Triton shower heater kettling query

[Donkey Table]

Hi Guys Im on my third T100XR in quick sucession. The water heaters start kettling, making a banging noise. This happens after about 12 to 18 months of domestic use. Triton say they have never heard of the issue, probably as they would.

We are in a soft water area, mains pressure is good, and the AC mains is good too.

Any views on the subject.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Have you changed the hose and head of the shower from the stnd or added anything?

 

[Donkey Table]

Have you changed the hose and head of the shower from the stnd or added anything?

No Shaun all as came out of the box. The current heater was changed under warranty by Triton. What odd is we have an old Triton TW10i feeding the sink and thats good a s new, it must be 15 years old.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That’s strange and the water flow out is the same as before?

 

[Donkey Table]

That’s strange and the water flow out is the same as before?

Yes nothing has changed, the water pressure doesnt pulse either. The Mains electric is feed from a new 3 phase cable the size of my arm. Voltage is 230 nominal all the time.

 

[Chuck]

Can you measure the flow rate from the shower (e.g. by using a measuring jug and stop watch) and temperature rise relative to the incoming cold supply? Comparing these with the shower specifications might be worth doing. Also, check the pressure of the water supply.

Yes nothing has changed, the water pressure doesnt pulse either. The Mains electric is feed from a new 3 phase cable the size of my arm. Voltage is 230 nominal all the time.

Is this a domestic installation? I assume you have a 3 phase + neutral supply. I think it's possible that if the phases are not accurately balanced and/or there is an issue with the neutral you might be getting more than 230V delivered to the shower heater, which might be an explanation. Does your system have a monitoring box on the supply?

@Murdoch is the resident electrician so he may be able to give more/better advice if you post some more information about your electrical supply.

 

[Donkey Table]

Ill do the temperature difference Chuck also check flow rate and physical water pressure. Note we have a TW10i on the same water main with no issues.

The 3 phase is not full 3 phase, only a single phase is live as they havent upgraded the tranformer yet. We are PME for the earth. Ive Fluke multi meter.

If I turn the shower temperature down the kettling decreases. Cold water flow, no kettling.

 

[Murdoch]

I’d get the incoming supply and circuit properly tested. The chances of 3 units being faulted is unlikely to say the least

does the circuit in question have RCD protection ?

 

[Donkey Table]

I’d get the incoming supply and circuit properly tested. The chances of 3 units being faulted is unlikely to say the least

does the circuit in question have RCD protection ?

The incoming supply was replaced in May 2021 with a new 3 phase domestic main - with 2 phases diabled as they awit a new transformer. The Board people tested the the voltage and the PME earth. The Consumer unit has a 30mA RCD which passes test unit an RCD tester. The MCB is 50 Amp. We never get tripping. The Mains voltage is 230V nominal.

The canary in the coal mine here is the Triton TW 10i that feeds a sink. Its on the same water main and consumer unit - no problems at all.

The current heating element was replaced by Tritons field service bloke. Initially he fitted an element that didnt heat the water enough. He paid us a second visit where he replaced the water heater, this time it was warm as new.

I have said to Triton on this and the last occasion, invesigate the water heater. They refuse, I small a rat. By water heater I mean the cylinder contraption in the guts of the thing.

 

[Murdoch]

But you haven’t actually tested the circuit. The fact that the rcd or mcb aren’t tripping isn’t really relevant

 

[John.g]

Ill do the temperature difference Chuck also check flow rate and physical water pressure. Note we have a TW10i on the same water main with no issues.

The 3 phase is not full 3 phase, only a single phase is live as they havent upgraded the tranformer yet. We are PME for the earth. Ive Fluke multi meter.

If I turn the shower temperature down the kettling decreases. Cold water flow, no kettling.

If the above is a actual shower then a thermal cut out (TCO) will trip the power at 48C if the flow rate is too low or the power too high and the water will then run hot & cold, if the temperature reaches a still higher temperature then the TCO will trip and won't reset and has to be renewed, if the temperature is constant looks like something in the water.

 

[Donkey Table]

If the above is a actual shower then a thermal cut out (TCO) will trip the power at 48C if the flow rate is too low or the power too high and the water will then run hot & cold, if the temperature reaches a still higher temperature then the TCO will trip and won't reset and has to be renewed, if the temperature is constant looks like something in the water.

Yes has been tested I have a Metro RCD tester with croc clips in this case. It passes and disconnects, plus phase is correct.

Water temperature is constant.

We are in a software area. If it was water related I think the Triton TW 10i on the same water main would have shown issues too, it hasnt.

 

[Chuck]

Did you ever measure the actual flow rate?

IIRC, the T100XR has a water filter on its inlet. This needs to be cleaned periodically. When was this last done?

 

[Murdoch]

Testing the RCD is VERY different to testing the circuit properly ……

 

[Donkey Table]

Did you ever measure the actual flow rate?

IIRC, the T100XR has a water filter on its inlet. This needs to be cleaned periodically. When was this last done?

Never, Ill check that.

 

[Donkey Table]

Testing the RCD is VERY different to testing the circuit properly ……

I did the Electrical Testing C&G.

 

[Murdoch]

I did the Electrical Testing C&G.

That’s not important.

You claim to have tested the RCD -! So what else have you tested on the circuit?

 

[Donkey Table]

That’s not important.

You claim to have tested the RCD -! So what else have you tested on the circuit?

Hipot the conductors, metered the connections back to the consumer unit. Its a 10mm cable too.

 

[John.g]

If I turn the shower temperature down the kettling decreases. Cold water flow, no kettling.

A flow test may show up something in view of the above.
Don't know what the shower output is, have done a few calcs based on my mains temp of 8C

KW/showertempdegC/flowrate LPM

8.5/40/3.8
8.5/45/3.3
9.0/40/4.0
9.0/45/3.5
9.5/40/4.3
9.5/45/3.7

 

[Donkey Table]

A flow test may show up something in view of the above.
Don't know what the shower output is, have done a few calcs based on my mains temp of 8C

KW/showertempdegC/flowrate LPM

8.5/40/3.8
8.5/45/3.3
9.0/40/4.0
9.0/45/3.5
9.5/40/4.3
9.5/45/3.7

Thanks for the info John, I shall check.