Nightmare with a plumber

[Richrara]

Long story short: hired a plumber with 65 positive feedback (100% total) on my builder to channel pipes in and replace radiators which were 40 years old. Apart from destroying all the carpets, throwing furniture out in the rain and trying to fill cornicing (which looked like he'd chewed out with his teeth) in with cement, the heating - which worked perfectly with the old radiators (and Worcester Bosch boiler which had been in for 2 years) is no longer working properly (only 50% of rads now get hot). He reckons its cos the pipes were 'installed lazily by whoever did the boiler (they run in a loop around a downstairs cupboard) - but the heating was ALL working fine before he installed the new rads.
I suggested to him that could it be as he has now installed much bigger rads than before (old ones were singles, these are doubles) - and he said 'maybe...but it's the piping they did that's the main problem'...so...he's now intending on replacing a load of piping (just charging me for materials) but I'm concerned this won't fix it. So I have 3 questions really...

1) is it possible that the radiators he has installed are too big for the boiler to cope with (he keeps telling me it's too small a boiler for the house...but it's worked perfectly before he replaced the rads)?
2) if that's the case what should I do? He's quoting 3k to replace heating system; but there is no way I would have had new rads in had it meant replacing the entire heating system (which as I keep saying worked perfectly before).
3) hes intending on removing the magna clean that is installed entirely as he said 'they've put it on the return so it isn't doing anything anyway'...should I let him do this?

Any help hugely appreciated.

For the record he's tried to balance them three times with no luck. Also it's an old gravity fed system.

Thanks

 

[Riley]

Also surely system was cleaned at time of boiler install???

 

[firemant]

Yep. Find plumber number 3.
Best practice is for MVC to be on return immediately before boiler, but is sometimes impossible to do, and on the flow is not wrong if only choice.
Do not pay for a PF at this stage. If it was working okay before, it wont suddenly get full of sludge. There is something silly going on, and sometimes one cannot see the wood for the trees. The plumber has to start from the basics. I was getting a headache trying to work out the pipe runs from the photos, but I would be looking at:
a/ Air Lock
b/ a valve that is closed, or partially closed. Either because it has not been opened properly or is internally damaged
c/ Does hot water work okay? If not, blockage in heat exchanger. Possible movemnet of muck in system when draining / filling.
d/ Crud entered the system when re-piping. It does happen.
Has motorised valve been checked?
Although a little irrelevant to the actual probem - Why were you chasing pipes in? How was that done - what measures were taken to prevent the plaster cracking from heat?

 

[stevetheplumber]

magna cant be blocked or shut of as the op has hot water the magna is where it is as theres no way to fit it adacent to boiler as pipework is to close to ceiling and any magna is better than none

 

[thompsonbrown]

Sounds like air to me.
If you've replaced all the rads and the system already had a magna clean fitted you probably don't need the system flushed.
The boiler is more than capable of dealing with the bigger radiators.
Given the pipework lay out its more than likely air in the system you have no air vents fitted which will make it harder to remove but not impossible. any decent gas fitter should have that up and running quite quick.
also advise checking your valves on the boiler, magna clean filter and rtn pipe from cylinder are all fully open. Also there is a small water sample point on the boiler, opening this into a bucket to remove any air might also be worth considering.

 

[REDSAW]

turn off rads bar one, then follow heat pipe from boiler...
stick hose on drain off and open ...

easy to try

 

[Stanios]

magna cant be blocked or shut of as the op has hot water the magna is where it is as theres no way to fit it adacent to boiler as pipework is to close to ceiling and any magna is better than none

No magna is better than a horizontal magna

 

[Radioman]

We had a super heating engineer from Shefford work on our property, came highly recommended by neighbours, always the best way imho, pm me for his details if you like. I warn you though he is very busy, like all great HE in my experience.

Am I right in thinking that under the latest regs only Competent Persons in other words Benchmark Members can work on central heating, either gas or electric, as it is now notifiable to building controls?

 

[AWheating]

We had a super heating engineer from Shefford work on our property, came highly recommended by neighbours, always the best way imho, pm me for his details if you like. I warn you though he is very busy, like all great HE in my experience.

Am I right in thinking that under the latest regs only Competent Persons in other words Benchmark Members can work on central heating, either gas or electric, as it is now notifiable to building controls?

Anyone can do anything in the uk tbh, but you must be competent in the eyes of the law to touch anything really, you can prove competency in gas and electrical installation/work by being a member of a competent persons scheme in theory.

any body can do plumbing and heating works, it's only when it goes wrong most people and companies question competence

 

[Radioman]

Anyone can do anything in the uk tbh, but you must be competent in the eyes of the law to touch anything really, you can prove competency in gas and electrical installation/work by being a member of a competent persons scheme in theory.

any body can do plumbing and heating works, it's only when it goes wrong most people and companies question competence

Not quite as simple as you make it sound. A quick google produced this from gov.uk

http://www.competentperson.co.uk/pdfs/buildingworkleaflet.pdf

Some surprising additions now just be notified, such as a new flat roof covering. Imho it's always best to notify, especially if you are planning on selling the property or need to make an insurance claim.

 

[newcastle phill]

What a crock - obviously not free

"Adding a radiator may need notifying"

Well i guess they are simply looking to raise new revenue streams of taxation. As simple as that in my view.

 

[Radioman]

What a crock - obviously not free

"Adding a radiator may need notifying"

Well i guess they are simply looking to raise new revenue streams of taxation. As simple as that in my view.

You think? Don't forget the major changes to the Consumer Act last October! I reckon about half the jobs I did between 10 and 20 years ago would need notification now. Eg new en suite, new cloakroom with EC, new bathroom lights, new HWC, new immersion heater element

 

[jtsplumbing]

You think? Don't forget the major changes to the Consumer Act last October! I reckon about half the jobs I did between 10 and 20 years ago would need notification now. Eg new en suite, new cloakroom with EC, new bathroom lights, new HWC, new immersion heater element

This is all very well But who is going monitor it, are we going to have notification police :bobby: knocking on peoples doors and asking to inspect there homes, and what about the DIY brigade ? who monitors them ?? Just waiting for when we have to notify how much toilet paper gets used . :toilet:

 

[plumben]

.

I'd say that your problem is most likely
air lock or pour balancing of the system,

You wont need a power flush and i cant see why you'd be happy to pay for one but not for just the materials for the original chap
however if you've lost confidence in him then that that

I'd get another couple of experienced heating engineers round to have a look, It's most likely something simple, and i wouldnt have any alterations done or powerflush until someones played with the system balancing and such

 

[AWheating]

Not quite as simple as you make it sound. A quick google produced this from gov.uk

http://www.competentperson.co.uk/pdfs/buildingworkleaflet.pdf

Some surprising additions now just be notified, such as a new flat roof covering. Imho it's always best to notify, especially if you are planning on selling the property or need to make an insurance claim.

for years and years many many jobs have been notifiable, probably a good percentage of work thats not a like for like swap has always been. What should be and what is done is a different matter.

The only trades that have any sort of policing is gas and electrical through its cps's however good you may feel this is currently done.

unless customers are willing to cover the huge cost increase in policing work done it will never change, from my experience most customers want the cheapest price and only care about such things as regulations when problems bite them.

 

[firemant]

Poor balancing won't stop heating working. It makes it less good, sometimes. Do we KNOW hot water is working well? If so, then the problem wil be air or blockage, either crud or partially open valve. IMO