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Discuss Will there be any RHI next year? in the Renewable Energy area at

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  1. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

    DECC proposing to cut solar feed-in tariff rates by 87%

    [DLMURL=""]DECC proposing to cut solar feed-in tariff rates by 87% | Solar Power Portal[/DLMURL]

    With this level of cut for the FiT, I'm not holding my breath for any ongoing allocation, beyond the current budget commitment to March 2016 for the RHI either..

    They've closed the Green Deal Finance Company, closing FiT, can't push the costs on to the energy companies due to them blaming the gov't for green 'tax levies'; will be difficult to see how they can justify support for the RHI with those policies..
    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 1, 2017
  2. Ermintrude

    Ermintrude Plumber GSR

    Hello lawsuits
  3. missplumb

    missplumb Plumber

    Being optimistic , maybe by cutting the fits for solar and wind, it might be leaving the door open for CHP seeing as there has been such a slow, if noticeable, take up of this technology. It could slip through the governments net and become the next big thing commercially. I was talking to a guy I worked with years ago who is now the renewables coordinator for the local authority and he reckons the next big thing is commercial gshp feeding a district heating system. Not sure about that like!!!!!!
  4. lame plumber

    lame plumber Guest

    only my thoughts but if something isnt viable without government subsidies, it isnt viable anyhow and isnt worth installing. Couldnt go on forever thank god its coming to an end.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Ray Stafford

    Ray Stafford Guest

    Amen to that.
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  6. SimonG

    SimonG Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Lot of people paid a lot of money for training and accreditation to jump on the rhi bandwagon, now left with the brown end of the stick.
  7. Nostrum

    Nostrum Plumber GSR

    There was never any guarantee of it continuing beyond 2016 and I'm sceptical that it will remain in its current form.

    Both FiT and RHI are designed to kick start the market and help to enable it to work on its own by increasing demand and reducing costs.

    For P.V, this has been completed with amazing success with prices now about 60-70% lower than they were in 2011. In the big scheme of things though, it's not really tackling the bigger issue of decarbonisation of the existing service.

    Amber Rudd from DECC made it very clear that this was the long term objective and that the subsidies were not there to provide long term investment of any sort.

    As for the RHI, this does play more of a part in decarbonisation and as heating makes up a greater portion of carbon emissions pie than electricity production, could be more use.

    It's also still to early to see what impact it is having as uptake has been relatively slow, and biomass was over paid which led to a bit of an imbalance in what technology was deployed in the early stages.

    I can see a carbon tax relief type system taking the place of them all, maybe council tax based although I can't see the councils taking further cuts as it stands.

    Speaking to some of the heat pump manufacturers/distributors, some are suggesting the removal of RHI may open up the market a bit and help see a greater uptake, I would say that could be a recipe for disaster unless MCS or similar remained to help ensure good practice. Most heating installers really don't have a clue when it comes to heat pump design.
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2015
  8. lame plumber

    lame plumber Guest

    if you dont have to jump through hoops in order to put something in, it then becomes worthwhile to train how to install a heat pump and do it right, bit like doing your gas tickets, then the one man bands can compete successfully against the bigger firms and it all works ok.
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  9. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

    I would hope that the existing hoops are actually no more than you need to be gassafe.

    The training isn't expensive, the documentation / process audit ensures good practice, and the design and planning work done is what should be done by any good heating engineer anyway.

    One man bands are already successfully competing / installing products in this sector. In practice though the extent of the work means that it's usually one man plus a mate as a minimum.

    Our work is all done to best practice and therefore, if the hoops really are greater than gassafe, then I can only assume that in the gas environment a large number of installations (although safe) are poorly designed or installed, simply due to the (and using the word correctly here) the ignorance of those doing the installations.

