Whats your hourly rate? and how busy are you workwise?

[theanalyst]

ok chaps. I know this gets asked a fair bit (how busy are you) but I would like to see an up to date set of statistics.!

I was thinking of the following info? I have put mine in to hopefully start the ball rolling

sole trader or company : sole trader

hourly rate: £38 (mainly for gas work, reduced to £200 day rate + materials if working for a builder on regular work)

Region: south yorkshire

Business Busyness! factor: 4/10 (eg, Im struggling to keep regular work going. Things are sporadic and a job comes in just as I'm getting concerned..)

Hope other people join into this. If you dont want to put your hourly rate (for some reason,..) then dont!


Anyone got any hot tips on getting work in? I nearly signed up to mybuilder and the other similar one until I read a lot of people saying it was a total con!!

Thanks

ps/ Im doing a big leaflet drop the week after next if its empty of work as it it presently
Not using yellow pages as Ive heard of too many say its a waste of money.

Word of mouth is all I use currently. Unfortunately there's not enough mouths and not enough words it seems!!.
My work is good quality and I do get a lot of recommendations, its just nobody seems to be spending round here!?!

 

[Cumbria Handyma]

Drop your hourly rate and advertise. Better to have a regular £20 an hour coming in instead of £38 an hour sporadically.

 

[theanalyst]

Drop your hourly rate and advertise. Better to have a regular £20 an hour coming in instead of £38 an hour sporadically.

yeah, unfortunately as a proper business 20£ an hour is not worth going to a job for! van insurance, liability insurance , massive fuel cost, van maintenance cost, tool purchases and on job wear and tear.

does anyone else have any input? I'm not dropping my rates they are cheap anyway( no callout charge) . there seems to be so many people at this game now, many of them being useless as well!!

 

[petercj]

Hourly rates don't mean a lot in my experience, people who quote a low hourly rate just take longer, i.e. they add on extra time to make up for the low hourly rate.

If you are aiming to get work from the public, I think it's better to quote an all-in price for a particular job.

Such as WB boiler supplied and fitted (changed) from £1250. Or a 3 piece bathroom suite fitted (labour only) for £175. Set price for a shower, etc.

Members of the public want to know where they stand.

Get a website with price examples on - put your website address in all adverts so that you can keep adverts short - use set prices such as WB from £1250 to attract attention.

When you fit a boiler with a long warranty, e.g. WB 5/7 year, offer the 6th/8th service free providing you get all the other servicing work.

Provide a folder with your name and number on the front to hold the commissioning information. Use texts to remind people of forthcoming service dates. Put a sticker with your name and number (tel & email) on the boiler - as Vaillant have started doing by sending out stickers to all Vaillant owners known to them.

And a top tip - get a pair of work shoes with smooth soles that will wipe clean, not a pair of boots with tread like tractor tyres that ensures that crap is walked all over people's carpets!

Plus, always keep in mind that your career ultimately depends on your reputation - even now, there are tradesmen with first class reputations who are booked up for weeks ahead.

 

[Phil]

Also when quoting for work don't use the F word too many times, I was chatting to a guy the other day and he had someone come and quote for a new kitchen and nearly every word out of his mouth was the F word!

As you can expect he was never given the job, he even swore in front of this guy's grandkids.

 

[petercj]

Also when quoting for work don't use the F word too many times, I was chatting to a guy the other day and he had someone come and quote for a new kitchen and nearly every word out of his mouth was the F word!

As you can expect he was never given the job, he even swore in front of this guy's grandkids.

Probably sees himself as the Gordon Ramsay of kitchen fitting!

Did he have "Hell's Kitchens" on the side of the van?

 

[dontknowitall]

Pricing makes little difference to the amount of work you receive.

For the last two days I've not had a single customer. On Monday I was charging £1,000 per hour and yesterday (thinking I might be a tad expensive) I was charging at an astonishingly amazing price of one pence per hour.

Result? No customers for either day.

