Passable work or bodge job!?

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

Hi, just trying to get an opinion on some plumbing the bathroom/kitchen fitter is in the process of fitting for our new sink, shower & rad.

First pic is cold supply coming in through the wall from the toilet next door. There are double joists right under the stud wall, hence coming in hidden in the wall. Not keen on the speedfit joint.

Second pic shows the spaghetti junction of the remaining pipes. Of most concern is the copper radiator return pipe with the speedfit joint sitting on top of the joist!

Haven't spoken to the guy yet and I think the pipe is just about covered once he fills in the case but surely that joint will stop him from sticking the floorboard back on as I think it'll be proud of the wall.

Any advice gratefully received! Especially if there's a different way he can route it. Need to know if this is passable or I need to get him to rectify.

Cheers!

 

[king of pipes]

I think you know the answer very poor . Kop

 

[Riley]

It’s not the best but what can he do when the pipe comes in in Speedfit

 

[Welder]

Hi, just trying to get an opinion on some plumbing the bathroom/kitchen fitter is in the process of fitting for our new sink, shower & rad.

First pic is cold supply coming in through the wall from the toilet next door. There are double joists right under the stud wall, hence coming in hidden in the wall. Not keen on the speedfit joint.

Second pic shows the spaghetti junction of the remaining pipes. Of most concern is the copper radiator return pipe with the speedfit joint sitting on top of the joist!

Haven't spoken to the guy yet and I think the pipe is just about covered once he fills in the case but surely that joint will stop him from sticking the floorboard back on as I think it'll be proud of the wall.

Any advice gratefully received! Especially if there's a different way he can route it. Need to know if this is passable or I need to get him to rectify.

Cheers!

View attachment 36909

View attachment 36910

Fact is, any push fit joint under perm tension, as these are, is a weak joint. The manu specifically advises against it.

Personally I'd prefer copper under floor where there are inaccessible

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

Cheers for the replies. If it came straight in through the wall in copper what would he be able to do different? The feed in the toilet is copper, then splits after feeding the toilet to plastic pipe and just pokes through the stud wall and into the wall in the bathroom as shown in the photo.

 

[Riley]

Well he could do a joint in copper in the wall which would be preferable. You say you don’t like the speedfit joint but do you know why??

 

[Harvest Fields]

I would say he has done what he could without ripping all the plastic out and starting again.

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

No reason other than it'll be buried in the wall.

Regarding all the joints under the floor, it's a tricky one and I'm no plumber but cold feed is coming in through the wall then needs to split to feed shower and then sink. Can't see how he'd do it any other way? Told me it's all Speedfit these days for stuff that's not visible. The hot feed comes in from the opposite end of the room, hence spaghetti junction in the middle!

 

[Harvest Fields]

No reason other than it'll be buried in the wall.

Regarding all the joints under the floor, it's a tricky one and I'm no plumber but cold feed is coming in through the wall then needs to split to feed shower and then sink. Can't see how he'd do it any other way? Told me it's all Speedfit these days for stuff that's not visible. The hot feed comes in from the opposite end of the room, hence spaghetti junction in the middle!

It is only speedfit where not seen if it is the engineers preference mate. I run in copper myself.

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

I would say he has done what he could without ripping all the plastic out and starting again.

That's what I'm thinking. Hence me asking whether it's passable. Spoke to his boss and they said they'll push the radiator return pipe further into the wall to clear for the floorboards.

 

[Harvest Fields]

That's what I'm thinking. Hence me asking whether it's passable. Spoke to his boss and they said they'll push the radiator return pipe further into the wall to clear for the floorboards.

If the return pipe is the one resting on the joist. I wouldn’t push it further into the wall. I would move it so that it is inside the same notch that the speedfit is in. It is big enough.

 

[Riley]

That was all I meant you don’t want a plastic joint in the wall but if the incoming is plastic you have little option

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

If the return pipe is the one resting on the joist. I wouldn’t push it further into the wall. I would move it so that it is inside the same notch that the speedfit is in. It is big enough.