    With the future objective of reducing energy demands and CO2 emissions on new building, and effectively in about 4 years not allowing gas heating to be installed, I would see a significant number of gassafe engineers adding monobloc heatpumps to their portfolio of qualifications. - Get those qualifications now and you'll be one step ahead of the curve. - NONE of this change is dependent upon the existence or not of the RHI.
  10. lame plumber

    lame plumber Guest

    the audit processes just seemed to me like another load of government red tape that isnt required and an expense to do. Having trained and gained city and guilds exams, nvqs, gas safe qualifications etc etc, its just another meal ticket for auditors etc. Like all things there are good and bad installers, having seen some green installs using woodchips I can safely say two of them are the worst installations I have come across in my 10 years in the trade. Undersized rads hanging off the walls supplied with plastic pipework curling all over the place and best of all, the filling loop was hidden behind the cylinder in the boiler house, woth the pressure gauge hidden behind the boiler. Not an easy one to top up!! So all the things the schemes were supposed to prevent continue to happen as per normal, yet the owners go all their subsidies etc being as the installer seemed to self certify the install.

    Funny thing is, the house concerned keeps popping up on tv ads for and internet house sales company, you may have seen it, the little mill cottage by the sea all white and pretty. You wouldnt want to buy it however as it floods regularly, water main keeps leaking and the heating system is a right mess.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2015
  11. Nostrum

    Nostrum Plumber GSR

    As Worcester says, much of it is relative to the heating industry as a whole. There is a significant lack of knowledge in the gas installation sector, which seems to be the epicentre of the heating industry due to our extensive gas network.

    I'm a time served gas engineer and had it not have been my interest in the emerging technology I wouldn't have learnt much more than I left college with, in regards to heating design and basic hydraulic principles.

    Unfortunately, no 4-5 day BPEC course can provide enough technical training to be able to take it all onboard, although they will highlight how much many don't already know, despite what they originally thought. For me, that was enough for me to continue learning off my own back.

    Most can't be bothered to put the time and effort in to the accreditation process, yet complain that they can't have a bit at the cherry. Rather, they expect to turn up with a bundle of tube, tools and a heat pump and slap it in.

    We're a small business, I do all the calculations, paperwork, installations and certification myself. Yes, it's hard work, but it's not impossible.

    MCS actually provide a lot of very useful documentation to fall back on.

    But it's all fine by me, less competition.

    40kw combi in a 3 bed semi anyone?
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015
  12. lame plumber

    lame plumber Guest

    see where you are coming from mate, but the mcs accreditation scheme was just a total paperwork exercise, didnt really have much to do with installation procedures from what I looked at.
  13. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

    There are all sorts of political developments going on behind the scenes.

    One of which is the future of MCS, with no FiT for Solar, and no Domestic RHI, one has to question what is the point of MCS (There is an extensive thread going on the electricians forum about this.)

    In essence the government are massively concerned that not enough people are properly qualified or certified to install renewables - primarily they see air source heat pumps as the favoured replacement for gas boilers, and cite the disasters before the implementation of the MCS scheme, undersized heat pumps, undersized emitters, poor installation, poor end user education, resulting in HIGHER energy bills than before..

    Massive structural changes are going on behind the scenes at MCS and within DECC at the moment... I give you this information now, so that no-one later complains about not having a piece of the action... The current agenda is that renewable technologies will only be able to be signed off for building regs by MCS certifed companies. So, do the training and get yourselves up to speed now, come on in, the water's . tepid :) and don't complain later.
  14. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

    Here's the official stats:
    Installed systems that qualify for RHI, legacy systems were installed since 2009, and before April 2014

    ... ASHP Biomass GSHP Solar Thermal
    ...TOTAL: 17204 10028 5594 6909
    .....Legacy: 13392 3715 4857 5420
    Since Introduction of RHI:..3812 6313 737 1489

    Interesting discussion with Vaillant the other day, they claim to supply 1 in 3 of new gas boilers installed in the UK. They are developing a training program for gas installers to upskill
  15. Ray Stafford

    Ray Stafford Guest

    Unfortunately this is not the case. I have looked at QMS from BS5750 through the ISO9000 family over 20+ years. I have seen QMS systems in business, sport and the 3rd sector, and in my experience they most certainly DO NOT ensure good practice. AT BEST they can be useful tools, and at worst they can be box ticking exercises.

    Best practice is ensured by embedding excellence in the culture of the organisation, not in the back of a filing cabinet.
    • Like Like x 1
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