Valiant 837..... my gas metre is racing

[Foxyuk]

hi guys i got a valiant 837 fitted last week all new pipework and radiators , At the moment the house has no carpets etc and i have it on in the morning ang night for an hour via a siemens wiresless remote.

i went in tonight and turned it on for 5 mins and watched the metre (last 3 digits) spin like a sprinter..... it actualy went up 1/2 a unit with that time

i have the new type metre and its dated 2009.... the house temperature was 12.5 and i turned it to 17.5 its a metric unit 1 metric unit is 11.05 kwh so in 5 mins used about 6kwh


where do i start because somethings not right????

can it be a fauly gas meter?
faulty boiler?

At present im staying at relations until the house is refurbed and my relations use 2 units a day gas and house is roasting ........

help!!!

 

[CES]

Foxy, Do an accurate recording of readings using a stopwatch and 2 mins apart, according to your last two readings (after a bit of interpolation) it would appear to be burning double its max rate of 4m3/hr which isn't right. In order to confirm what is actually happening these two readings need to be as accurate as possible.
As for saying that everything will be ok, don't take the installers word for it until he has given you all the paperwork and filled in the Benchmark.

 

[Foxyuk]

Foxy, Do an accurate recording of readings using a stopwatch and 2 mins apart, according to your last two readings (after a bit of interpolation) it would appear to be burning double its max rate of 4m3/hr which isn't right. In order to confirm what is actually happening these two readings need to be as accurate as possible.
As for saying that everything will be ok, don't take the installers word for it until he has given you all the paperwork and filled in the Benchmark.

ok thanks.... just been to house there is no gas leak as scottish network been out , he did point out that maybe the boiler needs ranged for size of house etc.... im in a 2.3 bed bungalow original, 7 radiators 92 sqm in total..... i will do the water test tomorrow morning and report ......

hey ces !!! fancy a beer at mine not far away from me :svengo:....

 

[doitmyself]

scottish network been out , he did point out that maybe the boiler needs ranged for size of house etc.... im in a 2.3 bed bungalow original, 7 radiators 92 sqm in total

That's a valid point. An 837 has a heating output of 28kW, which is much more than a typical 2/3 bed bungalow will require. Also, seven rads will not add up to any more than 14 kW.

Who decided that you needed a 37kW boiler - you or the installer?

Did the installer measure the incoming cold water flow rate?

Use Whole House Boiler Size Calculator to find out your heating requirement (set the Domestic Hot Water Allowance to 0 as you have a combi boiler). Then get the installer to range-rate the boiler to slightly more than this.

 

[Deleted member 32524]

Why not get him to show you how to gas rate and what the readings are.

 

[doitmyself]

Just out of curiosity. I've been doing some maths

I would say the boiler is working at 26kw

Please may we see your calculation?

 

[SimonJohns]

Please may we see your calculation?

Treat your answers as imperial

 

[armourer]

Range rate the boiler, It may not need the full output?

 

[justalex81]

boiler fitted is an ecotec plus 837 by the sounds of it. This boiler does not require range rating as it modulates from 5kw. As this is a combi boiler i'd guess that the op wanted a high output of hot water (837 offers approx 15L/m), and is the reason why an 837 was chosen. Your engineer should have gas rated the appliance as part of commisioning and should have picked up on any anomalies. If the calculations are correct then something is not right.

Get your engineer to check pressure at meter when appliance is running. could be a fault with the regulator on the meter.

 

[Foxyuk]

boiler fitted is an ecotec plus 837 by the sounds of it. This boiler does not require range rating as it modulates from 5kw. As this is a combi boiler i'd guess that the op wanted a high output of hot water (837 offers approx 15L/m), and is the reason why an 837 was chosen. Your engineer should have gas rated the appliance as part of commisioning and should have picked up on any anomalies. If the calculations are correct then something is not right.

Get your engineer to check pressure at meter when appliance is running. could be a fault with the regulator on the meter.

hi there not been up to do the test as suggested previously ie run hot water for 1 minute then post a reading..... also been told to turn heating on for 2 mins take a reading then straight away time the next 2 mins and post figs here.


had the gas board checking metet for leaks and house area nothing, he said unlikely meter fauly ... the engineer went out yesterday to fit hob and said that its self modulating as you said and u should not touch anything. at moment my bath is getting installed so he said until thats done you cant do a full test etc is that correct??

when you say check pressure at meter when running what do you mean?