Yes it is. So where the copper drops down from the left hand radiator valve, instead of turning right, just drop further down and follow the joist to the notch in the joist with the other speedfit. Should I tell him to change the cold feed in the wall from plastic to copper and weld the joint? Is a push fit joint in the wall a massive no no? Thanks for the help so far, hugely appreciated

 

[Riley]

You shouldn’t have any mechanical joints in a wall

 

[Harvest Fields]

Yes and yes. But not sure how much of an extra cost it may be to change the cold feed.

 

[snowhead]

As Yorks Dave, the Speedfit joints look to be under strain.
Some additional support with clips may help, as below, particularly if it's mains pressure as the pipework will pulse as showers and WC inlets open and close.
Anywhere speedfit joins copper, the Speedfit and or joint will move the copper won't.

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

Yes and yes. But not sure how much of an extra cost it may be to change the cold feed.

Cheers mate. I'll get him to reroute. Regarding the joint in the wall, on a scale of ok to hell no, where are we with it?

 

[Riley]

Cheers mate. I'll get him to reroute. Regarding the joint in the wall, on a scale of ok to hell no, where are we with it?

They aren’t designed to be in a wall pure and simple

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

They aren’t designed to be in a wall pure and simple

Okay, will have to be changed then. I presume soldered copper joint is ok?

 

[Harvest Fields]

Cheers mate. I'll get him to reroute. Regarding the joint in the wall, on a scale of ok to hell no, where are we with it?

If it was my house. I would change it.

 

[gmartine]

As per Snowhead's idea above , a brace between joists and clip to that, anything buried soldered copper only.

 

[WC1]

If you've written that at 3am you know the answer already.
Is he qualified and insured for plumbing work?

 

[Scott_D]

Sometimes the job is equal to the price

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

Let's just say that he's an 'approved fitter' for a certain large bathroom and kitchen company. He's now changed the joint in the wall to a solder and the water feed from the toilet to copper. The rest is the same, I think it'll be ok, doesn't look under strain when you're standing over it. The pipe on the joist he dropped down a few mm by shaving a bit of the joist, not the best I know but I think if I go back again and tell him to re-route he'll **** me!!

 

[Riley]

You are the customer. Never think like that. This is how you get all the way to the finished article and are not happy with the end result it’s a communication thing and any decent engineer will be happy to discuss your thoughts or concerns

 

[Riley]

And you can see they’re under. Strain Speed fit is designed for quick installation it’s not designed to be pulled on tight bends

 

[Welder]

As per Snowhead's idea above , a brace between joists and clip to that, anything buried soldered copper only.

AND taped up so any potential lime cannot pin hole the copper

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

And you can see they’re under. Strain Speed fit is designed for quick installation it’s not designed to be pulled on tight bends

From the original pic and the four white pipes which ones do you think are tightly bending? Just look a wee bit curved?

 

[Harvest Fields]

AND taped up so any potential lime cannot pin hole the copper

Let’s hope it is taped

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

Let’s hope it is taped

It's not yet but will be!

 

[Welder]

Just to point out here that I assumed the whole installation was by your plumber. If I was wrong I apologise.

If you require them to reconfigure existing pipework then you will, rightly, incur additional cost. That said, it should not be unreasonable and you will have a better safer installation as a consequence.

 

[Welder]

From the original pic and the four white pipes which ones do you think are tightly bending? Just look a wee bit curved?

Plastic pipes should not be bent as that tensions the fitting. JG fittings are allowed 5 degrees only.

 

[Riley]

The two on the right will definitely be putting strain on the oring in the fitting

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

Just to point out here that I assumed the whole installation was by your plumber. If I was wrong I apologise.

If you require them to reconfigure existing pipework then you will, rightly, incur additional cost. That said, it should not be unreasonable and you will have a better safer installation as a consequence.

Basically the bathroom and kitchen was first installed by different fitters and was a total bodge job. This guy has been sent to rectify and reinstall everything. The new Speedfit plastic pipe work wasn't done by this guy, he chased the radiator pipes into the wall and joined them to the existing pipes laid by the first fitters. Originally the cold water feed came straight in on plastic pipe in an arc, kinda 40 degrees or so and dropped under the floorboards, and just plastered over!

I do feel sorry for him as I'm braking his balls over everything given the first installation was a nightmare.

