Proper method for instaling push-fits

[Spriteguy]

Is their a magic technique for fitting push-fit bath tap tails to coper so that they don't come off 3 days later!

They look like you just push them on, but other than ensuring the copper pipe is clean and unmarked, is there anything else I should do to make sure that they don't pop off after I have left the job.

 

[ecowarm]

They can't be pushed fully on or you have put them on chrome pipe! Or change to compression fittings

Have you cut the ends of the pipe with a pipe cutter?

 

[WaterTight]

Don't think he was implying they have come off, but rather he fears they might. You can feel when they've gone on properly, they grab the pipe. It would be handy if you had a scrap of pipe to put them on and take them off a few times and you'll see what I mean. You push and then they sort of resist and then suddenly don't resist, go down another little bit and then stop. And then try and pull them off. If done properly you won't be able to pull them off. But make sure you use proper WRAS approved ones, JG speedit, Hep20, something like that. And as said cut pipe with a pipe slice and make sure it's clean, if wire wool won't do it use an abrasive strip.

 

[Spriteguy]

22mm pipe cut with proper pipe cutter so square and no burred ends. Copper pipe (not chromed)
The problem with these things when they let go they do so in a big way! I have only ever had 2 major leaks and both were when I had used push-fit.

Should I be twisting the fitting to get the teeth to bite into the copper better?

 

[Spriteguy]

Don't think he was implying they have come off, but rather he fears they might.

Sadly, not true! Fitted new bath taps on Monday, and no problems until today when the customer woke to the sound of running water....! Its an old house and water pressure isn't that good, so I wondered if this was the cause.

I don't think the tails were marked and were sold loose by local TP so I am not sure of the brand.

 

[mfgs]

Make sure its not old 3/4" pipe and is actually 22mm.

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

what make was the fitting

I would take it back to where you got it from and tell them the damage (if it caused some)

Your porbably lucky the water pressure is not good as would have been a lot worse

 

[desrob]

Make sure its not old 3/4" pipe and is actually 22mm.

i think you have hit the nail on the head,they'll be old 3/4, and the lack of pressure wont help.

 

[Spriteguy]

what make was the fitting

I would take it back to where you got it from and tell them the damage (if it caused some)

Your porbably lucky the water pressure is not good as would have been a lot worse

As I said, fitting was unmarked (i.e. no brand name on it) and sold loose so no packaging. But they are standard stock in Travis Perkins so I would expect it to be a known brand.

Damage is quite bad enough thanks! -Kitchen directly below bath! Looks like it ran for some time overnight before they heard it.

Pipe connected to is definitely new 22mm, not 3/4mm as I had renewed that too, when I fitted an isolating valve.

So question - do you just push them on? Or do you push and twist? or push, then pull hard to get them to "bite"? Or any other tips?

 

[WaterTight]

Hmm worrying really. Just a push on should be necessary. I always use compression under a bath when renewing taps. I use pushfit fittings elsewhere but JG speedfit which may be more reliable than the push fit connections on cheap flexi tails.

 

[Spriteguy]

Yes, I rarely use push fit although they are definitely gaining in popularity, so I decided that I was just being too cautious and too old-fashioned. So this time I opted to use them as it helped with a slight alignment issue. Should have stuck with compression!

I have had a close look at the pipe end. There are surface scrape marks along its length where the fitting has pulled off, but no very obvious bite marks so it looks like the teeth edges never engaged properly.

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

sounds like the teeth weren't sharpe enough to 'bite' the copper. Standard is in the name 'push fit' so push it on and move on

I would dig out your invoice from TP and let them know the damage it has caused taking pictures 'just in case'.

 

[steadyon]

As said earlier, the older (grey) Hep2O fittings you could feel. An initial easy movement, then a bit of resistance then a bit more, tighter movement and done. I don't like the new white ones, much less feel, so I've gone back to marking the insertion depth on the copper, then visually checking its gone on as it should. I always try and give them a bit of twist as they go together. Don't know why, just feels right.

 

[WaterTight]

There shouldn't be any bite marks.....should there? It's not like push-fit fittings actually make an imprint on the pipe. They just hold onto it.

 

[Spriteguy]

There shouldn't be any bite marks.....should there? It's not like push-fit fittings actually make an imprint on the pipe. They just hold onto it.

If that were the case, then why wouldn't they be suitable for chromed pipes? (Mine aren't chromed) I thought that the problem with chromed pipes is that the surface is too hard for the fitting to grip - which I rather interpreted as too hard for the teeth to bite into the surface of the pipe.

Anyway, its now replaced with a proper compression fitting. Kitchen is drying out and understanding customer seems happy again!

Still, it would be nice to know what went wrong for another time!

 

[WaterTight]

I thought it was because chrome was too slippery. But don't ask me, generally speaking, I really know not what I talk of.

 

[SimonG]

I thought it was because chrome was too slippery. But don't ask me, generally speaking, I really know not what I talk of.

Nice thought but it's down to the chrome being too tough for the stainless teeth to 'bite' into. Always nice to see the diy'er looking at the sppedfit fittings in the merchant and telling them not to stick their fingers in the fitting, and then watching them do exactly that.

