Is my apprentice taking drugs?

[Stanios]

Hi everyone, a bit of an unusual post again but really at a loos with this one.
I'm a little paranoid since I've worked for, and with cocaine addicts and saw how the drug direclty impacted the work of the users so please also forgive me if my post stigmatising the drug I am sure it can be taken recreationally without wrecking your life (if anything it will help my thread if you have experience with the drug which I do not).

Moving on to my apprentice who has been with me for a year, he is only 19 and real hard worker (works weekends doing catering when I am off, so 7 days a week some days). Never noticed any signs of drug use at work. However he works ALL THE TIME he is making £300 weekly minimum has no rent to pay no bills he lives with parents yet he is broke. I pay him weekly so it cant be bad management of money its constant expenditure. When I was his age I wouldn't dream of spending 300 quid a month nevermind a week. His only outgoing is car insurance which is around £200 a month I pay petrol. Just yesterday he messaged me asking to be paid 4 days in advance (again i pay him weekly!).

Second worrying sign is while he is keen at work he doesnt take any interest in plumbing outside. The college refused to take him one day a week and handed over whole teaching responsibility to me for the year. When I was apprentice I was all over my boss asking when we can do this visit and this portfolio etc. he hasnt asked once. I actually message assessors myself and do all the chasing etc.

When I talked about drugs with him and told him how coke can Damn up your life he admitted some of his mates used it as well as other drugs but I havn't asked him directly if he did it.

I am looking to buy second van for him to do independent work soon but my suspicions are really discouraging me to risk / invest my money that way. (also his insurance for the van is going to be 4k a year). If you have experience with the drug or working with someone dependent how badly in your experience does it affect work?

Cheers.

 

[Deleted member 32524]

It is an epademic right now. Most would not take smack, but coke... it's ok!!?? Like drink, **** and coffee it can become habitual very, very easily and might not see its an issue before it is too late. Does he always have the sniffles?
Looks drugs are terrible. He may just need a bit of support and I think you sound like you care enough to help. If he is a lost cause on the other hand you may need to cut him loose.

 

[rpm]

Does he go out most nights, if so then my nephew tells me that he can easily spend £60 a night when with his mates in pub and clubs.
It should wear off overnight unless he is taking it every night in which case yeah the sniffing and not being able to keep still for a second are signs.

 

[Millsy 82]

I used to take pretty much anything when I did my apprenticeship. Never affected me I always turned up on time never did anything on a Sunday or work night.

It's pretty easy though to spend £300 in a week if you go out on a friday and end up on the shots.

 

[Welder]

To be honest it sounds like it's time to go and have a coffee with him (so you can see his reaction properly) and talk of both your concerns and aspirations for him.

Personally, I'd say you are concerned at how he's asking for money in advance and ask him straight if he has any money problems. Remember, as others have said, it could be booze, it could be gambling also not just drugs. All are stupid expensive and addictive.

Perhaps you talk about how you see him being a big part of your future business. Him going off and doing his own jobs and perhaps sharing in the profitability of the business if he proves himself. Obvs just some suggestions but offering something, having a reason to want him to succeed is vital IMHO for going forward.

As far as maturity is concerned, todays 19 year olds bear no resemblance to us at 19. For a start we paid towards our keep, so life was not simple, we had to budget and look after what we had to make it last. Today, parents are a bottomless pit of money and we don't realise we are actively destroying our kids with so called kindness.

What I've described above is, I suppose, a bit of a parental role. TBH, if they are doing him any favours then you can only try to engender some responsibility in him. If it works then great and if it doesn't then you have tried and so be it. You sure as hell can't carry him.

Take care and good luck.

 

[Dan]

I'd stay out of his personal life and if you can't invest in him how he is, don't try to change him. That's not what his job is.

It doesn't matter whether he does it or not. The fact is you cant trust him.

300 quid can be spent on 2 nights in a pub and 1 video game.

I can see both side to this. If he's good at his job crack on and get him his van. If he's not going college and he needs to for your business, get rid and find another.

