Which boiler - confused and could do with help

[pirateplunder]

I'm looking to replace an old glow worm boiler with a combi boiler. Move its location and vent through roof.

I've had qoutes from three companies with the following

£3,800 Worcester 28kw, wireless room thermostat, magnaflow, no radiator controls
£3,300 Valiant 28kw, wireless room thermostat, magnaflow, controls on all 6 radiators
£3,000 Glow Worm 28kw, wireless room thermostat, magnaflow, controls on all 6 radiators
£2,750 Potterton promax 28 kw, wireless room thermostat, controls on just 3 bedroom radiators

I've also tried to get two quotes of local independant installers, one offered £2,250 for 37kw(!) Worcester didn't mention magnaflow or radiator controls and the other sadly didn't turn up to do the quote.

Couple of questions.

I've heard viesmanns are better (but presumably more expensive) and I'm sure there are other luxury boilers but I expect we won't be in the house 8 - 10 years from now but are there any of the above to avoid or are they all much the same? In our last house we had a potterton and as with everyone on the estate the pcb had to be replaced shortly after the warranty expired. Perhaps its unwarrented but I still feel wary of potterton.

The second question is the radiator thermostat controls. I was originally under the impression that they were required now. But one company said they aren't needed at all, one said the building regs require them and the other said they're good to have - in the bedrooms which in fairness from our last house is where we really used them.

Any advice would be great, with the exception of the £3,800 quote it's really coming down more on the quality of the boiler than the price as they're all much of a muchness.

 

[dontknowitall]

Worcester boilers are my favourite but have read on this forum that Valiant is good as well.

Controls on radiators (TRV - thermostatic radiator valve) ... building regs say these have to be on every radiator except the one in the room that has the room thermostat.

I tend to stick to this but also I use common sense (which is against the rules). For example, in my house the hall has the room thermostat but the shower room is off this room and the door is nearly always open. Just inside the door is a good heated towel rail and as the room is small, excess heat will spill out of the shower room into the hall and a TRV on this will "fight" the hall room stat resulting in inefficient boiler running. So technically it's against the rules not to fit one as it's in a different room but I'd prefer not to pump excess CO2 into the atmosphere.

Not sure where you live but if those are prices in a rural area they're a little on the high side (except the independents). As a small plug for us independents, our prices tend not to have to cover major marketing costs and a new fleet of vans every six months which is why we're less pricey. All of us have to follow the guidelines for Gas Safe/OFTEC and building regs. Also, as we're relying on customers for recommendations we tend to be more caring (e.g. less mess, more attention to detail, etc.) And, naturally, we're much more likely to sort out those "Could you just" jobs while we're there.

 

[pirateplunder]

Many thanks for the reply.

We're in East Cheshire and although rural I have a feeling we're subjected to a little extra percentage due to the location.

I expect it to be a little bit more as the new boiler isn't going on an external wall so vented through the roof, the pipework to the meter has to be installed etc etc. Unfortunately we're new to the area and like I said the one recommendation we had didn't bother to show up - and they even only gave a time of 'over the weekend'. It's a shame as I'ld rather go with a good local independant than a large company and as you say pay for their massive overheads and sales team's laptops and cordless printers.

The radiator thermostats is more odd, and in so much a little confusing and even concerning. Whilst I would expect an independent to use common sense and maybe save me some money I'ld think all three companies that themselves say they're top 5 nationwide would stick closely to the rules. You can probably guess who gave the £3,800 quote and that didn't include a single thermostatic control for a radiator. In fact all three companies gave totally different advice as to what were the rules.

Would still like to know from anyone else if I should steer clear of either the Potterton or Glow Worm.

 

[dontknowitall]

The TRV rule is they should be on all radiators apart from the room where the room thermostat is located.

The Potterton and Glow Worm are not as reliable as the other two boilers (as far as I'm led to believe). I don't know about the Valiant but the Worcester boilers carry a two year warranty (covered by themselves as opposed to the installer) so long as the installer is Gas Safe/OFTEC registered.

Re the large companies sticking to the rules, you'd be surprised how many break them especially if it's close to the profit margin!!

