shes a gonner

[Guest123]

t
So the Scottish people running the no campaigns are suddenly English? What will happen IF that tosspot salmond wins? Would they be deported?

The majority of donors giving large donations are from South of the Border. Why the hell would anyone be deported, grow up.

Alex Salmond has done more for Scotland than any other political leader. He was elected in a landslide victory and every poll since has shown that the SNP would win again with an increased majority. You know nothing about Scottish politics, don't live here and are quoting the nonsense straight out of the Tory funded NO campaign. Your better spending time trying to get a better deal for England than worrying about us.

 

[Dotty]

So basically if you don't go along with the yes campaign, you're a Tory. Grow up yourself.

I grew up under Thatcher. I became politically aware during her reign.

I will never EVER vote Tory.

Bored with baiting you now Colin. Go ahead and blindly follow Salmond with his 'grass is greener' rhetoric. I reckon you'd be in for a nasty shock.

 

[Guest123]

So basically if you don't go along with the yes campaign, you're a Tory. Grow up yourself.

I grew up under Thatcher. I became politically aware during her reign.

I will never EVER vote Tory.

Bored with baiting you now Colin. Go ahead and blindly follow Salmond with his 'grass is greener' rhetoric. I reckon you'd be in for a nasty shock.

Who said that if you don't go along with the YES campaign then you're a Tory? Not me. What I said was that the NO campaign is being largely funded from those South of the Border who are not even eligible to vote in the referendum. Most of these are Tory sympathisers.
http://3meninablog.wordpress.com/20...tory-millionaire-bankrolling-better-together/

The grass is not greener but it will be a hell of a lot fairer and better than it is just now. The YES campaign is not all about Alex Salmond and the SNP. There are a wide range of political and non political groups supporting it.

There will be no border controls, no foreign embassy based in London an no one will be getting deported. This is the scaremongering we've come to expect from the NO campaign. Not a lot will change except political independence and the right to take decisions in Scotland by the people who care most about it, the Scottish people themselves.

If you want real equality in the UK, campaign for an English parliament to deal solely with affairs in England and for the benefit of the English people. That is only fair.

 

[Mike Jackson]

I resent the fact that Scottish and Welsh MPs can vote on matters that only affect the English. Why can't we have a vote on whether we want to keep the Scottish as well?

We either need complete seperation or a seperate English assembly as well.

 

[Guest123]

I resent the fact that Scottish and Welsh MPs can vote on matters that only affect the English. Why can't we have a vote on whether we want to keep the Scottish as well?

We either need complete seperation or a seperate English assembly as well.

Most Scots don't agree with the fact that Scottish MP's can still vote on English matters, that's not fair. It was in fact a Scottish MP that raised this point in Westminster a few years back and it became known as the famous "West Lothian" question.

Whatever the outcome of the Scottish Referendum, it is only just that England should have its own parliament to represent the needs of its own people and as the Scots and Welsh both have parliaments where devolved policy cannot be voted on my English politicians. But this is an issue for England to decide on, much as the Scottish Referendum is for Scotland to decide on.

 

[Ray Stafford]

There will be no border controls... an no one will be getting deported.

That's not necessarily for Scotland to decide.

There are two sides to a border, and deportation can work both ways. For example, if Scotland were to join the EU, and the remainder of the UK were to vote to withdraw (not likely, I concede, but by no means as inconceivable as it would have been 5 years ago) then its entirely possible that England/Wales/Ni would want border controls.

I'm not against Scottish independence - I can see strong arguments in favour of both sides. On balance, if I still lived in Scotland, I might very well vote for it.

What annoys me is when either side make ridiculous claims for their point of view, or rubbish the reasonable arguments of their opponents. There are good and substantial arguments on both sides.

Like Mike, I am also narked that the rest of us don't get a vote on whether to allow Scotland to remain in the union.

 

[clarky101]

Lets just remember that she also shut all the mines in KENT apparently the affluent south, shut down GCHQ in Cheltenham as well as the South Wales mines, football she wanted rid of with the puppet moniyhan and Evans the Luton chairman as spokesman....my old man was from easington colliery which she had shut years ago on the same day that she died....Nottingham scabs will probably mound her,,,

 

[Guest123]

Ray, that only highlights the political differences between our 2 countries. The majority of Scots want to remain in the EU whether or not independence happens and if England votes to leave the EU through the planned referendum, then we will be dragged out of it against our will. It's much the same with the Tory/Lib Dem coalition, Scotland didn't vote for it. The majority, i.e the country with the highest population and votes will always have the greater say.

Scottish Independence is about political independence. We will then be equal partners as we can both run our own affairs for the benefit of our own countries.

As to border controls, there are none in the CTA including Isle of Man which is independent and none are ever planned for the future, even with the EU membership question. Full information can be found here.
UK Border Agency | If you are travelling to or from the Republic of Ireland, the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man

 

[Ray Stafford]

The Guardian's poll results in a kinder verdict that I expected. Perhaps I am not in a minority after all.

