Cold Water just wont shut down!!!!

[Pakamish]

All need some help. Im trying to replace my basin and I have the old copper pipes installed. So I went outside my flat and turned off the mains. I also turned off the stop valve under the kitchen sink. This stopped the hot and cold water for the kitchen and the hot water for the bathroom. for some weird reason the cold water in the bathroom keeps on running i found another hidden stop valve in the bathroom. Used all my strenth and half a bottle of WD 40. This tap wont turn. its one of those old T taps. its in an awkard space but i manage to hit with a hammer.. still it wont turn!!!! Is there any way to turn the bathroom cold water off or get this stop valve to turn???? help would be much appreciated.

 

[Puddle]

Well if you hit it with a hammer and it still did not turn, I just don’t know, every time I hit things with my hammer they always works!! , maybe the hammer is not big enough. I find the Rothenberger hammers the best; you can add weights as required
However
Your cold in the bathroom is probably from a tank in the roof,if you let run with mains stopcock off should drain down and water will stop after a while ,then you can sort out basin and replace stopcock that will not turn

As you are living in a flat,your tank my have seperate isolation in roof and may shut other flats off,you may have to get someone in to freeze pipework and fit new isolation to allow works to continue

 

[Smcart5]

I am puzzled, if the system is indirect then it would explain why his cold tap in the bathroom does not switch off after shutting off the mains, he's emptying the cwsc, which would take a while and give the illusion of a faulty stoptap...

Edit, puddle-if his valve under the sink turned off both his hot and cold water wouldn't that mean his system is direct and would not have a separate storage tank, , the cold still flowing in the bathroom but not the hot, and the kitchen taps both off from one valve puzzles me

 

[REDSAW]

you may find this guy, (other than getting in a plumber) could give you a few tricks especially with the hammer.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dijAhBgEgDs&feature=related]YouTube - plumber[/ame]

 

[Pakamish]

Puddle, I see my hammer hitting has amused to.. ill be sure to get a sledge hammer next time. to go back to you point regarding the tank. Im pretty sure there arent any tanks. There is only on flat above me and its roof is too narrow. Say for instance you are correct and i let the water ran while turning off the mains. How long will it take before the cold water stops flowing? Also is there some stop tap that can be screwed into cold water pipe while the water is running to shut it off?

 

[dontknowitall]

Pakamish

A thought ... is this your flat? If not, don't assume the hot and cold are the right way round. (I've come across a hot tap (with a red marker) which was the cold and the cold tap (with a blue marker) which was the hot.) So only real way to test is run the hot and see which pipes are hot and cold.

As mentioned above it does sound as if there's a cistern somewhere. If there's an open vented hot water cylinder there will be a cistern to feed it which could be a small tank that is completely hidden and boxed in somewhere. If you've turned off the incoming supply and there is water still coming out of the taps it does mean there's a storage of water somewhere!

Rather than us guessing, if you could say:

What type of boiler (standard or combination or other?).
What's in the airing cupboard (assuming there is an airing cupboard or similar)? For example, is there an immersion heater in a hot water cylinder or is there no airing cupboard?
And presumably you have one bathroom, one kitchen and nothing else?

Knowing these things and being a flat it should be quite simple for someone to tell you what to look for.

Little tip ... next time you take a hammer to a tap, make sure you know how much water might flood out before you break the tap! In my experience taps break rather too easily!!

Hope this helps.

 

[traineedrip]

have you got any pictures of the hammer


if you open the kitchen tap full it will have a good pressure, compare that to the bathroom cold which will have little pressure (tank fed).

let it run with basin /bath cold taps open for 30mins... should be long enough.

 

[Pakamish]

LOL. Ok i get it with the hammer thing now.. Knowitall. Here are the answers to your questions: Yes it is my flat on the ground floor.. The tap im referring too is in a airing cuboard (hidden) with only a small opening for the tap. I have a combi boiler. (vailant). Just one kitchen and bathroom. I can confirm that it is indeed the cold water that is running when the mains is turned off. The pressure is regular so I assume its coming from a tank like you said. are there any other ways around this besides letting the tap run for 30minutes? whould this affect other residents or is the tank only feeding my flat?

 

[GreenArmy]

Pakamish, First of all you need to establish if the basin cold water is tank fed, this is easy. Run the basin cold tap and attempt to stop the flow of water by putting your thumb over the spout. If you can stop the flow by applying a bit of thumb pressure then your running off a tank. Otherwise if you get very wet and cant stop it then it will be mains fed.
So if its tank fed then i would suggest asking upstairs if you can pop in the loft to tie up the ball valve, then just open basin tap jump back up in loft and watch to see that the tank is emptying. Then wait.
If like alot of flats that i work in and you dont get on with your neighbour and he/she wont let you in the loft then i would like to know if you are a lease holder or free holder.

