JIB Do not recognise City & Guilds without NVQ

[EastLondonPlumb]

Hi all just a heads up that JIB will not issue a blue or gold skills card without a NVQ. They say the City & Guilds is just the classroom side to the qualification. To which i do not agree, on a city & guilds course you will have a practical portfolio as well as written exams. You also complete a final assessment which is exactly the same as a NVQ.

Just a heads up to all on a City & Guilds course make sure you get the NVQ.

 

[kirkgas]

Depends what C&G cert you have, unfortunately some are just classroom theory Certs and not worth having on their own

 

[hammers4spanner]

I have city guilds gold card

 

[chris watkins]

The idea behind the only recognised plumbing qualification (C&G 6189) introduced a couple of years ago was that it was an NVQ qualification i.e. you had to be working, not just a classroom test, you combined work based learning with college.

I am sorry EastLondon but you don't know much about Plumbing if you think that you can learn enough about the trade to hold a card & work on site from just a college course!!

The trouble is that so much revenue was being lost by the colleges that they campaigned to have the college only course re-enstated but it does not make you a plumber & never can no matter what they promise you & how much money you pay! Beware of the C&G 6035 !!

I feel for you but carrying out plumbing tasks in a college is in no way the same as doing it in the work place.

 

[lame plumber]

Hi all just a heads up that JIB will not issue a blue or gold skills card without a NVQ. They say the City & Guilds is just the classroom side to the qualification. To which i do not agree, on a city & guilds course you will have a practical portfolio as well as written exams. You also complete a final assessment which is exactly the same as a NVQ.

Just a heads up to all on a City & Guilds course make sure you get the NVQ.

seems your the one sheep walking in a different direction to the flock old son, common knowledge, you may have soldered a few pipes but you need a bit more experience than that to be honest

 

[stratplus]

Ive done 3 years at college doing c+g level 2 and 3 electrical. No site experience. I am by no means an electrician!!

 

[dom brennan]

in college there was 21 on the level 2 non nvq course and they all passed and not one of them are doing anything to do with plumbing now. its a stupid course really you can only do 75% in college the rest is onsite. its just keeping the college tutors in a job

 

[northstar]

Ive done 3 years at college doing c+g level 2 and 3 electrical. No site experience. I am by no means an electrician!!

what c+g electrical course did you do ?

 

[Ermintrude]

I got black card?

 

[stratplus]

what c+g electrical course did you do ?

2330 level 2 and 3. Also 2392 inspection and test and 17th ed. I bet most of the guys on here know more than me about stuff. Didn't even tough centeal heating controls. Cost distinctions throughout but without site experience I lack the confidence.

 

[Ermintrude]

2330 level 2 and 3. Also 2392 inspection and test and 17th ed. I bet most of the guys on here know more than me about stuff. Didn't even tough centeal heating controls. Cost distinctions throughout but without site experience I lack the confidence.

Your not safe / competent with electrics till you've had a good jolt, then you take isolation a bit more serious !

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Your not safe / competent with electrics till you've had a good jolt, then you take isolation a bit more serious !

now you know thats carp,you have to blown across the room backwards first and have burnt hair

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

I got a bolt from a bare wire the boy electrician left floating around live! Would have brained him if he was on site!

 

[chris watkins]

in college there was 21 on the level 2 non nvq course and they all passed and not one of them are doing anything to do with plumbing now. its a stupid course really you can only do 75% in college the rest is onsite. its just keeping the college tutors in a job

As an ex-college tutor myself I can tell you all the plumbing lecturers are there to teach apprentices or trainees who do 4 day's training on site & 1 with them in colleges. Otherwise they have such a hard time trying to do their job properly.

Perhaps we should be looking towards governments who don't want 16 year old underachievers still in school & with no chance of employment, appearing on the statistics as unemployed.
So what to do ? lets offer them these stupid college course with the allure of increasing their chances of plumbing employment at the end of it, when we all know it is just wasting a couple of years of their very valuable young lives.

& we the tax payers pay for all that copper tube which will never see a drop of water or gas !!

6035 full time Level 2 AND 3 = full time college = 3 days a week tops 9 to 4 if you are luck with breaks, sound like site working hours to you?. LEVEL 3 for someone who has never put a foot on site & guess what there is gas & electrical in there as well, are these people mad ??? oh know they needed the L3 to keep them in there for the second year. :32::rant::furious3::chillpill::girl_hug: rant over back to painting now.