If I was you (I know I'm not but if I was!) I'd have another look in Yellow Pages under central heating for an independent who hasn't got an advert. They tend to be busier but that's because they tend to be better and have enough customers that they don't need a flashy advert.

 

[moony]

thermostats are only required in bedroom areas according to building regs iirc - but its good practice to install in all rooms except the one with the room stat in.

basically if i were you i would go for the one with all stats installed as is good practice - keep away from glow worm theyre 2 years behind other boilers - of the boilers youve mentioned i would tend to go with the worcestor or vailant - but for that price we would be looking at putting a worcestor cdi in not the si.

worcestor 30 cdi 6 stats flush and through the roof £2650 that was done recently by us at that price.
thats no rads and 9 metres of gas pipework from the meter to the boiler.

 

[Toddyplumb]

Building regs now say TRVs on all radiators except reference room ( room with stat) and bathrooms

 

[GrahamM]

I'm looking to replace an old glow worm boiler with a combi boiler. Move its location and vent through roof.

I've had qoutes from three companies with the following

£3,800 Worcester 28kw, wireless room thermostat, magnaflow, no radiator controls
£3,300 Valiant 28kw, wireless room thermostat, magnaflow, controls on all 6 radiators
£3,000 Glow Worm 28kw, wireless room thermostat, magnaflow, controls on all 6 radiators
£2,750 Potterton promax 28 kw, wireless room thermostat, controls on just 3 bedroom radiators

I've also tried to get two quotes of local independant installers, one offered £2,250 for 37kw(!) Worcester didn't mention magnaflow or radiator controls and the other sadly didn't turn up to do the quote.

Couple of questions.

I've heard viesmanns are better (but presumably more expensive) and I'm sure there are other luxury boilers but I expect we won't be in the house 8 - 10 years from now but are there any of the above to avoid or are they all much the same? In our last house we had a potterton and as with everyone on the estate the pcb had to be replaced shortly after the warranty expired. Perhaps its unwarrented but I still feel wary of potterton.

The second question is the radiator thermostat controls. I was originally under the impression that they were required now. But one company said they aren't needed at all, one said the building regs require them and the other said they're good to have - in the bedrooms which in fairness from our last house is where we really used them.

Any advice would be great, with the exception of the £3,800 quote it's really coming down more on the quality of the boiler than the price as they're all much of a muchness.

As most of the lads mentioned above TRV's are required in most cases on all but one radiator. The rad in same room as room stat.
Do not trust any of the cowboys that say they are not required. All reputable companies should be strongly advising to have these fitted. You will also save money in the long run by fitting them.
Based on your list I would say the Vaillant looks not too bad. Not the worst boiler.
The Worcester company did not even quote for TRV's so I would stay away as they are not giving best advise.
The other 2 I would stay away from as in general I have found them to be average performing brands in general.

If you are getting a few more quotes you could try asking for a PART-L qualified engineer as he/she will be able to give you a quote based on the regulations and what will be the best for efficiency saving you a few quid over the years.

 

[Avatar]

got a british gas quote in there have you? - it is easy to beat these type of quotes.

I have been doing a potteron condesing combi plus installation (basic) at about £2000, although yours would be more no doubt. Viesman will be more expensive to buy parts later on down the line.

Always use independant guys. 9 times out of 10 the big companies use muppet contractors, who dont know the first thing about hot and cold water systems . . . .

They look fancy, but seriously its like getting an engine put in your car, by someone who isnt a mechanic!!

I had an arguement with a british gas guy the other day who turned up where i was working for a quote on a new boiler, and proptly told the customer that she could not have a combi boiler if she had more than 2 hot outlets, and started spouting crap about the washing machine dropping the pressure in the boiler! (unbeilveable!!!) He was repeating what he has read out of his books and manuels, and did not like it when I suggested the opposite, due to the fact I am a plumber who works on water systems week in . . .

He then admited he didnt know anything about water appliances when the customer asked about using a shower off the new boiler.

Believe me, steer well clear!!

 

[gasmarc]

i would recommend viessmann as they come with a 5 year guarantee parts and labour and a 10 guarantee on the heat exchanger, i personally would go for a intergas boiler as they are the best design of boiler on the market and nothing compares to them ,broag is another good make ,I would not install bosch or vaillant as they have their own problems