How many of you are going to one of these

[unguided1]

Hi Guys

I went to one of these last year at Basingstoke and found the meeting to be completly unsatisfactory I will be going again to the next one to hear the results so what do you guys think of it all

Competence Review 2010/2011 ​

Information validation workshops in July 2011​

​

Dear Some of the registered businesses may have already received this email, if so, please ignore it. As you may be aware, Gas Safe Register is facilitating a review into the current competence requirements for gas registration. Last autumn we carried out information gathering workshops around the country and, from the gathered feedback, we designed and launched a survey available online which helped us gather even more views. Thank you to those who attended the workshops, those who sent us their comments and those who filled in the survey already - your input is appreciated.The survey has now closed and we are beginning the process of interpreting the responses and gathering them into key themes. As part of this process we are also keen to ‘play back’ some of these initial findings to those in the industry and to validate the areas for further investigation. We will also ask you this time, what solutions you would suggest to improve the current ACS system.The dates and venues for the workshops are:

​ DATE​	​ ​ VENUE​	​ TIME​
04/07/2011	Energy & Utility Skills Limited, Friars Gate, 1011 Stratford Road, Shirley, Solihull, B90 4BN	​ 4pm – 7pm
05/07/2011	Logic Certification, Unit 2, 1 Rowdell Road NORTHOLT Middlesex UB5 5QR	4pm – 7pm
07/07//2011	Gas Flare, Unit 3, Foundry Lane, Fishponds Industrial Estate, Fishponds,Bristol, BS5 7XH	4pm – 7pm
11/07/2011	Holiday Inn Glasgow Airport, Abbotsinch, Paisley PA3 2TE, United Kingdom	4pm – 7pm
12/07/2011	Natural Gas Training Centre, Nelson Way, Nelson Ind Estate, Cramlington, Northumberland, NE23	4 p.m.-7 p.m.
13/07/2011	Ravenheat, Chartists Way Morley Leeds West Yorkshire LS27 9ET	4pm – 7pm
18/07/2011	Gas Safe Register, 200 Cedarwood, Chineham Business Park, Crockford Lane, Basingstoke, Hampshire, RG24 8WD	4pm – 7pm
21/07/2011	Coleg Glan Hafren Trowbridge Campus Trowbridge Road Rumney Cardiff CF3 1XZ	4 p.m. - 7 p.m.

If you would like to attend please reply by 30 June, advising the date and the venue you are able to attend and we will then send confirmations and agendas out in due course. You can reply via: competencereview@User PlumbersForums.net Instead - Copy the content, don't link to it.co.uk,or by post:Competence Review c/o Gas Safe RegisterPO BOX 6804BasingstokeRG24 4NB Space is likely to be limited so we will allocate people on a first serve, first come basis.We are aware that not everyone will be able to attend, however we are still very interested in hearing your viewpoints and would encourage you to send your comments to us. We look forward to seeing you, Yours sincerely Simon AyersGas Safe Register

 

[Dannypipe]

Can you elaborate on unsatisfactory please? Been getting the emails about this years.

 

[anz]

Is this the one where they are discussing if we should take our ACS every year instead of five?

 

[Barry98]

i would rather knock nine inch nails through my man part end

 

[unguided1]

Can you elaborate on unsatisfactory please? Been getting the emails about this years.

Hi DP

The reason I found it unsatisfactory is because as a competence review they are only interested in gas appliances now as far as certain appliances like cookers and gas fires this is fine, but when it comes to boilers again the focus is only on the appliance and not on the system, when a customer asks for a gas safe installer to repair their boiler because its not working, they firstly assume its the boiler and not the system controls or the system and the person that they are entrusting to keep them safe is fine with appliances and their heating system. But what happens where you have a newly trained gas engineer who has no idea about systems


You only have to look at the threads on here about the very subject of trainning, where can I get corgi registerd, how long will it take for me to do a gas course, how much is a gas course.

So the reason I was unhappy is that when I pointed this out to them I was basiclly told that it was not in their remit to discuss anything other than gas Also I have a bad feeling that they will try to introduce a QMS system like the MCS has in which gas I will stop being Gas Safe registerd and will start working illegaly

 

[Dannypipe]

I agree, and still feel that proper apprenticeships would stop people getting released onto the public domain as 'qualified' heating engineers when in fact all they know is how to answer their ACS exam questions.

It takes many years to get a grasp of the fundamentals of heating and controls, and even when you understand systems, all that happens is the learning curve plateaus a little. You still need to be open minded and keep learning. My father has been in the business man and boy and I still teach him new things I've picked up and he still has lots to teach a 33 year old whipper snapper like me.

Finally I have no idea what you mean by QMS. You mean they'll look at change the regulatory body again?

Cheers,

Dan

 

[unguided1]

Sorry QMS refers to the quality management system currently employed by MCS to prove your not a cowboy, It is my belief that gas safe, oftec and heatas will before long be introducing these systems, I have no proof but I still think its coming

 

[gaspastemania]

i personally think gas safe is an outright con after my dealings with them recently and any email they send me these days just gets deleted instantly .