Tomorrow I've two jobs neither customer has asked me how much I will be charging and will just pay the bill when I'm finished. I don't even know myself how much I'll be charging until I've nearly finished each job.

All I know is I want to do a good job for both of them, give them value for money and ask for enough to make myself a profit and feel it was worth turning up in the first place.

 

[GQuigley67]

£20 an hour IMHO is too cheap for any business, i can earn double that as a subby so if your charging your customers this then you are crazy

 

[petercj]

On the issue of dropping hourly rates - if people don't know of your work, dropping h.r. can give the impression you're not very good at what you do, and that you're a tad desperate for work.

If you can do a convincing "sell" on your services/ product, and then offer a discount off your usual charge, you won't come over as cheap and desperate.

Comparative marketing is the way to go - easy to understand, as you are surrounded by it all the time.

Basically, you spell out in detail what you offer for your charges, and give examples of how what you do, and what you charge, compares with other companies.

As an example: BG charge £2800 for a WB boiler with a 2 yr warranty - You charge £1500, with £250 off on special offer during July and August, and your boilers come with a 5/7 year warranty.

Spell out what you include in your Servicing, e.g. flue gas check; dismantle, clean, and check boiler parts as per manufacturer's servicing schedule; check condense pipe, etc; TRVs; radiator efficiency - for cold spots etc, and make a comparison with BG service, which is little more than a flue gas check.

Include on the leaflet a guesstimate of what an inefficient boiler/ system could be costing the owner per year.

If the rads are blocked up, offer a power flush for £250 with £25 off during July and August, being less than half the £599 charged by BG.

Also mention how a magnetic filter fitted on the system (Magna Booster, etc) would help to protect their boiler, and their wallet, from unnecessary repair costs.

BG charge £300 to supply and fit Magna Booster - You charge £200 with £20 off during July and August.

Get the idea?

Supermarkets get people to spend money by telling them how much they can save by spending their hard earned cash in their store, and not in their competitors store down the road where the items will cost more.

By spelling out in detail what you provide, you sell the fact that you are diligent and exceptionally good value for money, rather than communicating the idea that you are cheap because you are desperate.

Your marketing is focused on the money you can save people, and not just on what your services cost.

Providing you do a good job and deliver what you promise, they will pass on the word, and come back to you when the need arises.

The trouble with a lot of one-man bands is that they don't think about marketing until the work dries up, i.e. tradesmen do what they do best, which is fix things: head down, focus on the job in hand, and not bothering with where the next six months work is coming from. Most of the one-man-bands I know rely on the misses for admin, etc. Nowadays, you need a bit more than that.

 

[Chrissy1966]

It's really tough down here in Dorset. Too many plumbers chasing too little work, I get the impression that a lot of people are spending redundancy money and bank loans on two week plumbing courses and vw transporters. Hope it settles down soon.

 

[armyash]

Top quality post petercj. I went on a self employment workshop a couple of weeks ago and that was the sort of advice we were given. Marketing will be an ongoing thing for me when I finally go it alone. I have so much info and ideas that during the first 6 months marketing/advertising etc will be playing a huge part of my working life then it will be a matter of adding to it and improving it as I go. The guy who ran the workshop said constantly reminding your customers you are there is priceless, always put yourself out there and get your name out. Just look at TV ads we are constantly bombarded with special offers, new products, a better service etc. It might annoy us but they keep on advertising. Why? because it works.

I don't expect to be getting much work to begin with obviously, but by time I have advertised and set myself up to go I'll have made a lot of people aware I am there.

 

[petercj]

Thanks armyash

The one-man-bands don't have the millions to spend on advertising like the big companies do, but they can use the advertising of the large corporates to their advantage.

The current WB TV adverts being a classic. Let the big companies sell the product, and then undercut, undercut, undercut. But not just on the basis of being cheaper, concentrate on what will be saved by using yours truly, and stress any added value.

One-man-bands should also think about co-operation rather than competition with like for like, i.e. say six OMBs getting together to buy boilers in bulk, share advertising and marketing costs, and share the work when it comes in.

