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basildog

Having been involved in all aspects of construction I was wondering how many have noticed that the new wonder material is now being replaced as in upvc windows are now going brittle guttering falls to bits and waste pipe seeems to fail too ?
I remember the pitch fibre sewers that all went oval or collapsed !
Makes me wonder how many really think about this or just bung in plastic whenever they can ??
I guess it is more work but somehow it all seems so wrong to me not doing a job that will last ?
 
Don't have any issues with plastic, but to be honest I can't remember the last time I used it. Copper all the way for the moment and it suits me just fine.

It will be interesting as time ticks on, might create a lot of work for our grand kids :)

But then again very little is made to last, no money in it. Bit like pharmaceuticals, no money in cures only treatments.
 
I'm also seeing copper pipes rotting out in no time in some areas and customers asking for plastic.
 
Well how long should a plumbing system last? 25years, 50years? I'm looking at changing over to a composite system (like Geberit Mepla) on my next load of projects

Have no problems with plastic pipe, just not so keen on the fittings
 
Well how long should a plumbing system last? 25years, 50years? I'm looking at changing over to a composite system (like Geberit Mepla) on my next load of projects

Have no problems with plastic pipe, just not so keen on the fittings

If you liked manifold system then very little fittings
 
id never win a job if i quoted for 1/12 copper for my waste pipework. What choice do you have? most new builds wont outlast there plastics anyway.
 
id never win a job if i quoted for 1/12 copper for my waste pipework. What choice do you have? most new builds wont outlast there plastics anyway.

Plastic soil pipes probably 30 + years, especially if hidden from sunlight or painted. Bath & sink wastes will be about the same if properly fitted & painted - even push fit waste fittings last well, but they likely will be changed often when bathrooms are replaced.
 
Plastic soil pipes probably 30 + years, especially if hidden from sunlight or painted. Bath & sink wastes will be about the same if properly fitted & painted - even push fit waste fittings last well, but they likely will be changed often when bathrooms are replaced.

exactly, most new build will fall down before 30 years are up :)
 
Crazy thing is a lot of old stuff will last that long it just feels so wrong fitting stuff that you know deep down is total rubbish ?
 
Crazy thing is a lot of old stuff will last that long it just feels so wrong fitting stuff that you know deep down is total rubbish ?

Very true! - seems a backward step to replace old, but top quality brass ball valves, brass stopcocks, cast iron baths & toilets & boilers with the new tat!
I used a 40+ year old 1/2 thread Peglers gatevalve for a new oil tank recently, as I couldn't see it being thrown away. Lovely heavy brass & a cast iron head on it & like brand new despite being out in all weathers all those years!
 
I am from a background of working on listed buildings so reusing cast iron rads and guttering or a nice old soil system is what I am talking about ?
Did one job with I think 90 rads the cleaned and tested all then sent away to be shot blasted and painted then retested on return I think 2 failed !
New ones were added also and guess which ones had pin holes ?
 
I think it is actually immoral to use cheap materials on a job where the customer is prepared to pay for better quality stuff. Seems bad to, for example, use plastic fittings & pipe on a small alteration to a nice quality all copper heating system.
Hate also all this "throw it in a skip" mentality on a lot of house fixing & clearing out programmes on tv these days.
 
There was a period of time I beilieve it was in the seventies when there was a copper shortage the pipework from that era was so thin you can just fold the stuff up !
 
There was a period of time I beilieve it was in the seventies when there was a copper shortage the pipework from that era was so thin you can just fold the stuff up !


"Yorkshire thin wall" copper is what was used in the seventies. It has a red line down the length of the pipe, only broken by the letters " Y-T-W ". More penny pinching for plumbers I think.
You could not bend it, so only use it for straight lengths.
The copper shortage was a different issue & foreign made copper pipes were being sold - I was told made in Germany, which were stronger harder copper than the standard British stuff.
 
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You can fold the stuff up like paper when you remove it !

Less weight for scrap also! :-(
Actually was okay for heating pipes & lasted as long as ordinary copper on heating. Wasn't much of a saving I think, but plumbers bought the cheapest often!
Think it was harder copper. If it had have been standard hardness, it would have bent over with it's own weight as it was so thin.
Was always a curse, as if you mixed standard & thin wall pipe together & reached for a perfect sized cutting to discover you couldn't bend it!
 
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Plumbing in houses will shortly be superfluous.With so many people in the country/on the planet and so little water we will only be able to get it from standpipes in the street!
 