 

[Guest123]

Again, your poll is by the Guardian which is not widely read up here. I wonder what the results would be for Thatcher in a Scottish only poll! LOL

 

[Ray Stafford]

Again, your poll is by the Guardian which is not widely read up here. I wonder what the results would be for Thatcher in a Scottish only poll! LOL

I don't think they did the poll, I think they commissioned it from ICM.

Bearing in mind the readership profile of the Guardian, I would be gob-smacked if their readership voted 50% for Thatcher=good.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Lets face it thatcher sorted the mess out from the seventies and ruined the 80's bit like a worcester has its good points but also has its bad .What i am surprised at is how many under 35 year olds whom never really lived under thatcher think she was amazing , amazing what a bit of propaganda can do .

 

[WHPES]

I remember the mess we were in during the 70s with fuel shortages, unrest and power cuts.

Like anyone of a similar standing it's not black and white. The country needed modernising or we would have slid further behind the rest of Europe and would have been a lot worse off during the long run. Supposing the situation in the 70s had just manifested on to the present day?

The problem is that we have lost nearly all of our manufacturing base altogether. Low paid volume manufacturing work had it not gone during the 1980s would have died a death anyway due to cheap manufacturing costs of the Far East so it was probably better short and quick than a long agonising slow death. However the high tech stuff also went which should have been pushed like the Germans have done.

Again, coal was becoming a less important fuel source and decline was inevitable whether short and sharp or gradual.

In short, I think that the early Thatcher years were generally for the good of the country, but the later ones were to the detriment.

I agree that the old ways had to change and the unprofitable and weak industries had to go. However the big mistake was that dealing with the aftermath wasn't planned for and there was nothing of substance to take their place which decimated huge areas formerly dependent on heavy industry.

The other thing is that a side effect of the more go-getting attitude of the 1980s ended up with a more selfish and hedonistic culture, which has contributed to the behaviour of the bankers and partly responsible for the banking crisis.

However again it's more complex as we operate in a global market and are entirely at the mercy of global market forces and so must compete on a global level.

 

[Guest123]

But 10 million quid for her funeral?

What happened to the Tory austerity measures?

 

[WHPES]

If Tony Blair died do you think it would be any less?

I'm afraid state funerals are always going to be expensive whoever it is.

 

[Guest123]

I doubt very much if Blair would get a funeral like Thatchers. Harold Wilson and Ted Heath didn't get one.

She should not have been given a 10 million pound state funeral, moreso in hard economic times such as these. 10 million could have helped your ailing national health service or helped cancer research.

 

[zeebeedee]

Maybe her family should foot the bill instead of us!

 

[Guest123]

Maybe her family should foot the bill instead of us!

 

[Gray0689]

Whether you liked bareness thatcher or not she was a mother a grandmother and in my opinion a great British lady
Show some respect as you would like the same respect if it was your mother or grandmother

 

[mutley racers]

Whether you liked bareness thatcher or not she was a mother a grandmother and in my opinion a great British lady
Show some respect as you would like the same respect if it was your mother or grandmother

Agreed!!

 

[Guest123]

My comments are not meant as disrespect to her family. I am angry that her funeral is costing 10 million quid when this government is inflicting so much pain and suffering through their cuts.

I am entitled to my opinion too and in my opinion she was not a great British lady. That accolade I'd gladly give to Her Majesty the Queen who IS a real great British lady, who has hardly put a foot wrong during her reign, and not Thatcher.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, either that or you'd need to shut down every social media site on the internet until her funeral is over.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion

Very true. Courtesy of the Guido Fawkes website.

 

[zeebeedee]

Whether you liked bareness thatcher or not she was a mother a grandmother and in my opinion a great British lady
Show some respect as you would like the same respect if it was your mother or grandmother

My mother didnt cover up the deaths of 96 people and allow the media to tell horrible lies for 26 years. The woman doesnt deserve any respect as far as im concerned

 

[Gray0689]

My comments are not meant as disrespect to her family. I am angry that her funeral is costing 10 million quid when this government is inflicting so much pain and suffering through their cuts.

I am entitled to my opinion too and in my opinion she was not a great British lady. That accolade I'd gladly give to Her Majesty the Queen who IS a real great British lady, who has hardly put a foot wrong during her reign, and not Thatcher.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, either that or you'd need to shut down every social media site on the internet until her funeral is over.

Yes you are mate
at end of the day it's not bareness thatcher who is spending this money on her funeral that is the governments decision not hers or her family's
Some people loved her politics some people hated them hated them and that will always be in politics and you for one Colin are aware of that!

 

[Guest123]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, either that or you'd need to shut down every social media site on the internet until her funeral is over.

 

[Gray0689]

My mother didnt cover up the deaths of 96 people and allow the media to tell horrible lies for 26 years. The woman doesnt deserve any respect as far as im concerned

What are you on about
Come on grow up how did she cover up deaths

 

[Guest123]

Right guys....AS A MATTER OF RESPECT, I'm closing this thread temporarily until after the funeral, despite my own personal views.

The debate can continue afterwards.