Set up a website and a free-phone call number, and either get the the wives to man the phone, or employ someone on a pt basis.

Being able to provide finance through a third party on the larger jobs would give a huge advantage.

The skills shortage in plumbing and gas fitting is over, there is now a surplus of labour chasing a dwindling amount of work.

It will be survival of the fittest.

 

[SimonG]

Not the place for talking pounds and pence, should be in the arms.

 

[AWheating]

i base my hourly rate on how much i hate the customer

 

[petercj]

Good example here of selling the deal on what is saved, and not the actual cost of the deal:-

Worcester Bosch Boilers – Buy and Compare Worcester Bosch Boilers Online | Boilers Sale

 

[petercj]

i base my hourly rate on how much i hate the customer

BG must really hate their customers!

 

[hammers4spanner]

what are you lot on about !!!!
I love plumbing so much i do it for nothing !!

 

[AWheating]

what are you lot on about !!!!
I love plumbing so much i do it for nothing !!

cool, please can you come and do my bathroom?? i would but i dont like the customer so would charge to much lol.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Liveing in West Country we have to do it for nothing, sometimes may even get 1/2 doz eggs & bag of carrots, got to keep prices down so i can undercut Hammers !! :waving:

 

[Cumbria Handyma]

yeah, unfortunately as a proper business 20£ an hour is not worth going to a job for! van insurance, liability insurance , massive fuel cost, van maintenance cost, tool purchases and on job wear and tear.

does anyone else have any input? I'm not dropping my rates they are cheap anyway( no callout charge) . there seems to be so many people at this game now, many of them being useless as well!!

As your work income is so sparodic, why not up your price and get less work. :sleeping:

 

[Avatar]

i base my hourly rate on how much i hate the customer

Lol! - I know what you mean . . . .

I base my quotes for big jobs as well - I call it the 'arsehole' factor!

Ie the more of a git you are, the more it costs accordingly . . . . .

 

[Avatar]

I think there is a major prob with dropping prices - been there, done it and it does not really work . . .

I found myself competing with 4 guys, some of which were quoting £200 for a complete bathroom install - I cannot do it anymore!

My business is based on - if you want the job done properly, you pay properly to do so. If you want cheap work done badly, go elsewhere . . . .

in todays bodge job society this goes down quite well!

still isnt stopping me from going out of business however . . ..

I didn't get into plumbing to earn £13 or £20 per hour, otherwise I may as well go and get a job at Asda!

 

[GQuigley67]

£200 for a bathroom bloody hell whats the point

 

[Ivor Bates]

My hourly rate is £70 plus vat, with the only exception being unblocking toilets I have decided to price myself out of this market with a starting price of £1000 per hour plus vat and it doubles at the weekends and evenings. I work and only target Central London, this is a completely different market than the rest of the UK, although you may think people in Central London are all rolling around in cash, most of them just have larger debts than the rest of the UK so it is very competitive, there are also a lot of 'handyman squads' with the AA being one of them, these tend to be cheaper than plumbing companies but offer very limited services and skills. Most of my clients are Arabs, embassy staff and bankers and just a dripping tap will give anyone of these groups a nervous breakdown and the Arabs want their heating on full blast 24hrs a day even if the outside temp is 80 degrees. So your at their beck and call 24hrs a day seven days a week, it sounds great, but it does get to you eventually as for the social life there isn't one. The problem as I see it with other parts of the UK is, is that the demand for plumbers will never exceed enough for the amount of plumbers available. Dorset for example will never need or have a demand for say 500 self employed plumbers in any given day or at least I cannot imagine it to, so I don't know why instead of plumbers trying to go it alone they don't join forces and share the work and become partnerships rather than trying to go it alone, when you read a lot of plumbers websites there is a lot of 'us' 'ours' and 'we' written when in reality it's just 'little ole me' on my jack todd trying to scratch a living together.....
If you Google UK classifides there are heaps of websites where you can advertise for free and if you word your advertising correctly without being spammy you will end up in the search engines just as high as the best of the websites.

