Space below cylinder?

[Cello]

Replacing an ancient copper hot water cylinder. The airing cupboard has a fully boarded floor and the cylinder is supported on three bearers, resting on the floor, each approximately an inch and a half wide by two inches high. I question whether bearers are needed? Can I just put the new cylinder on the floor or is there a good reason why a space is needed below the cylinder?

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

The cylinder needs to be on batons to ventilate the bottom to stop corrosion.

 

[townfanjon]

Sorry ch 4 totaly disagree, stresses the cylinder.

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

Seen plenty pin holed at the bottom when sat straight on the floor, especially on concrete.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Seen plenty pin holed at the bottom when sat straight on the floor, especially on concrete.

thats because of the concrete

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Sorry ch 4 totaly disagree, stresses the cylinder.

how many old cylinders do you see straight on the timber boards and these new unvented cylinders you put straight on the floor as well

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

Very rarely see a copper cylinder straight on the floor, unvented cylinders should be sat straight on the floor no question about that.

 

[townfanjon]

Seen plenty pin holed at the bottom when sat straight on the floor, especially on concrete.

Yep agree not straight on to concrete, its similar to why we put cwsc's on solid bases with 150mm overhang, they are fully supported.

 

[Riley]

I was always taught to have vented cylinders raised to allow air circulation

 

[townfanjon]

Very rarely see a copper cylinder straight on the floor, unvented cylinders should be sat straight on the floor no question about that.

Lol must be a regional 'thing' I very rarely see them on battons lol

 

[Rickster123]

I always thought that gap underneath was for hiding mucky mags..

 

[townfanjon]

I always thought that gap underneath was for hiding mucky mags..

9k posts !!! Says it all lol

 

[Riley]

That's just an added bonus

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

I was taught it was to stop the cylinder sweating? Always done it and never seen a cylinder suffer for it.

 

[missplumb]

as an apprentice on new build sites back in the day, we always put the cylinders on 3x2 battens made into a cross by the joiners.

 

[drip-dry]

as an apprentice on new build sites back in the day, we always put the cylinders on 3x2 battens made into a cross by the joiners.

Has that any religious connotations ?

:wings:

 

[missplumb]

not to me, but the joiner who made them and who was religious, wouldnt use nails on them!!!!!!

 

[Best]

Many copper cylinders over here are on batons. I prefer them that way so you can look below them with an inspection mirror. Ideally should be 2" high.
The actual base on a standard 18" diameter cylinder is only about 13 or 14" diameter, so if you use 3" or 4" width batons there won't be much of the base ring not supported.
Never seen a copper cylinder fail due to batons fitted
A copper cylinder should really be raised a little anyhow if possible, whether batons or a raised flat board. The bottom connections of heating coils tend to be no more than 100mm to centre, so that would mean a stub of a pipe to tee onto for the coil if cylinder not raised.

 

[Ray Stafford]

I think it must be regional. I've not come across it at all, although I have seen a whole load of differing "strengthening the base" solutions for both cylinders and CWSTs.

I'll ask one of the cylinder techies next time I see one.

 

[Best]

I think it must be regional. I've not come across it at all, although I have seen a whole load of differing "strengthening the base" solutions for both cylinders and CWSTs.

I'll ask one of the cylinder techies next time I see one.

Yes Ray, probably is regional. I do know that there was a recommendation here for cylinders to have 2" timber below them.
Other things are regional. For example, waste pipes tend to be virtually all push fit over here, done last 30 years. Shows plumbers just copy each other perhaps. We do tend to look at other plumbers work I guess.
We use Willis immersion heaters here - very popular and been produced probably 60 years. But it was local invention.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

ooo push fit hate the stuff cant beat glued

 

[Best]

ooo push fit hate the stuff cant beat glued

Yea, I agree. Push fit is more than good enough for waste pipes you can access, for below kitchen sinks, etc, but I don't like it long term below floors - especially if it is not clipped & supported well. To be fair to push fit wastes, I have never had any bother with my work as it is fitted well and on any add on work in later years I replace the fittings.
Solvent weld I used years ago (Marley) and obviously on 110mm pipes nowadays.
I would prefer the option of using either. Solvent weld pipe tended to be brittle from what I remember

 

[townfanjon]

For anybody whos interested, i have just spoken to a pal of mine who is the tech guy at a leading cylinder manufacturer.....
They always advise a solid base for all cylinders, but he says there are no hard and fast rules.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

For anybody whos interested, i have just spoken to a pal of mine who is the tech guy at a leading cylinder manufacturer.....
They always advise a solid base for all cylinders, but he says there are no hard and fast rules.

is that for unvented cylinder or just normal copper ones

 

[townfanjon]

He said all cylinders. He also agreed with me it did seem to be a bit regional, and had heard of them being put on battons.
Solid base for me everytime lol

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

Cheers TFJ in light of that I'll use one bit of batton and balance the cylinder on it haha :rofl:

 

[townfanjon]

Cheers TFJ in light of that I'll use one bit of batton and balance the cylinder on it haha :rofl:

Lol, you can balance it up with some mucky books .

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

Old pants!! Always yellowed and hard haha

 

[lame plumber]

all the old cyls I have replaced that pinhole are on solid bases, all those on battens seem to go on forever, never replaced one on battens yet, so I'll be continuing to wack em on battens.

 

[Masood]

all the old cyls I have replaced that pinhole are on solid bases, all those on battens seem to go on forever, never replaced one on battens yet, so I'll be continuing to wack em on battens.

Where's the job security in that?! You want the installation to last long enough so no-one can blame you, but short enough that you get regular work...

Isn't that how boiler manufacturers design boilers there days?

 

[Gray0689]

Yes I agree with best
Over here always see timber under a copper cylinder
And push fit waste pipes

 

[quality]

What about this space lol

 

[Best]

View attachment 21799

What about this space lol

You would have thought below the Neuralizer was where it should have been raised.

 

[plumben]

ive never seen one on batterns
see a lot of push-fit. everyones too tight to buy glue

 

[Cello]

Thanks for all the discussion. The answer to my question seems to be yes ...or no! I do appreciate the comment that putting a cylinder onto, e.g. a concrete floor that might harbour moisture, might well lead to enhanced corrosion if the cylinder is allowed to go cold and water condenses on it. I think that I'll go for the safest option which would be to use a sufficient number of battens to spread the load and avoid cylinder damage. Many thanks to all respondents for your useful advice.