Plumbing in houses will shortly be superfluous.With so many people in the country/on the planet and so little water we will only be able to get it from standpipes in the street!
I think I would actually like to see a world where that happens it may well do in a few generations but how many of them could survive fending for themselves ?
 
nothing wrong with the daily mail does excellent formula 1 coverage
 
The thing is I have never had a copper fitting split on its own (except freezing or steam). Known loads of people with plastic fittings under normal loads split & after time plastic joints weeping under expansion, with system pressure loss, nightmare to find.. Was sold down the line years ago with hep2o, 50 year guarantee providing you produce your original receipt & are accompanied by your grandparents, before they will pay for repairs to the house. Trouble is I am getting too old for all this :(
 
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.... Was sold down the line years ago with hep2o, 50 year guarantee providing you produce your original receipt & are accompanied by your grandparents, before they will pay for repairs to the house. Trouble is I am getting too old for all this :(

The 50 year so called warranty only covers for manufactures defects, I think, - in other words it isn't covered for 50 years & who would be surprised that pieces of plastic with O rings used on very hot water & or high pressure will not have a guaranteed long life!
 
You could not bend it, so only use it for straight lengths.

You can actually. 15mm is easy and 22mm takes a few trys to get right every time.
Won a few bets on that one years ago but generally it is not advisable as it thinned too much.

Copper years back was much thicker and softer than it is these days which is probably why it has lasted so long with no problems. A few times i've come across screwed copper (i still have a bit and a couple of fittings lying somewhere that i cut out of a job) in early 1900's big houses which would have been top quality work at the time. Even up until the 50's early 60's the copper was still thick and strong and the brass fittings were real bush brass.
Into the 70's and things are starting to slim down but thinwall excepted, the pipe is still decently thick.
When i started working (73) i remember doing a new build on a bungalow and pulling a 20ft length from the tee for the sink right onto the ballcock (i was told to do the Belgian burl, rough eh:lol:) no kinks just easily hand bent.
By the late 80's the imported stuff was coming in from Europe (the stuff screwfix still sell). Harder and thinner and cheaper. Definitely a different composition. Bang it on the ground and get the orange dust out.
Now most pipe sold is nothing like the pipe of 30 or more years ago and buy anything over 35mm and it is thinwall.
A bit like a kit kat is still a kit kat but if you are old enough you now it is half the size.
The world is now run by accountants. Everything, even once good brands, is made for the lowest possible cost with the maximum profit. We are being fed shyte and swallowing it.

The water up here is very soft so copper failures are still very rare but brass is different.
 
I used some of the Yorkshire thin wall for straight lengths for vent pipes where there was no need for heavier pipe, I think in the 70s. Was a pain as had to always look for the red line when lifting cuttings.
The 28mm nowadays looks like the stuff of a few years ago, but something is different as it is a delicate job to bend it without a crease, although I manage it.
Those old brass Instantor fittings are like new yet most are 50 year or more old. Yet the new compression fittings corrode from you fit them.
Water over here varies but a lot of areas it is very good & not hard on copper thankfully.
 
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The pipe is changing but according to the bs en's they are still the same thickness. Maybe not as pure as they once were or made from recycled copper. Something is certainly different even on the British pipe.
When i started we "recycled" solder ie melted it off the old joints into a pot and threw a bit block tin in to get a better mix then poured it into cast iron molds to make bars.
If you could work it you could work anything, it was rubbish but done the job.
Do you ever come across the old brass PDM drifted fittings. Now they really were built to last.
I'll have a look in the scrap pile and see if i have any.
 
I got a fair number of drifted fittings from someone a few years ago.
All unused brand new condition & heavy.
A real shame, but just put them in the scrap box!
Did the same with a load of fittings, mostly unused, that a very elderly man give me. Had lots of "new" imperial Yorkshire 3/4" tees, copper traps & things I never expected to see new. Such good quality large & heavy fittings! Also had a British made black W.C. cistern from the 50s/early60s still in it's cardboard box. All brass works Inc the o/f standpipe, except the syphon. But what struck me was the cistern handle quality - it was a large heavy chromed brass handle (with brass link bar etc) & the handle was still in it's protective gum it had been dipped in. Nowadays it's a cheap chromed plastic handle thrown in a bag along with all the other cistern tat!
 
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ive been a fan of manifolds since plastic came in we used to bring the main in below the bath and run every thing out from there usually just one tee on the hot below the boiler for the kitchen
 
I think it is actually immoral to use cheap materials on a job where the customer is prepared to pay for better quality stuff. Seems bad to, for example, use plastic fittings & pipe on a small alteration to a nice quality all copper heating system.
Hate also all this "throw it in a skip" mentality on a lot of house fixing & clearing out programmes on tv these days.






On a contract basis we get less problems with plastic than copper,we have been using poly pipe barrier pipe(white fittings) and got to say it is good kit,with the manifold you use very few fittings
 
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