 

[dontknowitall]

It sounds as if your kitchen is supplied direct from the mains and the pipework will tee off from the mains a) to your kitchen tap and then b) to this hidden cistern.

In theory it shouldn't affect the other flats. You could drain it for 30 minutes (via that bath which is quicker) but what happens if, when you drain it, the ball valve sticks open when it fills again? This will leave you with a major problem and it happens quite frequently. If the ball valve fails you can't turn the water off, expect by going without water in the flat until the cistern is found and fixed.

Was about to type more, but Mark Moss has put up the help you need.

Of course, if all you neighbours get on well, one of them might be able to tell you how to turn the water off.

 

[Pakamish]

thanks..Ill try my upstairs neighbour tonight. Ive pestered him about a pipe leak in the past so fingers crossed he will play along. ill let you know what i found out. thx.

As I thought. The neighbour does not know where the tank is located. Now im really stuck.. any other ideas please???

Just came across this product..Pipe freezing kit from screwfix.. does this stuff actually work? and would it really feeze the water to allow me to fit a stop valve???

 

[GreenArmy]

You could call a Plumber perhaps? Or use a pipe freezing kit? Or cut pipe live (run bath tap whilst doing this to reduce pressure) and whack on a ball'o'fix valve? Oh by the way, keep your hammer handy, this may come in useful to throw around the room if it all goes wrong.
I would be inclined to phone a plumber, they are not as expensive as you might think.

 

[WaterTight]

Or cut pipe live (run bath tap whilst doing this to reduce pressure) and whack on a ball'o'fix valve?

Presuming you're serious (I've not heard anyone say you can do that before) how much pressure does that actually reduce it by? I'm guessing only a tiny bit. Also I guess it would only work if the bath was on the pipe run before the basin..

 

[Pakamish]

Mark, all good advise thanks. Here is my plan for the weekend:

1. Get the freezing kit and freeze the pipe between the bath and the basin (it actually freezes for 30 minutes according to reviews)
2. Run the bath to reduce pressure on basin.
3. I already have one of those screw in taps on the pipe. it allows another pipe to branch off the existing colder water feed. Then ill get a plastic pipe attached and run it to my bath just incase the freeze thaws.
4. In the meantime ill install a stop valve.

That should hopefully do it, which should give me pleanty of time to replace the basin. Please stop me if you think its a crazy idea! BTW, the hammer wont be far from my side incase anything goes wrong

 

[dontknowitall]

To me that's a risky way of doing things. If you do that, I'd have a Speedfit stop end to hand.

If you're cutting through the pipe and it all goes wrong (doesn't freeze or something) you'll have a major pipe leak.

If you get a leak while cutting you'll need to continue cutting as quickly as you can (a pipe cutter is better to use than a hacksaw because a plastic stop end might be damaged when putting on a hacksawed cut).

Once cut, you can slap the stop end on and have a think.

Did you run the cold bath tap for about a minute or just a few seconds? If there is definitely no cistern the water coming out of the tap will be from the pipes alone. But if you run the tap for a minute you have definitely got a cistern and it would be best to find it.

Good luck, whatever you choose to do.

 

[Pakamish]

Hey.. good news. Ive done it!.. used the freezing kit. Cutt the copper pipes, inserted the speedfit stop valve and bobs your uncle.. The only problem i have is an over tightened thread for the pipe going into the mono block mixer.. any ideas to stop that leak apart from the white tape?

 

[dontknowitall]

Nice one Pakamish. Did you use a fibre washer? If you didn't that's probably what the problem. And if you wrapped the tape around the thread that won't really do much except possibly ruining the thread.

But good one for doing the hard work.

 

[Winston]

Well done but in future if you freeze a pipe you shouldnt turn any taps on as this can cause the ice block to thaw.

 

[Pakamish]

Oh Man! another problem.. the basin is now connected. But the chrome waste fitting has two holes in it.. i assume this is for the overflow. There is also a hole in the basin which aligns with one of the holes on the fitting.. but as soon as it turn on the water is leaks .. what should i do?

 

[Phil]

Where exactly is it leaking from?
The seal between the basin and the waste fitting or the seal between the waste and the trap?

Most of the time I ditch the cheap rubber sealing washer and use 'vanity basin washer', you can get them from B&Q (not that I do) they are coned in shape and provide a much better seal.

Did you use any silicone when assembling the waste?