Rayburn 400K

[Uncle Nick]

Hi all, I’ve a Rayburn 400K (cooker only) which has a Ecoflam Minor 1 oil burner, that I suspect needs a new pump but I’d like some help please before shelling out on a new one.
The problem is that it keeps going to lockout.
I’ve checked the oil flow to the pump and it’s fine. I’ve bled the pump and there doesn’t seem to be any air in the line.
When switched on after bleeding, the burner fires, runs for about a minute and goes to lockout.
After resetting it purges and then goes straight to lockout without firing.
It seems to me a fuel starvation issue but I don’t understand why it runs ok at first after bleeding.
Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

 

[SJB060685]

How much oil did you draw off at the pump to check oil flow?

 

[Uncle Nick]

Thanks for the reply.
Not a huge amount, maybe a mug full.

 

[SJB060685]

You need to drain off a few litres. If you drain a few litres without interruption then fuel delivery should be ok. If it's not then you would need to check any filters, valves and pipework for blockages.

 

[Uncle Nick]

I’ll go and do that now. Cheers.

 

[SJB060685]

Report back when you're done please.

 

[Uncle Nick]

Bled a good couple of litres off, didn’t appear to be any air in. Then tried to start, it went through the purge cycle but didn’t spark and then locked out.
I'm bleeding the pump where the pressure gauge would go on, even with the blank completely out there’s very little flow. Is that normal?

 

[SJB060685]

That's not normal no. This could be the pump itself or motor shaft couplings, I believe there's two on that burner but might be wrong.
You need to find someone to come and take a look. If it is the pump like you suspect you don't have the tools to set up the combustion once replaced.

 

[Uncle Nick]

Thanks for confirming that. It’s looking like new pump time.
It’s a problem getting anyone to look at the oil Rayburn, the independent guy who used to service it has retired and Walter Dix (our local Aga/Rayburn supplier) isn’t taking on any new customers at the moment.
Thanks for your help.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That's not normal no. This could be the pump itself or motor shaft couplings, I believe there's two on that burner but might be wrong.
You need to find someone to come and take a look. If it is the pump like you suspect you don't have the tools to set up the combustion once replaced.

Isn’t it supposed to spark tho ?

 

[SJB060685]

Isn’t it supposed to spark tho ?

Yes you would have ignition on during pre purge cycle on that control box until a few seconds after flame is established. I think what he meant was that there was no ignition of the fuel? Might be wrong though. Either way I'd feel much happier if he managed to find someone to sort it for him. It could be a few things but whatever it is will need tools/equipment I doubt he has.

 

[Uncle Nick]

Isn’t it supposed to spark tho ?

It wasn’t sparking. I thought it maybe wouldn’t spark if there wasn’t any fuel.

 

[SJB060685]

It wasn’t sparking. I thought it maybe wouldn’t spark if there wasn’t any fuel.

How are you sure it wasn't sparking?

 

[Uncle Nick]

Yes you would have ignition on during pre purge cycle on that control box until a few seconds after flame is established. I think what he meant was that there was no ignition of the fuel? Might be wrong though. Either way I'd feel much happier if he managed to find someone to sort it for him. It could be a few things but whatever it is will need tools/equipment I doubt he has.

You’re right, I’ve a good selection of tools but I’m missing the exhaust gas analyser. I’ve found a local guy on fb that does oil boilers so I’ll give him a ring on Monday.

 

[Uncle Nick]

How are you sure it wasn't sparking?

There wasn’t the clicking sound of the spark. I’ve checked the electrode position and it’s ok. Plus the leads are securely pushed in/on and tight.

 

[SJB060685]

You’re right, I’ve a good selection of tools but I’m missing the exhaust gas analyser. I’ve found a local guy on fb that does oil boilers so I’ll give him a ring on Monday.

I appreciate you're a hands on type of person and I know it's frustrating when your primary energy source fails and you struggle to find someone but as the old saying goes "a little knowledge is dangerous knowledge".

There wasn’t the clicking sound of the spark. I’ve checked the electrode position and it’s ok. Plus the leads are securely pushed in/on and tight.

By the sounds of it then you may have more than one problem. If it's genuinely not sparking and I would confirm this by running a specific test (which I won't explain what) then you could have a control box, box mounting plate or a dodgy transformer. You could also have a breakdown in electrode insulation and it's arching across the blast tube. You really need someone to start at the tank and work their way in.

 

[Uncle Nick]

It did cross my mind that it could be more than one fault but it was working ok and seems odd that a couple of things fail at the same time. It’s frustrating as hell, especially as sometimes it fires up and sometimes goes straight to lock out.

 

[SJB060685]

Without being in front of a troublesome burner it's hard to say what is the fault, we can only speculate.

 

[Uncle Nick]

Without being in front of a troublesome burner it's hard to say what is the fault, we can only speculate.

Exactly. I just wish you were in the north east and could come and see it.
Thanks for your help, appreciate it.

 

[Uncle Nick]

Hi again all, quick update, a local guy came out, (reluctantly - he doesn’t normally work on Rayburns and only agreed as this is a burner issue)
At first he agreed it was probably the pump but first checked the solenoid on the top, which was faulty.
A new solenoid fitted and everything working as it should. Touch wood rapidly!

 

[SJB060685]

I thought you said all solenoids were replaced?

 

[Uncle Nick]

I thought you said all solenoids were replaced?

No I replaced the electrodes and nozzle.

 

[SJB060685]

No I replaced the electrodes and nozzle.

Ah, sorry there's been a few range cooker posts recently and I got mixed up.

 

[Uncle Nick]

Ah, sorry there's been a few range cooker posts recently and I got mixed up.

No problem. I appreciate you taking the time to help.

 

[SJB060685]

Do you have a multimeter?

 

[Uncle Nick]

Yes, I used it to rule out the photocell.

 

[SJB060685]

Ok. Did you check cell to see what microamps you were getting?
The Danfoss coils on that burner are a common fail point. Usually when they fail they do so within in 10-15 minutes after ignition. They break down internally where you would get a zero resistance reading or no continuity, often they can fuse back together and you get the problem you had, alternatively they remain OL (open loop) and never work again. The new Danfoss diamond coils are supposed to be a lot more robust but still not without their problems. If you find you're going through several coils then I would consider changing the stem on the pump. I can explain to you why if you'd like or you can just bare it in mind.

 

[Uncle Nick]

I’ve just checked and there’s no continuity between any of the three terminals on the solenoid. Was that what you meant?
As far as I know, it’s the original coil so will be 8 or 9 years old. Hopefully I’ll get the same from this new one, although the engineer did recommend keeping one as a spare, which doesn’t bode well for his ideas on future reliability.

 

[SJB060685]

Danfoss coil yes?

 

[Uncle Nick]

Yes, Danfoss 071N0051 which has been replaced by the 071N1006
“Danfoss Upgraded Replacement Solenoid Coil

Offers better reliability than standard BFP Coils”

 

[SJB060685]

Yes. So you should have two terminals you should have continuity on.

 

[Uncle Nick]

Yes. So you should have two terminals you should have continuity on.

No absolutely nothing, failed completely.

 

[SJB060685]

Are you testing the new coil or old?

 

[Uncle Nick]

Old. The new coil is on the pump.

 

[SJB060685]

I assumed that but was unsure. Yes the old coil is completely dead. You should have continuity between the live and neutral connections. My multimeters read OL when checking for resistance but others read OC (open circuit). Both mean the same thing, the coil windings have broken down.