My simple but mind blowing plumbing problems.

[John The Rad]

Hi to all
Just registered on this site. (didn't know it existed) This is my first post.

I'm wondering if anyone has had a problem that was driving them crazy but when sorted it was so easy.

I was called to a terraced house in Huyton Village Merseyside. The house was a couple of hundred years old.

The problem was that her conventional boiler (Thorn Lightweight) was leaking. The leak would stop then start again
If the central heating was running then there was no problem and no leaks.

The customer said that she'd had three other plumbers out and each time they said that they had sorted the problem, but not long after they had gone the leak would start again, and it was driving her crazy.
She rang the last plumber to come back, but when he arrived, the leak had stopped.
He suggested a new boiler.

The first two never came back.

Then it was my turn.

When I arrived I could see that there had been a leak because the worktop was wet.
I stripped the boiler down as far as possible but could find no leaks.
I told the customer that although I couldn't find any leaks, as I was working not far from her address if she rang me on my mobile when it was actually leaking I would rush to her house and try and solve the problem.

About three hours later she rang, so I dropped what I was doing and rushed around to her house.

Sure enough her worktop was wet again, so I quickly took the boiler casing off.
Water dribbled out of the casing when I removed it but again, I couldn't find any leaks.

I was determined to sort this problem so I said I would call back the next day and have another go.

It was while I was having my tea that night, that the probable answer just popped into my head.

I went around to the house the next day and my theory was correct.
Can any of you experienced plumbers guess what the answer was.

 

[so-solar]

heat exchanger was slightly cracked! expanding when it was hot, contracting when it was cold, allowing the water to pass?

 

[david williams]

it should have been obvious ,from the fact it only happened when cold

 

[Dave]

I had a very similar problem with mine just before last xmas....it was the heat exchanger and O rings..and that took 3 goes to diagnose by Ideal engineer...

 

[Puddle]

That was my first thought so-lar,happens alot when boiler closed off when people move out or go on holiday and boiler in off for a while,with the old cast iron boilers

But seeing how it came to John the rad in a blinding flash of insperation
I will go for overflow leaking,running down pipework,into boiler or when kittle Johny gets cold he wee's in the corner

Ps John,what was you having for tea,if it causes answers to problems to pop into your head,I could do with a few plates of that

 

[John The Rad]

That was my first thought so-lar,happens alot when boiler closed off when people move out or go on holiday and boiler in off for a while,with the old cast iron boilers

But seeing how it came to John the rad in a blinding flash of insperation
I will go for overflow leaking,running down pipework,into boiler or when kittle Johny gets cold he wee's in the corner

Ps John,what was you having for tea,if it causes answers to problems to pop into your head,I could do with a few plates of that

Puddle wins the accolades.
It was the overflow from the WC above the boiler which was dripping onto the boiler flue and finding its way into the boiler then dropping onto the work top.

It was the irregular intermittent leaking that gave me the clue.
When the WC was flushed, it took about two hours before the overflow started to drip, unless someone used the toilet in the meantime (Probably little Johnny), in which case it took longer.

I must have been eating the same meal as you when you came up with the answer in such a short time.

Well done, I'm impressed.

JTR

PS does anyone have a similar story to tell.
Every solved problem is another possible solution to someone else's nightmare.

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

Odd jobs!

I once went to service a boiler and found a birds nest complete with egg inside. There was only one tiny spoke missing out the flue terminal as well. And the tenants and been using the boiler with no ill effects.

 

[bcp]

Instant breakfast then?

 

[John The Rad]

I once fitted an immersion heater in a Chinese chip shop.
I had to remove the cover off an old fashioned brown square mains switch.
There was a perfect skeleton of a mouse inside.
I was amazed that the mouse could have fitted through such a tiny cable hole, cut into the plywood board that the switch was screwed to, and got inside.

I've posted this again because I double posted it before.
I'll get the hang of it eventually.


I do have a boiler problem, I hope you guys have come across before.
Most boiler faults are repetitious and are usually dealt with. This one isn't so straight forward.

The boiler is a Glow Worm Betacom 24 (Which is really a Heatline with a Glow Worm Logo).

The symptoms are:-

The boiler fires up, but the gas flame goes out after about 15 seconds. Waits about 30 seconds, then lights up again for a further 15 seconds.
This sequence keeps repeating.

Pump and fan are working perfectly. The boiler looks fairly new.
I suspect that there is still guarantee left, but for some reason the customers don't want to wait. I'm not arguing, I need the work at the moment.

There are no LEDs flashing so there is no self fault diagnosing taking place.

Whatever the problem is, it affects both CH & DHW.


I am reluctant to phone the Tech boys. They will probably say it's a PCB fault. They usually do. But I will ring them, if nobody here has any suggestions.
Any input would be appreciated.

After looking at the Installation Manual, I am pretty sure it's the thermostat limiter and that is what I'm going to replace tomorrow before I ring Technical Advice, unless someone here has a better idea.