 

[peteheat]

Hi,

Why did you give the job to that man?

It is clear that you don't trust him questioning his work before the job is presented to you as completed.

I know if I was him and the Gas Board was called in before I was finished you would be looking for another contractor!

If the contractor is registered you have a load of consumer rights to fall back on, if you are using an apprentice, diy or unregistered contractor (which is how this thread appears to me) now you know the benefit of using registered contractors.

 

[Foxyuk]

Hi,

Why did you give the job to that man?

It is clear that you don't trust him questioning his work before the job is presented to you as completed.

I know if I was him and the Gas Board was called in before I was finished you would be looking for another contractor!

If the contractor is registered you have a load of consumer rights to fall back on, if you are using an apprentice, diy or unregistered contractor (which is how this thread appears to me) now you know the benefit of using registered contractors.

he is gas safe registered and used to work for british gas... did i say i dont trust him???????????.. im also getting the boiler scrappage scheme so it is not a homer or job on the side....im questioning it because the meter is shooting round..... what would you do?????? wait till the bill come in and then worry about it?

 

[Foxyuk]

boiler fitted is an ecotec plus 837 by the sounds of it. This boiler does not require range rating as it modulates from 5kw. As this is a combi boiler i'd guess that the op wanted a high output of hot water (837 offers approx 15L/m), and is the reason why an 837 was chosen. Your engineer should have gas rated the appliance as part of commisioning and should have picked up on any anomalies. If the calculations are correct then something is not right.

Get your engineer to check pressure at meter when appliance is running. could be a fault with the regulator on the meter.

correct i wanted the bigger boiler for water flow... etc and putting in a thermostatic shower. i previously had a vokera 28kw in last house and took ages to fill bath etc

 

[justalex81]

actually all you have to do is push 2 buttons on that boiler to put it into high fire (getting it to operate at maximum capacity) and test it. Also you only need a tap capable of delivering more than 15l of water a minute which a kitchen tap would do easily.

Actually this is all a bit pointless. get your engineer to test it NOW. If he has issue with doing it then he knows something is wrong and is trying to avoid the subject. Ask him to gas rate it and give us the figures. It's quite simple, if it doesn't add up then there is a fault and it needs fixing!!!!!!

 

[doitmyself]

boiler fitted is an ecotec plus 837 by the sounds of it. This boiler does not require range rating as it modulates from 5kw.

That would be fine if the boiler started off at minimum output and then ramped up if necessary. But it doesn't, it starts at max output and then reduces. If the boiler's max output is considerably more than the radiators can dissipate, it will cycle. In extreme cases, where the boiler's minimum output is more than the rads, the average flow temperature will be very low.

The 837 modulates between 12kW and 28kW so, as the OP has no more than about 14kW of rads, there is a considerable likelihood that the boiler is massively oversized.

The OP needs to use the calculator I gave the link for to verify his heating requirement

As this is a combi boiler i'd guess that the op wanted a high output of hot water (837 offers approx 15L/m), and is the reason why an 837 was chosen.

It will provide 15l/min IF the incoming main can deliver 15l/min. If not, all you will get is hotter water.

 

[peteheat]

he is gas safe registered and used to work for british gas... did i say i dont trust him???????????.. im also getting the boiler scrappage scheme so it is not a homer or job on the side....im questioning it because the meter is shooting round..... what would you do?????? wait till the bill come in and then worry about it?

Hi,

I would let the contractor know I was concerned about what I had seen at the meter and ask him to explain to me in plain language why this was happening.

Honestly I would have had the heat loss / load calculations carried out before I even bought the house to ensure I could afford to heat and maintain it.

It appears to me that you have nothing to worry about because you are looking at readings for a building site where the boiler is set for frost protection and turned up to suit the comfort levels for short term visitors so the system is not getting up to any meaningful long term temperature.

When you move in the house will be sealed against the elements and will / should have a fairly stable temperature maintained for example you will not be trying to heat from 5 degrees even the furniture will be holding some heat for you.

At the moment your boiler is working at full output for long periods every time it is switched on trying to get the temperature up in what from your description is a building site not a home.