B
Bagsy
Lets simplify this. To your original post and question. The answer is definately no. with out question.
- Thread starter mutley racers
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Discuss Can i service my own boiler if am not gas safe registered in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
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F
fuzzy
incorrect, you can whether gas safe registered or not. the issue is competence not gsr
B
Bagsy
absolutely correct in my last post, phone h&S or gas safe there in no question on this absolutely. If you think otherwise you need to do some revision and get specific answers to your thoughts. The original post was can I service my gas boiler If am not gas safe registered. The answer is no you cant. Nothing to do with competetance..read the regs
Halesowen1
Gas Engineer
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- 603
So did you service it yourself and are you and your family still alive??
E
ecowarm
The answer is yes.
T
tamz
A bit of a quote from the regs.
Regulation 3 Qualification and supervision
(1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.
(2) The employer of any person carrying out such work for that employer, every other employer and self-employed person who has control to any extent of such work and every employer and self-employed person who has required such work to be carried out at any place of work under his control shall ensure that paragraph (1) above is complied with in relation to such work.
(3) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2) above and subject to paragraph (4) below, no employer shall allow any of his employees to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of this paragraph.
Guidance note on 3:3
45 Anyone who does work on a gas fitting or gas storage vessel must be competent to do so, whether or not they are required to be a member of an approved class of persons. Therefore, do-it-yourself installers and those performing favours for friends and relatives all need to have the required competence. The level and range of competence should match the full extent of work done, but needs only to be sufficient for and relevant to that work. Employers of gas fitting operatives are also required under regulation 3(2) to ensure that their employees have the required competence for the work undertaken; in addition to ensuring they are properly experienced and trained (see paragraph 47), this involves ongoing monitoring of performance standards, as necessary.
And from COP20
7 Employers of gas installers will not be complying with their duties under sections 2(1), 2(2)(c) and 3(1) of the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974 (HSW Act) or with Regulation 3 of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1984 if the installer is not competent. Similarly, a self-employed gas installer will not be complying with his duty under section 3(2) of the HSW Act or with Regulation 3 of the 1984 Regulations if he is not competent. An employee or a person working on his own behalf (viz D.l.Y) will not comply with Regulation 3 of the 1984 Regulations if he is not competent.
Anyone doing DIY work on gas does NOT need to be registered with Gas Safe BUT they DO need to be competent.
The answer to the original question of can i service my own boiler if i am not Gas Safe registered is yes if you are competent.
Competence in gas installation requires enough knowledge, practical skill and experience to carry out the job in hand safely, with due regard to good working practice.
Proving it other than by doing ACS is a bit more difficult.
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- 647
Complete piffle Mutley, you know the answer is no. If you want to service it then go to your bank; draw money out (several thousand); get some training and when you pass your ACS service your boiler
I hate to say it but I think the answer is yes you can.
However as several have mentioned you have to show competence and that is what ACS is, proof that you are Competent.
Trying to prove Competence any other way than passing ACS is next to impossible as this is the approved standard.
However as several have mentioned you have to show competence and that is what ACS is, proof that you are Competent.
Trying to prove Competence any other way than passing ACS is next to impossible as this is the approved standard.
J
Jonwells
I think, and have know to be wrong, that under the old regs, if you were classed as competent you can service an appliance as long as there is no financial gain, (wage), but I think gas safe shut the loop hole saying, if you touch any gas appliance, your own or not and your not registered, it against the law.
It was changed to stop landlords blowing up students, I cannot quote bylaw or case histories, but I'm sure it true.
Best thing to do mate, is leave it alone, depending on what boiler it is, rsf, balanced flue, HE, open flued etc, depends on the checks you need to do, if it's a modern HE, YOU need a flue gas analyser, get it done safely for the sake of £50 or so.
But don't listen to me, I have saved about 20 peoples life's in my 31years in the trade, due to poorly or not serviced correctly appliances. Jon
It was changed to stop landlords blowing up students, I cannot quote bylaw or case histories, but I'm sure it true.
Best thing to do mate, is leave it alone, depending on what boiler it is, rsf, balanced flue, HE, open flued etc, depends on the checks you need to do, if it's a modern HE, YOU need a flue gas analyser, get it done safely for the sake of £50 or so.
But don't listen to me, I have saved about 20 peoples life's in my 31years in the trade, due to poorly or not serviced correctly appliances. Jon
T
tamz
Gas Safe, no matter how the sales rep comes across, do not make the rules. They are made by others.
I agree with you tamz too many people think that Gas Safe or Corgi are the law.
When we were all Corgi registered, I had no end of arguments with people that say you "had" to be Corgi registered to work on a gas appliance when in fact you had to show competence and if you had passed ACS you were deemed as competent.
Its just years of clever advertising by Corgi.
For instance has anyone ever been asked to see their ACS card??
Of course not. Joe public have never even heard of ACS.
