pulsar direct etc, etc, etc to name but a few. Pick up supplies, fit them, get paid. A month later get an invoice and pay the supplier, simple.

I'm sure, before you know it, because you put your training to good use and did a good job at every place you worked at, your plumbing jobs start coming in thick and fast and you may have to jack in that other job your doing that pays the finance for your course; if not, keep at it and plumb in the evenings and weekend only.

If your young it's an education, if your older it's an experience. Isn't that what everyone keeps telling you, you need to get on in the trade?

 

[fuzzy]

What friends? Would that be electronic ones or real ones you can see?
Errrr, youve lost me now, is this a quote or your thoughts? Bit longwinded, I got bored half way through, well first few lines if im honest. From what i gather your giving advice on how to get work when you train on Tec Certs only? Pity but that qual will be gone in a few months so its all pointless anyway

 

[rfvpatlttp]

......that qual will be gone in a few months so its all pointless anyway.

Can you qualify that statement please?

 

[fuzzy]

......that qual will be gone in a few months so its all pointless anyway.

Can you qualify that statement please?

Thought it was pretty simple, how about this one.

THERE WILL BE NO TECHNICAL CERTIFICATES FROM JULY 2010, no worky no qualification

 

[kwakerdude911]

i will be honest here
i am still doing a course for plumbing nvq 2
that is the least employers are looking for now as i have looked on a lot of sites
6 weeks to learn thejob aint good
i have learnt the theory over 2 years in my own time and passed them
it can be done if u spend time on it and researching anything u are un sure of
the practicals will be quick but as long as u have the theory u should be ok
then go self employed
and as for gas qualifications
seems a mine filed
as i think u need to have so many hours under your belt working ofr a gas registered company
they dont tell u that -
good luck

 

[rfvpatlttp]

Cheers kwakerdude,

Been plumbing on and off since 1996. My fiancee' at that time, who ran the quality assurance and technical departments of a well known bathrooms and kitchens manufacturing company and I, attended a night school class at the local college to learn how to plumb in a kitchen before renovating and install radiators and pipework for new central heating system in own newly aquired 1930s house. The new boiler was fitted by a CORGI Gas fitter but we fitted the rest, followed by a new bathroom suite a couple months later; staff discount of cause.

As far as the theory goes, been studying City & Guilds 6129 in my own time since 2007, firstly through PlumbingSkills and ATL before the Skills Centre company director stole loans of students cash to fund his gambling habit. Then with Train 4 Trades Skills and ATL once the government, Barclays Partner Finance and T4TS stepped in, took over the blended learning courses in Plumbing and Electrics C&G and NVQ's, so everyone studying with the Cardiff based company could complete their studies and not lose out because of a corrupt <NO SWEARING> in the finance chain.

 

[WHPES]

I am currently on the 6089 course and it's just for the bit of paper at the end. I am a fully qualified engineer and the sort of thing covered in the course I have been doing for years albeit on a larger scale.

I can see quite easily how persons new to the trade without any experience in plumbing or a engineering background can fail to grasp and understand the principles or methods used. Sometimes I see them doing something a certain way just because they have been taught it and they do not realise WHY it is done that way.

I learnt about system design by actually calculating water flow rates, pump curves, heat transfer rates through different materials and different thicknesses. On larger systems you have to take into account and calculate resistance to water flow from every bend and restriction. I could, if necessary take a radiator from a shelf, measure it, work out how much water goes is in it and actually calculate its output from first principles. This sort of work is the only way that industrial heating and process systems can be designed.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that plumbers should be able to do those calculations but people on the short courses need to understand more the principles and the physics behind the system design.

As a engineer I come across so many badly designed systems from an engineering perspective and I can tell very quickly a well designed system when I see it.

I have a few times been called to look at commercial systems where someone with insufficient expeience has been on it and got out of their depth. You are better to walk away from a job which is beyond you than to "have a go".

 

[fuzzy]

I am currently on the 6089 course and it's just for the bit of paper at the end. I am a fully qualified engineer and the sort of thing covered in the course I have been doing for years albeit on a larger scale.

I can see quite easily how persons new to the trade without any experience in plumbing or a engineering background can fail to grasp and understand the principles or methods used. Sometimes I see them doing something a certain way just because they have been taught it and they do not realise WHY it is done that way.

