why don't plumbers fit isolation valves?!

[MP plumb]

i have come across soooo many maintenance jobs where there are NO isolation valves fitted.

some jobs have NONE whatsoever so i have to turn off the main stopcock and drain the whole system down, some use cheap valves that last a year until they get furred up or just dam right stuck!, and others put the valves in places u will never reach again!
so myy question is.... why do u old boys( i say old boys because i usually work on old sytems, and i know valves dont last forever, but even young boys dont care to fit them once they have worked on something) not fit them? is it cost or cant be bothered!!!!?

it makes such more hard work for me

 

[ecowarm]

No requirement to fit, only on ball/ float valves

 

[moony]

I always fit them. But I don't mind if they're not fitted as its only really become the norm in last few years.

 

[Guest123]

.....because they're lazy tight fisted gits.

Seriously though all new installations should have them fitted as a matter of good practice. Saves gas in my pipe freezer!

 

[ecowarm]

And I'm now fifty so please don't call me old

 

[SimonG]

Always fit them. I work on the basis it's probably me coming back at some point for servicing/repairing/replacing so make sure i can isolate and remove things nice and easily.

 

[Mike Jackson]

Until ballofix valves became commonly available there was no choice but to use stop taps and gate valves so it wasn't normal practice except on a lot of government housing contracts.

No excuse for not using them now though.

 

[Puddle]

I always fit service valves,trouble is finding good quality ball a fix valves is becoming harder and harder

imho

 

[hammers4spanner]

I always fit them as when filling up and testing makes life sooooo much easier!!!

 

[dontknowitall]

I fit them all over the place too.

I think it was a new regulation on 1st April last year where every new tap had to have an isolation on it's supply pipe.

 

[dancinplumba]

i fit them and use them to regulate the flowrate

 

[GQuigley67]

its not as bad as the plumbers that dont fit drain off valves on heating systems they are the spawn of satan especially drop-feed systems.

 

[dontknowitall]

:innocent:

Oops!

I keep forgetting to fit downstairs radiators with lockshield/drain fittings ...

 

[WaterTight]

i don't fit them if ..

a) no room in existing installation
b) gravity fed so might impair flow
c) vented heating system

that applies to screw operated type not full bore

some will say it's just another joint to leak and drain downs are longer more skilled jobs with more money and i can see both those arguments too

 

[MP plumb]

OMG... thats a different argument when it come to drain off's!
ecowarm... are u admmitting to being one of 'those' plumbers who dont fit valves then?!!

i have also come across many properties that dont even have a drain off for the heating, and u end up having to take a rad off a downstairs wall to drain it, with the hope that the old rubbish valves still work and turn off properly!

drain off's are a nightmare.... some open ok, some start leaking from the screw, some are stuck shut, and some leak from every place possible!

but serioulsy...... whats wrong with leaver valves or good old fashion stop cockes here and there? u 'older' guys make our job soooo much longer to do!!!

 

[dancinplumba]

dont use iso's on heating systems unless fullbore
screw type on taps etc to regulate flow and isolate
imo

 

[WaterTight]

u 'older' guys make our job soooo much longer to do!!!

..........and therefore more lucrative?

 

[dontknowitall]

You tell 'em Claire ...!!!

 

[WaterTight]

Incidentally I'm not an older guy. Well I might be. It rather depends on what age that begins.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

I always fit service valves,trouble is finding good quality ball a fix valves is becoming harder and harder

imho

agree totally puddle the quality's not there anymore i was buying in bulk from a firm in brum yewtree plumbing a bof that was quarter turn and had Italy written on the side been using that make for years never had a failure cant get them anymore though sadly

 

[dancinplumba]

haha lol err dont say it's this much with or this much without, i just fit them as they are required when i fit new taps etc

 

[Whn1]

No drain off? Get the vax out! The vax is gods gift for fighting against these satanic drainoff forgetters!

 

[MP plumb]

watertight, not for me, i give a price... if im there for 30 mins or 3 hours, its still the same price... thats life. i dont go out to rip people off so i tell em a price, n i either manage to do a job quickly, or its a rubbish job n it takes a long time. i have learnt to look around first to see if there are valves nowadays, as ive always assumed before that plumbers would of fitted them.....ohhhhh how i was wrong!!!!

 

[moony]

Always look at every job Clareplumb as a possible drain down - then when you have isolations points it's a bonus your right about no drain offs downstair rads - bad bad practice and I cone across it quite a lot. I don't take rad off though - drain rad, twist trv and fix to flexi tap conn with hose on it.

Stop ya whining and get on with it haha

 

[MP plumb]

i bet u love a good old 'VAX'...but how does a vax help on a drain off?

 

[WaterTight]

wouldn't draining down a system with a vac take a hundred go's?

i tend to just empty a small rad, loosen valve and turn inwards and fit a washing machine hose joined to a normal hose to it.

those self-cutting drain-offs might be worth keeping too. re-pipe after with drain-off.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

not sure about a vax why you removing rads though Claire have you not adapted a simple rad tail to your hose pipe?

 

[Whn1]

i bet u love a good old 'VAX'...but how does a vax help on a drain off?

A. When a drain off decides to leak from every angle possible

B. When the drain off rubber gets stuck and you have to pick it out and then WHOOSH.

C. When I can't be arse to use a hose

 

[WaterTight]

watertight, not for me, i give a price... if im there for 30 mins or 3 hours, its still the same price... thats life. i dont go out to rip people off so i tell em a price, n i either manage to do a job quickly, or its a rubbish job n it takes a long time. i have learnt to look around first to see if there are valves nowadays, as ive always assumed before that plumbers would of fitted them.....ohhhhh how i was wrong!!!!

maybe consider offering a small fixed price range for jobs that are hard to be precise about? that's what i do. people almost see it the same as a fixed price - they just don't want open-ending escalating prices. infact these days i tend to think of the price i want (say £80) and say "it'll be around £70-£90." That way i've room for movement and if things go well they still think they've got a bargain when i charge less than the potential full amount.

 

[MP plumb]

moony- how can u drain a rad without opening a valve and all the sludgy black water all over carpets? u can NEVER save it all as it goes everywhere! plus, some old TRV's, dont sut down completly....so u end up with a constand water flow... unless ur handy enough to have the right temp head for the original TRV so u can shut it complely.

i think.... choose the smallest downstairs rad, put a dust sheet down, close valves, undow both sides at same time,lift with thumb over the end and drain in a suitable position )