 

[Guest123]

I push them on and then push them fully home and give them a pull to check if the ring has grabbed the pipe properll. With the twist and lock fittings, I hand tighten the twist and lock and then give it a pull. On both occasions, I always fit collet clips as these make sure the pipe won't come off accidentally.
Dont mix different brands on the barrier pipe as there is a slight difference in the diameter between brands or use a Conex compression fitting with TS (Speedfit) inserts and the metal ones for Hep. Use only copper olives though not brass ones as they compress properly onto the barrier pipe.
Never had one leak with Speedfit and I love the stuff.

 

[bigboy]

i always use a lubricant/silicone spray when using these fittings, as it goes in easily and u can be sure the pipe is fully in the fitting, also with speedfit always check blue/black o ring is in right order before i use, also make sure i always use inserts, and make sure ive tightened the fitting.

 

[kay-jay]

i always use a lubricant/silicone spray when using these fittings, as it goes in easily and u can be sure the pipe is fully in the fitting, also with speedfit always check blue/black o ring is in right order before i use, also make sure i always use inserts, and make sure ive tightened the fitting.

i'd be concerned that lubing it up would facillitate the fitting slipping off under pressure. when i get chance i might just do a pressure test comparison of whether this makes any difference

 

[WaterTight]

film it, youtube it, link it!

 

[wheeto]

i'd be concerned that lubing it up would facillitate the fitting slipping off under pressure. when i get chance i might just do a pressure test comparison of whether this makes any difference

Silicone should be fine, but I look forward to the empirical results!

 

[Guest123]

No way I'd ever consider using lube on pushfits, they don't need it any way and they should be kept in sealed bags. I use zip resealable freezer bags from our local pound shop.

I think we need a sticky about the correct installation procedure for pushfit fittings and pipe as it's coming up frequently. Any moderators thoughts on this?

 

[Gray0689]

Always use a bit of silicone grease on push fit fittings never had a problem with slipping off just a faulty green grab ring on hep20

 

[SimonG]

I wet the insert before putting in the pipe and wet again before inserting in fitting.

 

[bigboy]

in terms of lubing it, the silicone spray is specifically made for the plastic push fit pipe, its sold in plumbing shops and only facilitates the insertion process, once u can feel the pipe is full in the fitting u tighten the fitting, ang bang its watertight. in terms of doing a pressure test im willing to make a sportsmans bet it makes no difference, as the lube is only a thin layer and dries pretty quickly. its sole purpose is to ease the pipe into the fitting, and then depending on the pushfit the blue and black oring or the meatal and grey components should do their part and grip the pipe, all i know is when i dont use the spray sometimes i have to take the pipe out because im not sure if its inserted fully or not, as i always double check with pushfit, as when i first used it i put the pipe in ND ID THINK ITS IN AS ITS GRIPPED BUT WITH A BIT OF FORCE IT CMES OUT, WHEN I LUBE IM ALWAYS SURE ITS GONE IN FULLY. BY THE WAY I ONLY USE COPPER FOR THE LAST YEAR AS MY NEW FIRM IS OLD SCHOOL AND PREFERS COPPER AND HATES PUSHFIT AND ID HAE TO AGREE, PUSHFIT ONLY IN SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES!

 

[bigboy]

In general my process is>

take fitting apart and check o ring components ( correct order and present), in each fitting.
Insert insert
lube pipe
insert pipe into fitting
tighten fitting
pull pipe to make sure its gripped, and look at the top of the fitting where the push down component of the fitting is ( to release the fitting - speedfit) and that its locked.
Bang - its a good un

pressure tested alot of installs and never had a leak - so far anyway, probably tempting fate!

 

[AWheating]

i'd be concerned that lubing it up would facillitate the fitting slipping off under pressure. when i get chance i might just do a pressure test comparison of whether this makes any difference

many manufactures recommend using silicone grease on the rubbers before inserting, polyfit even used to come pre greased a few years ago.

 

[AWheating]

I would wonder how long the fittings that came off had been stored out of the plastic bag? one of the worst things you can do with plastic pushfit fittings is store them incorrectly. Small amounts of dust can effect how they work. same with the plastic pipe, small scratches can cause micro leaks.

Another thing to consider is that some manufactures will recommend that all fittings should be pressure tested as this ensure the grap rings fully lock into the pipe.

 

[WaterTight]

I store my push fit fittings in a fittings case used only for push fit. I did keep a couple of 15mm stop ends in my pocket for a while but then went to use them and neither would work, so it's true about storing them..

I don't lube them but I do give the inserts a quick french kiss before popping them in the pipe as it sends 'em home easier.

 

[Ravenrider]

I use speedfit all the time, i like knowing when i twist they are locked, the only time i've had a leak was where the fitting was not fully on the pipe, and luckly ive never had a leak from flexi pushfits (travis perkins ones). I have never used lube and was interested to hear about it. Sounds to me like youve just been unlucky with some faulty flexis.

 

[Rossi46]

The best pushfit for copper pipe is tectite sprint, anything else is too ugly to be on show.

 

[AWheating]

The best pushfit for copper pipe is tectite sprint, anything else is too ugly to be on show.

personally i would not have any plastic on show anyways, you cant solder within 600mm of the plastic pipe and fittings anyway so it makes it hard to convert to copper and solder outside the floor or wall.