 

[E4gas]

Don't do hour rate , charge per job ,, very busy ,,

 

[theanalyst]

Not the place for talking pounds and pence, should be in the arms.

Sorry mate. Thought this was the right place.



petercj

Some very wise advice there and some food for thought. Im currently having a decent website built but this will take a good few months until I get search engine traffic though it will look good for people to be able to go online and see my work before calling.
I know that I always look at a companies website before getting quotes for work in...!

There's a senior position in business development that has opened up in my outfit, if you want it its yours however I can only pay minimum wage until it takes off ..>!!!

 

[theanalyst]

ps/ How do we find this 'plumbers arms'?? or is it an invite only subforum?

 

[ecowarm]

ps/ How do we find this 'plumbers arms'?? or is it an invite only subforum?

Pm Dave or Dan with your details including home number and you will be in, will have to get the round in though

 

[tamz]

yeah, unfortunately as a proper business 20£ an hour is not worth going to a job for! van insurance, liability insurance , massive fuel cost, van maintenance cost, tool purchases and on job wear and tear.

Aint that the truth.

This week so far excluding materials or any other running costs
Cordless drill £190
Van repairs and mot £583
road tax £215
Magnaclean powerflush filter thingy £340
5" core bit £97
Diesel £174

Total £1502

An hourly rate of £62.58 just to cover that lot for the 3 days! but by the end of the week when it is totalled up, it will be over 2 grand This may seem a lot but it is an ongoing thing. Next week it will be some other expense.
I don't charge an hourly rate. Everything is priced.

Or a 3 piece bathroom suite fitted (labour only) for £175. Set price for a shower, etc.

£175 for a bathroom swap? That is late 1980's prices. Even if you can kick it in in 3 hrs that is too cheap. If the boy was doing a homer i would tell him to take more than that.
You shouldn't just work to live. You need to look to the future when you may not be able to work.
Life and time passes quicker than you think.

 

[WaterTight]

My hourly rate never has much to do with how busy I am. The customers who want me would still want me if I knocked £10 off an hour or added £10 on an hour. The customers who think my prices are too expensive would probably still think so if I was charging £10 an hour. I had a woman earlier today who mis-heard me when I said "You're looking at about £80, £90 all in." She looked satisfied with the price, nodded and repeated, "£8 or £9." She was much less happy when I corrected her. This was to supply and fit a decent pair of basin taps and re-pipe leaking connections incidentally.

I do fixed prices 75% of the time and a small price range 25% of the time. You can't give a fixed price for searching for a leak for instance.

As for how busy, scratching round for the past month and all of a sudden I'm very busy. Long may it last.

 

[petercj]

£175 for a bathroom suite was just an example of using set prices, which will always need to be qualified with: *from* and : *subject to survey*.

Might be 1980's prices for you, but the competitive price-point in our evening papers for fitting a 3 piece bathroom sweet is £200.

So if price is to be the selling point in such adverts, and you want to get the opportunity of giving a quote, then I doubt the phone will get very busy if advertising from: "£400".

Need also to bear in mind that the OP of this thread was talking about cutting prices to the bone in order to get some work in.

Thinking about it a bit more, I would say an all-in price for a white budget suite with contract taps inclusive of labour would be a better bet. Once over the customer's threshold, quotes could be given for upgrading the suite or the accessories. If times are tight, then maybe take on the tiling work, or take a commission from another tradesman. Same could apply to flooring, and decorating.

You mention overheads, but then there are fixed and variable costs attached to running a business.

If you stay home tomorrow, then you won't need to start up the van, and so you won't incur any fuel costs. But the road tax on the van, the van insurance, public indemnity insurance, any personal pension cover, the cost of assembling your tools and equipment and the maintenance of them, all carry on ticking away as a fixed overhead while you're watching daytime TV.