In what other trade do you have to qualify and then pay to register with someone else to be able to work?
When we were all Corgi registered, I had no end of arguments with people that say you "had" to be Corgi registered to work on a gas appliance when in fact you had to show competence and if you had passed ACS you were deemed as competent.
Its just years of clever advertising by Corgi.
For instance has anyone ever been asked to see their ACS card??
Of course not. Joe public have never even heard of ACS.
In what other trade do you have to qualify and then pay to register with someone else to be able to work?
S
shorticus
So in summary, yes you can service your own boiler but...there's not a single person on this forum who'd want to be in your shoes should things go bandy!!
T
tamz
Well even i have never serviced my own boiler.............ever............can't be rsed. If it coughs i will get the boy to fit a new one :lol:
I still have a 15 year old GW swiftflow in my house.
I must have changed everything inside of it and every time I say thats it Im fitting a new one.
Still not got around to it.
You know what they say "never buy a house from a builder" its certainly true in my case, ffs I have condemned better.
Just too much like a bus-mans holiday when you get home.
S
shorticus
stuck a probe in mine once just to see what the reading was and it was sweet as, one 'non-intrusive' service completed!
Did powerflush my system a couple of weeks ago though just to see what came out, pretty clean as it happens...
S
shorticus
Just too much like a bus-mans holiday when you get home.[/QUOTE]
...you should see my bathroom...second thoughts best not
...you should see my bathroom...second thoughts best not
T
tamz
I've got a capped blow off on mine:smilewinkgrin:
S
shorticus
no worries if the wet vac is to hand eh!
T
tamz
I don't really care. The hoover is her job. More chance of winning the lottery.
J
Jonwells
Just checked about doing your own gas work, 1998 regs, in a nutshell, if your doing it for no reward and are deemed competent, you can do what you like. great.
T
tamz
That is the proviso!
B
Bagsy
I think this is dangerous even to discuss this as there are so many differences of opinion. To be sure you should ask the appropriate authorities. I have found this on the Gas Safe website which some of you may find interesting http://www.User PlumbersForums.net Instead - Copy the content, don't link to it.co.uk/pdf/Who can legally work on a gas appliance.pdf after all they are appointed by the HSE. So one would assume that they would not give out false information.
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S
sanddobber
So there you are finished with the ratrace and retired your Gas safe registration lapsed and the boiler packs up.
Well.........................?
Well.........................?
S
sparra1100
its not a touchy subject would you be allowed in court to represent someone without the relievent qualys NO you can represent yourself but you wont get anyware cos you wouldnt no what your talking about same with the gas how do you no how to do a tightness test and what it is and when to do it how do you no what parts youve got how do you no when you disconect something its not leaking the slightest amount that can become id over a few days plus a boiler is a gas fitting and you have to be compentant and be of a chosen orginisation which is gas safe at the moment dont think money comes into it except when you have to pay a big fine out go on the hse website and see all the people whove been done for not being gas safe who were corgi but its run out they would be classed as competetant but they still got done ad leave well alone mate and get some one in
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M
mitchellplumber
under no circumstances should anybody who is not gas safe registered carry out gas work on any property. Anyone doing so can be reported here. Gas Safe Register | Ensure your gas engineer is registered. Hope tthis helps ;0)
M
mitchellplumber
Call in a Gas Safe Registered engineer.... stand over him and watch he's doing it right! ;0) Ask him loads of questions about what regs have changed since you were a lad ;0)
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- 647
Right can't resist this!!no person can work on Gas unless competent to do so [ Rule 3 (1)] A competent person is someone who is a member of a recommended body by the H.S.E. [rule 3. (3)] namely Gas Safe, If you are not a member you cannot work on a Gas appliance.... game, set and match
M
mitchellplumber
Well said Rory D :0)
- Messages
- 967
Can't believe it took 80 posts to come to this conclusion!!! But CAN he service his boiler if he's not GSR??!! LOL
F
fuzzy
read em mate, im afraid i am right
F
fuzzy
where does it say in the regs "A competent person is someone who is a member of a recommended body by the H.S.E." ?
Here is an extract from the regs below
3.—(1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.(2) The employer of any person carrying out such work for that employer, every other employer and self-employed person who has control to any extent of such work and every employer and self-employed person who has required such work to be carried out at any place of work under his control shall ensure that paragraph (1) above is complied with in relation to such work.(3) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2) above and subject to paragraph (4) below, no employer shall allow any of his employees to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of this paragraph.(4) The requirements of paragraph (3) above shall not apply in respect of—
(a)
the replacement of a hose or regulator on a portable or mobile space heater; or(b)
the replacement of a hose connecting a re-fillable cylinder to installation pipework.
F
fuzzy
i am right in saying that to work on gas for no gain you only have to be competent but to work for gain you must be registered.