 

[king of pipes]

Its sit down and get it all out in the open time ! Tell him your conserns and see what reaction you get there's a drug epidemic out there and the young generation see no wrong in it , problem is it's illegal and drug driving carries the same penalties as drink driving , your employee will definitely be under the influence during work hours even if he's taken recreational drugs and driving the company van you are risking losing out financially if he's stopped tested and found to have drugs in his system or worse has a accident , I know plenty of people who smoke dope to unwind and chill out others drink 4/5 cans of Stella a night but they seem able to hold a job down I am not saying it right but it's their life at the end of the day . All the best kop

 

[hammers4spanner]

Ive turned up at work in some right states in the past blokes i use to work with use to think it was hilarious .

Always managed to hold my job down tho so guess if it impacts his work or not

 

[rpm]

Workmates in the past always knew what I had been up to the night before based on wether I had a coffee or a can of coke when I arrived in the morning.

 

[Millsy 82]

Workmates in the past always knew what I had been up to the night before based on wether I had a coffee or a can of coke when I arrived in the morning.

Jesus mate most people have a line not a whole can!

Ive turned up at work in some right states in the past blokes i use to work with use to think it was hilarious .

Always managed to hold my job down tho so guess if it impacts his work or not

Yeah me too but most of them since I packed in drugs. I dont think i should of ever drive a Wednesday morning after having about 8-10 pints at darts for about 6 years but never thought about it.

I can remember my first apprentice slept the whole day on a cupboard in a college the monday after global gathering I just covered for him that day. I wasnt complaining as he vowed never to touch speed again so I swapped 2 packs of backie for what he had left and didnt sleep the whole next weekend.

 

[Sharp Point]

I’d be asking, why he hasn’t been sharing.

Flipping yoof of today

 

[Harvest Fields]

Think I’ll leave this one alone

 

[WaterTight]

I am sure it can be taken recreationally without wrecking your life (if anything it will help my thread if you have experience with the drug which I do not)

It can be taken recreationally without wrecking your life but that's a pretty low bar. For many users it will come close. For a majority of users it will come to be viewed as a problem.

It has always left me virtually unable to function the following day (or two, or three) when I've used it and in some ways I'm thankful for this because it's only this enormous physical and emotional cost I suspect that has permitted a slow gradual decline in usage over the years. When you're on it it is absolutely fantastic. So if I felt mostly fine the next day I can easily imagine the habit would have increased

If he is using and is a high functioning user it could well prove disasterous long term. Have a word. Even if just out of human compassion rather than with business in mind. It could go further than you imagine.

 

[oz-plumber]

In this situation, I would call his parents - without him knowing - and have a chat with them.
They might shed some light on the situation or help resolve the problem.

From what you say he doesn't sound like a bad kid. He may have lost some direction and needs some guidance.

I would also get him back into college and inform him that if he get kicked out again, he will be let go.

 

[SimonG]

Sit down and talk about your plans going forward. Then ask him why he's struggling with the college side and money management.
I think that's as far as you can go.
Shame if he's a grafter but it will be your name if things go pear shaped.

 

[Millsy 82]

In this situation, I would call his parents - without him knowing - and have a chat with them.
They might shed some light on the situation or help resolve the problem.

From what you say he doesn't sound like a bad kid. He may have lost some direction and needs some guidance.

I would also get him back into college and inform him that if he get kicked out again, he will be let go.

If it were me I would tell you to duck off out of my or my sons personal life as it is nothing to do with you.

I dont know why but all of a sudden employing someones means you own them and can tell them what they can and cant do outside of work as it's simply their business not yours what they do.

If it is impacting on work then you can say something but otherwise butt out.

 

[Welder]

If it were me I would tell you to duck off out of my or my sons personal life as it is nothing to do with you.

I dont know why but all of a sudden employing someones means you own them and can tell them what they can and cant do outside of work as it's simply their business not yours what they do.

If it is impacting on work then you can say something but otherwise butt out.

I understand your point of view completely, but in this instance I must disagree somewhat.

Fact is, they way people behave (in and out of work) does impact the reputation of employers - through association. Much as blame should not be laid at the foot of employers it increasingly is - and none of us can afford that these days.

This is why I proffered the opinion & advice I did early in the thread. If i enquired sensitively and was told to 'duck off' then they'd be down within 2 mins and lives severly messed up all round.