In case anyone is interested in the result I'll post what happened tomorrow night (Monday)

JTR

 

[Puddle]

I am more suprised the chineese take away missed catching the mouse and adding to one of the dishs,I have warned about this siduation to my local take away, if they cook all the cats,this kind of waste will happen

 

[so-solar]

sounds like a dodgy air pressure switch mate but dont quote me on that! what makes you think it is the thermostat limiter? If the stat was faulty and gone out on high limit, surely the boiler would not fire at all?

 

[Puddle]

sounds like a dodgy air pressure switch mate but dont quote me on that!

Oh Sorry,could not resist

Think the main problem is that you are working on a combination boiler that costs £380 new,what glowworm are thinking I do not know

Why do they find it so hard to produce a decent combi

Could be air presure switch or fan speed or flue problem
Do.nt want to be boring but should think its that unrealiable pcb not sensing correctly

 

[Bernie2]

It sounds like ignition train problem somewhere. Try the flame sensor's not dirty and its contacts are okay, as well as the other suggestions. You can use a multi meter to check the flame sensor, if you have one that registers low enough.

 

[John The Rad]

Changed the limiter.
Boiler working fine.

It must have been turning off the gas flame at about 10 degrees C.

 

[Bernie2]

Did you bridge it out? That would have told you for sure perhaps?

 

[david williams]

have you checked flue

 

[Rydell]

I had a similar problem where a customer reported a leak from under her combi boiler. She had two other plumbers out to fix a leak from within the boiler but it kept coming back. I was called and looked at the same places no doubt other heating engineers would have looked but.... When we go to a boiler leak we clear the items below so we don't damage any thing when removing the casings or using tools. One of the items was a kettle. This was the cause of the 'leak' from within the system! So I told her to move the kettle from under the combi so the steam went some where else rather than condensing within the boiler when cooling and dripping onto the worktop underneath. That fixed the problem!

 

[John The Rad]

I had a job once, which taxed the minds of a few plumbers
I used to work, on contract, for the local Council’s emergency after hours call out section.
There was a problem regarding a bath, which was leaking, into the room below.
The Council plumbers had first tightened the tap connectors then later replaced the fibre washers. Later still they replaced the trap, but the problem still persisted.
The leak kept coming back, but not continuously.
Sometimes it would be weeks before it started to leak. Other times it would be days.
They were about to replace the whole bath but it started to leak one night, after 5 O’clock, which meant that the job was passed onto the emergency plumber. Me.
I found the problem almost immediately (swank).
It certainly got me some brownie points from the council bosses.

I have no doubt that some of the more experienced plumbers on this forum would have got the answer just as quick as I did.
Anyone got any ideas.

 

[leadpig]

bath seals

 

[John The Rad]

Not that simple.
Remember, several plumbers had a go at finding the fault.

The leak kept coming back, but not continuously.
Sometimes it would be weeks before it started to leak. Other times it would be days.

This was the clue.

.

 

[Puddle]

well how about taps not turned off fully sometime,and small weep runs back down spout onto bath end then down side

 

[leadpig]

thats what i was thinking

 

[bobpape]

Bath taps not sealed to bath or seal broken.

 

[John The Rad]

Puddle's done it again. (Gasp with admiration)

You'd be amazed how many younger guys didn't solve that simple problem.
I'm only posting simple faults that were a swine to solve.
I hate those taps with the sloping spout that allows this to happen.
The council stopped buying them after this had been pointed out.
Apparently this wasn't the first time they had run into this problem.

As for the tap to bath seals. I didn't find many council baths where they had bothered to fit them.

 

[david williams]

poor design poor plumbing it all adds up

 

[heinz57]

Will keep an eye out for that one, well done to puddle, does he get a cash
prize or something?

 

[John The Rad]

Fitted a 1.5 stainless steel sink today. Hate these bloody things, especially the waste systems they supply with them.
Not compatible with British traps. Managed to join the two waste outlets together without drilling another hole in the wall.
Had to use a bath trap for the small sink nothing else would fit.
Trouble was the customer wanted a garden tap fitted as well, so a bit crowded under there.

I replaced an oval shaped plastic sink. (Not a 1.5)

It was sunny today and the sun was reflecting off the new stainless steel sink and dazzling everybody.
The customer said. "Ooh I never thought of that.
Now he will probably have to buy a sun awning for over the window.
I almost had a catastrophe when I pushed the washing machine back and it only just fitted past the small sink with millimeters to spare. Whew.

Anyone got any good tips regarding the waste systems.

 

[Plouasne]

Never had a problem with fitting the wastes, the problem is that UK traps have a spigot on them unlike continental traps, simple solution, cut off the spigot

 

[Hugh]

It would be best to put a new high efficent boiler in save you money in the long run!!

 

[John The Rad]

It would be best to put a new high efficent boiler in save you money in the long run!!

Pardon?