 

[GasSafePR]

Hello all

There are some limits on what the Competence Review can look at but only insofar that it is concerned with 'competence as it relates to gas safety' - that could cover systems as well as appliances. Other than those basic ground rules our role in the review isn't to define the debate or come up with the answers - we are simply gathering the views that come in so if there are things that you do want to see discussed then it is your opportunity to put the topic on the table.

GasSafePR

 

[unguided1]

So when I brought up my concerns about the fact that systems were not taken into account why was I silenced and things moved briskley on, Also who exactly are you collating all this information for?

 

[unguided1]

So when I brought up my concerns about the fact that systems were not taken into account why was I silenced and things moved briskley on, Also who exactly are you collating all this information for?

Well 2 days have passed and no response, And I am paying almost £200 a year for this sort of service, Just so you know Gas Safe PR I am extremley unsatisfied with the way things are going in our industry and I will be coming down to the basingstoke meeting and Will expect some answers, and I would prefer not to be brushed aside this time as I feel that any engineer working on Gasboilers has got to have an extensive knowledge of heating systems also I want know if you intend to adopt this rediculous QMS that has appeared in the MCS, Also I want to know exactly who all this information is being collated for, not the departments I want the muppets names

 

[unguided1]

on the 18/7/11 I will be at the meeting at Gas Safe head office I will be asking many question this is your chance if you have not been invited to one of these meetings to put your questions and comments forward, I will be more than happy to ask them on your behalf, also how many other people from this forum will be at the same meeting?

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

on the 18/7/11 I will be at the meeting at Gas Safe head office I will be asking many question this is your chance if you have not been invited to one of these meetings to put your questions and comments forward, I will be more than happy to ask them on your behalf, also how many other people from this forum will be at the same meeting?

We are not going. Hubby & I have followed these gsr discusions but not contributed.
I just wanted to say to you UNGUIDED1 thanks for going at them like this.
A lot of us complain but often don't do anything about it.
Having read what you have said here and in other threads I am completely in support of your general concerns and you must know you speak for many people not just yourself.
If there is any way I can help but from the comfortable position of here at my laptop just let me know.

 

[unguided1]

We are not going. Hubby & I have followed these gsr discusions but not contributed.
I just wanted to say to you UNGUIDED1 thanks for going at them like this.
A lot of us complain but often don't do anything about it.
Having read what you have said here and in other threads I am completely in support of your general concerns and you must know you speak for many people not just yourself.
If there is any way I can help but from the comfortable position of here at my laptop just let me know.

Hi Mrs Tara Plumbing

Thank you for your vote of confidence I know that for some people my views can be a bit radical and unpopular and belive me I feel that the Gas Safe register is a good thing but It does not go far enough and my problem is expressing my thoughts into words properly, I know that they are only working to a mandate but the point I am trying to make is the mandate is wrong and more focus has got to be put onto the heating installation as well as the heatsource and I would love to see my industry finally moulded into a single industry like the industry that I trained to be in 30 years ago, I have been trying to gain support for the campaign to change the MCS and the electricians have embraced the MCS as a good thing and I think the main reason for this is their industry has not been splintered like ours as far as I am aware.

 

[Mrs Tara Plumbi]

The industry 30 years ago?
My hubby began his apprenticeship ONLY 25 years ago.

My grandfather, on the other hand, was also a plumber/heating engineer from about 1950s+ and my granny is always on about the days when plumbers were doing lead on the roofs and putting glass into windows!

 

[unguided1]

Just a reminder that if you have any questions that you would like me to put to gas safe at the meeting on the 18/7/11 then now is the time to put them

 

[unguided1]

Well today is the day and no one has posted any questions which I am surprised about, So I will check to see if there are any questions later on before I go and I will report how things went either later on tonight or sometime tomorrow.
I would like to say though this is your trade and your oppertunity to question why our industry is in such a state

 

[gasmarc]

i have just read this post and missed the boat , I would ask GSR why they are not stopping people that are not gas safe registered from advertising that they replace boilers etc

 

[GQuigley67]

also missed this post unguided, I got a survey off my inspector though last week to fill out and I wrote about how they should be checking the heating system as a whole not just the gas part....he also informed me that you don't need to notify boilers in scotland, only england, but that's building control.

 

[unguided1]

Hi guys

Just got back from the meeting and it was very interesting, They were going through the results of the online questionaire which ended up with loadsa pie charts and graphs,
I asked a number of questions and made a number of statements about the state of the industry to which the reply was the standard this is a competence review, but at least I wasnt shot down in flames as badly as I was at the first meeting, I also asked the person taking the meeting at the end If Gas Safe were planning to take on this rediculous QMS that has been introduced with the MCS and he said as far as he knows it is not.

I must have been reading your mind GQ as I did mention whole system competence for gas engineers but as they have stated before this is only a gas competence review, but I did say that its not enough and that considering this review is reported back to the HSE then HSE should be notified wether it will happen I dunno,

Overall I think that this meeting was much better than the first one I went to but I still feel that they are working to a very constrained remit and that the use of pie charts and graphs is a big mistake as we all know that politicians use such things to juggle figures to make negatives look like positives and positives look like negatives therefore actual figures instead of percentages would have been better,
If anyone has any questions about the meeting please feel free to ask and I will try to remeber as much as I can