 

[Pickwickpick]

Be nice to him, offer him lots of tea & cake, but insist on getting the job done properly, especially seeing as his firm bodged the initial install. If he's a decent tradesmen he won't mind. You don't want to have any regrets or issues further down the line when it will become much harder to get things rectified!

 

[Riley]

If he’s there to rectify then he will understand where you are coming from. Jut lots of “I know it’s not your fault but...” and tea goes a long way.

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

If he’s there to rectify then he will understand where you are coming from. Jut lots of “I know it’s not your fault but...” and tea goes a long way.

All a bit frosty at the moment but not a total breakdown. We're all a bit stressed for obvious reasons. Them because they're picking up someone else's Rubbish and me because I have to make sure it's all done right this time. Thanks for all the replies and advice.

 

[Harvest Fields]

It might be worth a chat to explain what you expect and what they are doing. If they are a new company correcting someone else’s mess they should be cut a bit of slack to be fair.

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

It might be worth a chat to explain what you expect and what they are doing. If they are a new company correcting someone else’s mess they should be cut a bit of slack to be fair.

My thinking too, hence why I didn't go back and tell him to change the radiator flow and return pipes which curve. I reckon they'll be ok as the water pressure won't be as much as the hot/cold feeds to the shower. May come back and haunt me I know!

 

[Riley]

Are you on a sealed system?? Also as the pipes heat and cool they expand and contract this is equally disturbing to the o rings as the pipes will move. Albeit fractionally but it still moves

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

Are you on a sealed system?? Also as the pipes heat and cool they expand and contract this is equally disturbing to the o rings as the pipes will move. Albeit fractionally but it still moves

Combi boiler

 

[gmartine]

AND taped up so any potential lime cannot pin hole the copper

Fabric tape will do, can also be used to hold up the wall.

 

[Riley]

Combi boiler

So it’s a sealed system at a minimum of 1bar rising to 2-2.5 when hot. Up to you

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

So it’s at a sealed system at a minimum of 1bar rising to 2-2.5 when hot. Up to you

You've lost me on that one I'm afraid! In my mind the chances of one of the O rings popping is relatively small. Just want him to get on with the rest of the job. We're in a Victorian property, it's amazing to me all the little bodges and quick fixes hidden under the floorboards, the ceilings and walls! You can get too stressed over every minute detail of a job and it just ends up with a Soded off workman

 

[Riley]

Ok up to you but your heating could conceivably rise pressure wise to 2.5 bar which is likely higher than your incoming mains. For the sake of two elbows I’d change it. And the minute details as you call them can often be the difference between a good and a bad job

 

[Harvest Fields]

You have to do what you think is best mate. We are only giving you recommendations on how we think that it should be done. But as long as you are happy.

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

You have to do what you think is best mate. We are only giving you recommendations on how we think that it should be done. But as long as you are happy.

Cheers, I'll be happy when it's all in and there are no leaks. Thanks again for the guidance.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Cheers, I'll be happy when it's all in and there are no leaks. Thanks again for the guidance.

Just bare that in mind if one of the John guest push fit fitting leak later on.

 

[Burger]

In my honest opinion, I wouldn’t be concealing a speedfit joint. The copper to the radiator needs to be protected from corrosion and movement (clipped).

The water regulations state the following:

No pipe shall be embedded in any wall or solid floor without meeting certain conditions.

No pipe shall be installed in a way it may become unduly warmed.

https://www.wras.co.uk/downloads/pu...eral/para_7_guidance_version_2_july_2014.pdf/

 

[Keith O'KEEFFE]

In my honest opinion, I wouldn’t be concealing a speedfit joint. The copper to the radiator needs to be protected from corrosion and movement (clipped).

The water regulations state the following:

No pipe shall be embedded in any wall or solid floor without meeting certain conditions.

No pipe shall be installed in a way it may become unduly warmed.

https://www.wras.co.uk/downloads/pu...eral/para_7_guidance_version_2_july_2014.pdf/

Since the original picture, the plastic feed coming into the room through the wall has been changed to copper and the Speedfit elbow dropping the pipe down is now soldered copper. It switches to plastic pipe once under the floor. The plastic joint on the right hand side of the radiator flow is now in the void between the joists. Only thing that will be buried now is soldered copper piping.