 

[wetdrip]

in college there was 21 on the level 2 non nvq course and they all passed and not one of them are doing anything to do with plumbing now. its a stupid course really you can only do 75% in college the rest is onsite. its just keeping the college tutors in a job

When my nipper was doing his NVQ 2, the course time overran. Not one of the 19 in his class done their booth work as it's the last thing they do. Upon returning after summer break the college wanted each student to pay around £1,200 to bring someone in to oversee said booth work.
NO CHANCE.
So next time round, and he'll most probably have to start from scratch, and its Rugby college, as they have a great rep.
College doesn't teach a student how to: lift boards and replace, chase out or plan a job, affix rads to dot and dab or the various type of alternative fixtures and fitting one can use from under the sink work , guts of a W.C. or have a selection of old and new taps available to the students to have a play with and understand their differences.Sounds silly but true.
There's no true real life work, as in get down and dirty.

 

[dom brennan]

When my nipper was doing his NVQ 2, the course time overran. Not one of the 19 in his class done their booth work as it's the last thing they do. Upon returning after summer break the college wanted each student to pay around £1,200 to bring someone in to oversee said booth work.
NO CHANCE.
So next time round, and he'll most probably have to start from scratch, and its Rugby college, as they have a great rep.
College doesn't teach a student how to: lift boards and replace, chase out or plan a job, affix rads to dot and dab or the various type of alternative fixtures and fitting one can use from under the sink work , guts of a W.C. or have a selection of old and new taps available to the students to have a play with and understand their differences.Sounds silly but true.
There's no true real life work, as in get down and dirty.

That is very true, fixing rads to ply walls. We have done a bathroom assessment the wastes where already in. The pipe work was mostly plastic push fit every single joint leaked because the fittings are old, we spent more time fixing leaks thank actually fitting the bathroom.

 

[deandive]

The guy I work with has a first year apprentice with him one day a week. He was talking about an assessment fitting a sink , they used speed fit and were given 8 hours to complete?

 

[stratplus]

The guy I work with has a first year apprentice with him one day a week. He was talking about an assessment fitting a sink , they used speed fit and were given 8 hours to complete?

Kitchen sink? Never had that on any assessments.

 

[kay-jay]

Kitchen sink? Never had that on any assessments.

I bet he means basin....

 

[kirkgas]

The guy I work with has a first year apprentice with him one day a week. He was talking about an assessment fitting a sink , they used speed fit and were given 8 hours to complete?

In the colleges I work in fitting a sink unit is one of the assessments, you get 3.5hrs to do it, waste boss is already there and two blanked/valves supplies, they have to work from a drawing with specific measurements for 1st leg off offsets, but not size of offset, if that makes sense, so they are assessed on pipe bending as well, rather than letting them put any size of tail on the offset etc
If a guy says he gets 8hrs I can't say he's lying, more likely he said a day, but remember a college day is only 6.5hrs and it depends how accurate they need to be

 

[dom brennan]

The guy I work with has a first year apprentice with him one day a week. He was talking about an assessment fitting a sink , they used speed fit and were given 8 hours to complete?

that sounds about right, we had 8 or 12 hours to fit a rad and pipe it up

 

[stratplus]

that sounds about right, we had 8 or 12 hours to fit a rad and pipe it up

Wow, was that all in lcs?

 

[dom brennan]

yeah 1 meter of lcs going up and then joining to push fit then lcs tee of to the flow and return on the rad with only 1 offset.

 

[newcastle phill]

And theres the Rub.

No college based courses are full nvq unless apprenticeship sponsored or explicitly stated at the outset.
They are Gnvq.
Im surprised the college lecturer didnt know that or at least make mention.
The Nvq is the full Qual comes after working onsite which is typically extra cost and made clear at the outset.

Only then do you have the full recognised cert.

So much negativity about people trying to enter the game.
And assumptions that every newby must have been born yesterday and incapable of doing the job.

Sure colleges are out to rape you. But isnt gas safe and benchmark. I.e.e and every other fecker.

I currently work with the insides of jet aircraft engines dont like it particularly (because its shift work). Doing inspections and tests.
Have a history of repairs and fault diagnostics from earlier days.
Im not super man - but thats good because being a plumber doesnt require a caped super hero.
My job is heavily assessed by the CAA and various other auditors - we cant afford jet engines going bang and falling apart 36000ft up.
Im not so self assured to presume that 80% of the people on here would be rubbish and no good at it and couldnt pick it up and learn. To the contrary I am quite sure most could !!

Or I could be arrogant and make blanket statements like "everyone new will be sh*t and useless and not to be trusted doing the job"

This isnt aimed at you. I am talking generally.