 

[Millsy 82]

I understand your point of view completely, but in this instance I must disagree somewhat.

Fact is, they way people behave (in and out of work) does impact the reputation of employers - through association. Much as blame should not be laid at the foot of employers it increasingly is - and none of us can afford that these days.

This is why I proffered the opinion & advice I did early in the thread. If i enquired sensitively and was told to 'duck off' then they'd be down within 2 mins and lives severly messed up all round.

Having a friendly chat is different to going behind someones back and going to the parents. It's like being at school. If people are not man enough to ask the person 1 to 1 then they should not be employing people.

If you have a problem with me you say it to me not my parents type thing.

 

[Sharp Point]

Then again, he may not be using coke.... just has nightly meets with ladies of the night for swift hand shuffle
And £300 isn’t a lot these days. He could be whacking £30 a week on topping up his phone, fuel in car, beers, cigs, clothes, what about lodge money. He may of had a loan to buy his car/ bike/ tv/ games console.

You may just be jumping the gun

 

[Lou]

When I was working with homeless people for the council we were told whatever we did outside of work including posting on social media was a reflection of the employer and we could be disciplined.

 

[king of pipes]

Stanios just talk to the boy theres always two sides to a story dont jump to conclusions if in the worst case scenario he is on something, or has some other problem then offer him help, if this get thrown back in your face then you seriously need to think of his future with you , explain that as your employee everytime he goes out to carry out work he is representing you and the company image and needs to present himself in a clean tidy professional manner, the college side of things would worry me he needs to knuckle down attend college gain, the highest grades possible complete his NVQS and portfolios he cannot progress in his career till the training is completed. Kop

 

[oz-plumber]

If it were me I would tell you to duck off out of my or my sons personal life as it is nothing to do with you.

I dont know why but all of a sudden employing someones means you own them and can tell them what they can and cant do outside of work as it's simply their business not yours what they do.

If it is impacting on work then you can say something but otherwise butt out.

The point is - it is impacting his work.
He was kicked out of College also.

Reason enough in my book.

 

[Aire]

Haven't read all the replies but my personal take on this is to stay out his personal business. Spending £300 A weekend is nothing these days, when I was his age I could easily blow £80 a night and that was 13 years ago. Before you ask I've never taken a drug in my life. If he wants to be paid early thats up to you whether you do it or not, but if you do it frequently he'll expect it and know he doesnt need to be carful with his money.
However if he's coming to work drugged up then that's a different story and I'm sure you are within your legal rights to request a drug test if you suspect something, but you have to warn him about it first. It probably won't do much for him trusting you though. As for his attitude towards plumbing outside of work and at college, I thinks that's how alot of youngsters are now, they leave work at work and don't think about it when they get home and some just generally dislike college and don't want to do all the paperwork and studying that goes with it.
In general though, if your happy with him and he works well, invest in him. If your not happy with him or have concerns (about work, not personal life) then sit down with him and bring it up and ask for an honest response from him.

 

[Millsy 82]

The point is - it is impacting his work.
He was kick out of College also.

Reason enough in my book.

Where does it say he was kicked out of college just they refused to take him on 1 day a week. Maybe they dont do that I had 1 apprentice his was 2.5 days college 2.5 days work. Both my boss and me said it's stupid as he didnt have any transport so he lost half a day. Once in his second year he didnt bother going the half day and worked it instead and the college were ok with that.

But nowhere does it say he was kicked out because of drugs.

Stanios even said no evidence of drug use at work and he is a really hard worker. Maybe he is just like I was and hated college but enjoyed working.

 

[Deleted member 96286]

Might not be drugs, it could be gambling debt or he may have taken out a loan that he's struggling to pay back.
Gambling is a drug and ruins lives. I think you need to sit the lad down and talk calmly but firmly with him, without sounding like you're trying to interrogate him.
At the end of the day, you have a business to run and you have bills to pay too. A slip up from this lad could ruin your reputation. He's a very lucky lad to have someone like you taking him on and caring about his well being too.

 

[Stanios]

Cheers for the wisdom, many wiser than me in these matters evidently! I've probed about his nights out they are eventful, suppose being out of touch hadn't realised such money can be spent on alcohol. Il tread carefully and probably just lease a van and keep a very close eye on things.