If you are well established and have the financial resources to say: "sod it, I won't work for less than x pounds per hour", then good for you, but a lot of people out there are not so lucky.

I have every sympathy with anyone who says: "I'm good at what I do ... I always do a good job ... and I'm worth what I charge!"

But if you don't convince new prospective customers of those facts, and you need to work, then unfortunately, there's a very good chance that you will slip proudly and gracefully beneath the waves like the Titanic.

What could be a sadder sight than a plumber or a gas fitter sat at home with no customers to hate? ;-)

 

[theanalyst]

Aint that the truth.

This week so far excluding materials or any other running costs
Cordless drill £190
Van repairs and mot £583
road tax £215
Magnaclean powerflush filter thingy £340
5" core bit £97
Diesel £174

Total £1502

An hourly rate of £62.58 just to cover that lot for the 3 days! but by the end of the week when it is totalled up, it will be over 2 grand This may seem a lot but it is an ongoing thing. Next week it will be some other expense.
I don't charge an hourly rate. Everything is priced.



£175 for a bathroom swap? That is late 1980's prices. Even if you can kick it in in 3 hrs that is too cheap. If the boy was doing a homer i would tell him to take more than that.
You shouldn't just work to live. You need to look to the future when you may not be able to work.
Life and time passes quicker than you think.

and I thought I was having a bad week!!!!

I should have put more clearly about how I price my jobs. I always give a job price to people, most folks demand and expect to know how much it will cost before you start.
If it genuinely cannot be estimated then I give them a ballpark with a built in safety margin for me..

I use the hourly rate as a basis for cost estimate but then factor in the other aspects like
-do i want this job? (if its crawling around soil pipes I add more)
- is it heavy work (lots of lifting) if so a big ££ addon
- does it require a repeat visit to complete? (eg 1st,2nd fix bathroom), addon ££
- Do I have to buy special tools to complete it? (eg a massive sds bit for example), ok well it goes on the cost..etc

I think Im going to start offering cheaper boilers as an option (Im a vaillant authorised installer so do mainly vaillant) to be even more competitive , people just seem to be so tight!! maybe Im just having a bad month...



and £175 for a bathroom swap is ridiculous.
I wont charge any less than £600 even if its a straight swap because there's always a pita somewhere waiting to ruin your day. Plus cost of flexi's, bathframe wood if needed,and then lugging all the bits about which for me is the most annoying part of the job!

 

[petercj]

Sorry mate. Thought this was the right place.



petercj

Some very wise advice there and some food for thought. Im currently having a decent website built but this will take a good few months until I get search engine traffic though it will look good for people to be able to go online and see my work before calling.
I know that I always look at a companies website before getting quotes for work in...!

There's a senior position in business development that has opened up in my outfit, if you want it its yours however I can only pay minimum wage until it takes off ..>!!!

Hey, thanks for the offer!

The job title does sound very tempting, but I'm afraid the salary just doesn't cut it.

Just as a matter of interest, does the term "senior" apply to the position in the company, or the age of the employee?

Also, does "transport provided" mean that the job comes with a bus pass?

;-)

 

[Foodface]

You have to have an idea of how much on average you need to be charging per hour for your services, your hourly rate should be determined by your overheads. People who do not have a grasp of this go out of business because they are too cheap and thus do not cover their costs, like wise if you are too expensive then you go out of business cos no one can afford your prices.

Likewise I've gone for jobs and been nicked at the post because my overheads are more than the cowboy who doesn't have appropriate insurance or accreditation, but thats the nature of the game we're in. See what your competitors are doing, if you are higher in cost then cut down on overheads and your hourly price. If not stick to your guns.

It sounds like you are on the right path as it is to be honest though.

 

[PatchettPlumbing]

Having just gone into this field, I have done well to get on with 2 local estate agents to manage any property that they currently let.

I have devised my price list based on job prices, so X amount for a boiler swap, central heating fitting etc etc. I will only use hourly rate for leak finding or maybe issues finding problems.