I learnt about system design by actually calculating water flow rates, pump curves, heat transfer rates through different materials and different thicknesses. On larger systems you have to take into account and calculate resistance to water flow from every bend and restriction. I could, if necessary take a radiator from a shelf, measure it, work out how much water goes is in it and actually calculate its output from first principles. This sort of work is the only way that industrial heating and process systems can be designed.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that plumbers should be able to do those calculations but people on the short courses need to understand more the principles and the physics behind the system design.

As a engineer I come across so many badly designed systems from an engineering perspective and I can tell very quickly a well designed system when I see it.

I have a few times been called to look at commercial systems where someone with insufficient expeience has been on it and got out of their depth. You are better to walk away from a job which is beyond you than to "have a go".

I have come across newbies into the trade doing jobs that are beyond them only to qoute that they are learning each time. I wouldnt be impressed if somebody learnt on my job that i was paying for!
I think your advice on the principles is spot on. you need to know why not just how to! That is the difference between a tradesman and a 'mate'.

 

[WHPES]

If you come to something new to you and have no experience in it, but have background knowledge, you can get a tape measure, calculator, textbook, pen and paper and work out what's going on, what to use and how to do the task.

You can always tell my work as I use a lot of swept bends, swept tees etc in my larger circuits and avoid restrictions as much as possible. Maybe you think it's a bit OTT but all my visible nut heads and screw slots line up at the same angle. Looks neat for anyone looking. I worked with Navy guys for a while and that is where I picked up that habit as they are very particular about the appearance of finished jobs.

 

[student plumber]

I can see quite easily how persons new to the trade without any experience in plumbing or a engineering background can fail to grasp and understand the principles or methods used. Sometimes I see them doing something a certain way just because they have been taught it and they do not realise WHY it is done that way.

I learnt about system design by actually calculating water flow rates, pump curves, heat transfer rates through different materials and different thicknesses. On larger systems you have to take into account and calculate resistance to water flow from every bend and restriction. I could, if necessary take a radiator from a shelf, measure it, work out how much water goes is in it and actually calculate its output from first principles. This sort of work is the only way that industrial heating and process systems can be designed.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that plumbers should be able to do those calculations but people on the short courses need to understand more the principles and the physics behind the system design.

-----------------------------------------

I agree, I'm on one of these courses and there's methods in the coursework and 3D software, but I figured there has to be more than that. I'm thinking if you have pipe and you take the outside measurement but it's 1mm wall you're accounting for water that isn't there, or an immersion heater but how much element is in there or is that all ready accounted for, or am I a bit off track there.

When I go for practical I want to try as many methods in an area as possible e.g. pipe bending, not just what's in the book. I've been working in sheet metal and microns make a lot of difference. The method for bending I cut a tube to length first then bend, I worked out how much I gained before hand, and they came out pretty much the same (not a very accurate bender) and very quickly. I always try and look deeper I would be very interested to hear more.

 

[Joanna]

Tells me ur on the team. Only 1 of about a thousand sad stories with such positivity for t4ts Ive come across. Wonder how much ur getting to sing their praises. All proffesionals warn of these expensive waste of time bull**** courses, gets no1 anywhere but in debt. GET A GRIP COZ UR NOT FOOLIN ANY 1 ESP ME!

 

[heinz57]

Whether you've got a million bits of paper that say your a genious or not dont mean dic#. All any employer will see is whether you can do the job or not, thats pretty much all they care about. If your face fits, you get along with the rest of the crew/customers then great. People worry too much about 6129 and 5817 or r2 fuc~ing d2!!!! The only bits of paper you should be worried about are gassafe, part -p and un-vented. As for trade skills, for most people there a complete rip off, waste of time. Being self employed is an absolute nightmare, especially while doing it alone, you have to be a tradesman, accountant, mechanic, business manager, lawyer, ad-man and all at the same time. When you get home from work you spend frigging hours doing paperwork, it aint easy. When you go for an interview stop flapping about your 6185 or your c3p0, tell the boss your comming to work for him for a weeks fuc#ing trial, at the end of the week when you've got the job, problem solved!!!!! Works for me.

 

[bobby]

i just started the course and feel it has something to offer yes its expensive but hopefully it will be money well spent i know qualifications dont mean a thing without practical experience but you have to start somewhere! i'll keep posting throughout the course with an honest opinion!so wish me luck!!!