We are in it for long term I hope with that view I should not reprimand him even if there is evidence he is using socially as he would probably use and not tell me again I rather know and maybe be helpfull when and if it gets out of hand? Though I hate the thought of business paying into some scummy drugdealer's pocket (can't they just legalise the stuff or something)

 

[rpm]

Don`t lease on the van, maybe a cheaper van & magnetic signs to start then progress, that way you aren`t tied to a contract.

Like your attitude to the lad BTW. Good luck.

 

[Aire]

can't they just legalise the stuff or something

Might have to, if the retirement age is raised to 75 as planned, many many pensioners will need the stuff to get through the day

 

[rpm]

(Can't they just legalise the stuff or something)

Wish they would, fed up driving my Ford whilst my man drives a Merc!

 

[Deleted member 32524]

They shoud legalise the lot. Revenue could be spent on useful social projects, like houses, schools, hospitals and the likes. Drug dealers in my scheme are making a fortune and the police seem to do nothing about it. They own 60k motors, holidays, caravans.....One boy I know from growing up is estimated to make about 4k a week from weed!!

 

[Harvest Fields]

Are we still on about this???

 

[firemant]

I employed a woman in our shop. She was in her 40's and a single mum. She started to date some guy. One morning her nose was bleeding. My wife sorted her out and said that was weird. She replied that she had started to try Coke. My wife asked why, and she said her BF was into it and she thought she would try it.

She had to go. She had our shop keys and babysat for our nippers, and we were not waiting for any serious fallout.

 

[oz-plumber]

One way to find out without intruding on his privacy..

Keep employing him for the interim and see if things start disappearing.
Like money from you van / wallet, items that you have that can be sold easily.
Customers might call you to ask if saw something that they now find missing. Like a wallet or purse!!!

Most addicts ( not saying your apprentice is and addict ) are fine when they can maintain their habit financially, it's when they can't maintain their habit financially they become a problem.

 

[Millsy 82]

One way to find out without intruding on his privacy..

Keep employing him for the interim and see if things start disappearing.
Like money from you van / wallet, items that you have that can be sold easily.
Customers might call you to ask if saw something that they now find missing. Like a wallet or purse!!!

Most addicts ( not saying your apprentice is and addict ) are fine when they can maintain their habit financially, it's when they can't maintain their habit financially they become a problem.

Or just see if they fall down the toilet trainspotting style.

Come on not every body is a stereo type. Do you walk round upside down with a cork hat and saying strewth whilst swigging your fosters.

I started smoking weed when I was 16 between the age of 17 and 21 I probably took enough pills to kill off the kangaroo population chuck in a bit of speed over that time, always turned down smack as didnt look my kind of thing and couldn't afford coke back then. I cut down most drugs at age 21 apart from weed because my son was born and still did the occasional pill and then the odd bit of coke as we were starting to get that a bit cheaper.

A large amount of my friends still use drugs recreationally and out of everybody I used to hang around with back then 2 became heroin addicts over the space of 2 years and I know of 1 coke addict. Out of those 3 they all still worked to fund their habit and never stole a penny to fund their habit.

I know of 2 people that got sent to prison and blamed having to steal on being an addict but they were thieving scrotes before and after they were addicts.

The rest of my friends just use drugs and have fun they dont steal, they dont fight, dont hang around in gangs dont carry knives. They just work hard and have fun.

Now let's talk about alcohol I can walk down my local high street and get abused by the local p**s heads, over the last 4 years I have buried 5 members of our family 3 of which was solely down to alcohol abuse. Go out on a friday/ Saturday night and the streets are filled with people throwing up, fighting and passed out. And I know of loads ofpeople that alcohol has ruined their lives.

But alcohol is legal so its fine

 

[MOSSEP]

I agree with Millsy, all sorts of folk take 'drugs' everyday - alcohol, nicotine, pain killers, caffeine and cannot function without them. As soon as they are confronted with a 'drug' that is not legal but some definition drawn up by a government, they can get very pious about it.

Most people do it for fun and have no issue at all, unless its really affecting someones work then I'd not worry about it.