Please SOME . Hop of your pedestal for a minute and give yourself a slap.
Get a bit fed up of people in their ivory towers saying new entrants will be worse that sh@t. Because guess what.....one day YOU were too. But through training and experience and doing courses are now good within your scope.

Sure its a steep learning curve. Not everyone has the same ability or previous experience.

But some qualified engineers I have seen I wouldnt let them wash my car......'need a new boiler...ya need a new boiler. ..ye need a new boiler...... Others a great deal of respect and very very good....."aah yes I can fix this" lol

 

[chris watkins]

I am looking for a change (no pension & getting bored etc etc) so how about a job swap phill ?(once I get a ladder to get down from the tower of coarse).
I am sure jet aircraft engines are not that difficult, mostly pipes & wires so with my background it would only take short while to get the hang of it.

Have a look at the link below phill, it's for the Plumbing qualification we have been talking about in this post, you known the one that is recognized by industry, you will notice it is an NVQ.

[DLMURL="http://www.cityandguilds.com/courses-and-qualifications/building-services-industry/plumbing/6189-plumbing-and-domestic-heating/level-2"]Level 2 qualifications and training courses | City & Guilds[/DLMURL]

That's the trouble you see there are a lot of people who fancy a change in life & think plumbing would be a good bet without finding out what it really entails or just how difficult it is.

Get your facts right if you want to have a go.
Signed -
The caped super hero :alucard:

 

[newcastle phill]

College only based level 2 level 3 is a tech cert only and known as a Gnvq.

The full NVQ is portfolio based onsite.
Without completing the onsite work the college based work is worthless hence why JIB dont want to know and so many on here ask for the onsite work assistance in return for offering a free pair of hands to convert to the full NVQ

And jet engines are a doddle.
Just big lumps of titanium and inconel made into big spinney round thingys
Bring your hammer - you start Monday. ..

 

[newcastle phill]

Chris we are both saying the same thing.
Rant not aimed at you

 

[chris watkins]

And jet engines are a doddle.
Just big lumps of titanium and inconel made into big spinney round thingys
Bring your hammer - you start Monday. ..

Cheers phill, I am good with hammer.
Although I think you had better just let the pilots know!!

 

[rpm]

Pilots report in maintenance log
"Strange noise, sounds like a midget with a hammer"

Maintenance Engineer in maintenance log
"Hammer removed from midget"

 

[Ermintrude]

Phil u still up for some on site in September? I've got cherry and strawberry flavoured lube?

 

[newcastle phill]

Guy. In a word yes !.

Not so sure about the lube though...
Prefer vanilla pmsl...:thumbup:

 

[julesverne]

Plumbing and Heating isn't rocket science but inspecting jet engines is not far off it.

said with tongue firmly in cheek.

 

[EastLondonPlumb]

The idea behind the only recognised plumbing qualification (C&G 6189) introduced a couple of years ago was that it was an NVQ qualification i.e. you had to be working, not just a classroom test, you combined work based learning with college.

I am sorry EastLondon but you don't know much about Plumbing if you think that you can learn enough about the trade to hold a card & work on site from just a college course!!

The trouble is that so much revenue was being lost by the colleges that they campaigned to have the college only course re-enstated but it does not make you a plumber & never can no matter what they promise you & how much money you pay! Beware of the C&G 6035 !!

I feel for you but carrying out plumbing tasks in a college is in no way the same as doing it in the work place.

I don't know much about plumbing because i have a c&g? I started that course over 8 years ago whilst working as a plumbers mate. If you think 1 assessment is more powerful then 8 years experience then i think you don't know much about plumbing either!

 

[EastLondonPlumb]

seems your the one sheep walking in a different direction to the flock old son, common knowledge, you may have soldered a few pipes but you need a bit more experience than that to be honest

So 8 years experience is not enough then?

 

[chris watkins]

I don't know much about plumbing because i have a c&g? I started that course over 8 years ago whilst working as a plumbers mate. If you think 1 assessment is more powerful then 8 years experience then i think you don't know much about plumbing either!

The problem you have EastLondon is that you want a trade skills card that shows employers that you can work as a trained plumber, I have no doubt that with your 8 years experience you could do the job but for all that the employer knows, all you have ever done is the work in the college or worked on site only as a mate, you have no proof.

Whatever the rights & wrongs of the NVQ system, site inspection visits (minimum of 4) are made & evidence is collected across a range of work areas to ensure that you have the skills to carry out all work that a plumber could be expected to do. The plumbing employer group decide what this range should be, it is most certainly NOT 1 assessment.

You can judge for yourself what I do or don't know about plumbing but what I do know about is the need to have an NVQ in plumbing, something which you didn't find out about 8 years ago.