However what you have added is an interpretation of competence, if so it adds another dimension that suggested competence means registered?? seems to contradict the previous statement, however if you prove me wrong ill gladly admit it, i would just like to see where it says what you have posted as i cannot find it
BTW I dont agree with the interpretation, but im happy to abide by it if its proven. You may ask why i dont agree with it, its becaus ei have a friend who worked at BG all his life, helped set up acops, heped set up ACS, was an inspector for year, he is now retired, if he wants to service his boiler, by your understanding he is not competent, i would disagree
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E
ecowarm
I have to agree with you Fuzzy, also some right muppets who are supposedly competant I wouldn't let loose with a gas lighter!
F
fuzzy
ive added info in terms of an edit, that explains why i dont agree, however if this interpretation is proved law ill happily abide, even if i dont agree
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- 4,294
Its a wording thing is competence I did at the very start of my working life a mechanical / electrical engineering degree (7 years) and when I was presented my stupid hat was I ready for really proving my competence
To be honest no not really it has taken over 20 years to prove that to my self let alone anyone else, if some one can prove previous experience or simply be successfull in siting an assessment then competence is proved
Am I correct or not
To be honest no not really it has taken over 20 years to prove that to my self let alone anyone else, if some one can prove previous experience or simply be successfull in siting an assessment then competence is proved
Am I correct or not
E
ecowarm
Exactly if you are quallified for gas work for 30yrs and stop paying GS for some reason, like retirement or for any other reason are you now a cowboy? or incompetant? of course not, and if you service your own boiler or familly and freinds for no gain, are you likely to leave in a dangeous state or not working correctly, of course not.
F
fuzzy
Id say not mate, you are possibly much safer than a newly qualified gsr. im not convinced by the wording suggested and think i good layer could defend you, however im looking forward to reading it for myself when it is pointed out were it is
E
ecowarm
I think this thread is weather you can service your own boiler if competant but not registered
P
Puddle
Think the answer is no,coz after so many posts and the length of time of discussion,think the boiler is past servicing and replacement now required
so can op replace his own boiler without.................
so can op replace his own boiler without.................
G
gaspastemania
as puddle states does it really matter?
In reality i come across so much gas diy its unreal and what do gas safe do???
nothing!!!
So its irrelevant because people will service there own boiler competant or not .
In reality i come across so much gas diy its unreal and what do gas safe do???
nothing!!!
So its irrelevant because people will service there own boiler competant or not .
I was mearly saying that if somebody who is unregistered wants to service there own boiler they are unlikely to care what and how its written in the regulations. Any competent person will be registered and working in the industry, if you are not then why be bothered whats written down as you dont care enough to follow it anyway.
C
CMairiD
I can't believe I've allowed myself to be sucked into this, but ...
Those that are looking for GSIUR 1998, it can be found here: Safety in the installation and use of gas systems and appliances - L56
I would suggest pages 25 & 26, paying CLOSE attention to guidance points 45 & 47.
Those that are looking for GSIUR 1998, it can be found here: Safety in the installation and use of gas systems and appliances - L56
I would suggest pages 25 & 26, paying CLOSE attention to guidance points 45 & 47.
F
fuzzy
wouldnt say its irrelevant just because some people dont abide, like suggesting pointless having speeding laws because some people speed
F
fuzzy
not all competent people are registered
F
fuzzy
You mean these? Which seem to support what I have been saying, however RoryD quoted something else, could RoryD tell us were this quote came from please
45 Anyone who does work on a gas fitting or gas storage vessel must be
competent to do so, whether or not they are required to be a member of
an approved class of persons. Therefore, do-it-yourself gas engineers and
those performing favours for friends and relatives all need to have the required
competence. The level and range of competence should match the full extent of
work done, but needs only to be sufficient for and relevant to that work. Employers
of gas fitting operatives are also required under regulation 3(2) to ensure that their
employees have the required competence for the work undertaken; in addition to
ensuring they are properly experienced and trained (see paragraph 47), this involves
ongoing monitoring of performance standards, as necessary.
47 Competence depends on a combination of training and experience. The
ACOP Standards of training in safe gas installation provides guidance both on
the scope of training and the need for proper assessment/reassessment of gas
fitting operatives (see Appendix 4). Although failure to observe any provision of the
Code is not in itself an offence, that failure may be taken by a Court in criminal
proceedings as proof that a person has contravened a particular regulation.
The ACOP extends to gas installation work at premises excluded from these
Regulations but subject to the HSW Act sections 2 and 3 – see paragraph 42 and
Appendix 3. The nationally accredited certification scheme introduced in January
1998 requires individual gas fitting operatives to have their competence assessed
at five-yearly intervals by a certification body accredited by the United Kingdom
Accreditation Service (UKAS)
D
dontknowitall
And not all registered people are competent, from what I read ...
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Reply to Can i service my own boiler if am not gas safe registered in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
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