Combi boiler for a 4 bathroom house - Advice please

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timmyjane

Problem. I want to convert my loft, huge cold water tank in loft and hot tank where I need to put stairs. I need 4 showers. Good water pressure to the house but not tested, comes out so forcefully in kitchen that the stop tap needed turning down a lot.

Current system not good enough for 2 showers.

A combi system I have seen seems to give a flow rate of 45 litres a minute at 60C, the ACV Heatmaster 85 Combi condensing boiler, it could go in a downstairs cupboard.

Anyone have this system in, or knows how much it is.

Are there any alternatives more widely available (worried about servicing), looked at Glow worm ultra power 100/170 sx, has a good flow rate of 36 litres a minute but at 35C, is there anything else out there, think the ACV may be very costly.

Advice very appreciated.


​
 
Forget the combi.

Get a plumber with GSR and G3 in. Get your static and dynamic flow rates and pressures checked.

And then consider an unvented cylinder.

Get 3 or 4 quotes. Don't go for the cheapest.

You might as well buy a bottle of snake oil as go for a combi!
 
croppie said:
Forget the combi.

Get a plumber with GSR and G3 in. Get your static and dynamic flow rates and pressures checked.

And then consider an unvented cylinder.

Get 3 or 4 quotes. Don't go for the cheapest.

You might as well buy a bottle of snake oil as go for a combi!
Click to expand...

Beat me to it :)
 
If you look at the OP, the product they are considering is not really a combi, its a light commercial product.

Sorry, I am not familiar with it, but will have a read up of the spec and answer later.
 
It is light commercial Ray, And they'd require upgrades to the gas meter, pipework et al.

And us commercial boys ain't cheap either!
 
timmyjane said:
Problem. I want to convert my loft, huge cold water tank in loft and hot tank where I need to put stairs. I need 4 showers. Good water pressure to the house but not tested, comes out so forcefully in kitchen that the stop tap needed turning down a lot.

Current system not good enough for 2 showers.

A combi system I have seen seems to give a flow rate of 45 litres a minute at 60C, the ACV Heatmaster 85 Combi condensing boiler, it could go in a downstairs cupboard.

Anyone have this system in, or knows how much it is.

Are there any alternatives more widely available (worried about servicing), looked at Glow worm ultra power 100/170 sx, has a good flow rate of 36 litres a minute but at 35C, is there anything else out there, think the ACV may be very costly.

Advice very appreciated.


​
Click to expand...

The acv would do your job no problem at all it's designed for a lot more but the cost will be high
If you have the budget then yes it be a terrific job
It's as said light commercial not really a combi boiler as most would know them
Acv are terrific

Your other option is as said check your mains pressure and flow rate and you could go for a unvented cylinder
But a standard combi would be a no go in my eyes for you
 
ACV is the daddy. It's a bit like a powermax. Perhaps consider an ideal logic 24kw system boiler and an ACV unvented cylinder ? More hot water than u could shake a stick or even four sticks at.
 
Dont get me wrong, I love ACV's but one would be overkill for this job. Small hotel or b&b's maybe.

I weren't expecting the thread to go off in this direction! Lol.
 
croppie said:
Dont get me wrong, I love ACV's but one would be overkill for this job. Small hotel or b&b's maybe.

I weren't expecting the thread to go off in this direction! Lol.
Click to expand...

But croppie wouldn't you love to have that bad boy in your home I know I would lol
 
Thanks for all the comments, have someone coming Tuesday to quote, so will ask them to do all the water pressure tests etc, along with asking about what gas connections are coming in and whether ACV would require too many major changes. Opinion seems to be its overkill for what I need and could be costly, but never expected to be able to put run of the mill system in given what I probably need is some kind of high end domestic/light commercial solution with 4 showers 6 people and 5 basins. However havent got thousands.

Few suggestions about system boiler and open vented system, so will research these. My big attraction to the ACV was the fact that it took up no more than a 800 square footprint and would provide all I needed with very little space lost, same for the glow worm one. One cupboard (which adjoins outside wall).

Need to find a system that can go in same space on ground floor without affecting water pressure to loft when I finally run water up there.

At least a little better informed (before asking people for quotes and being charged for wobble danglers joined with sky hooks!) A little further research to do. So tar very much.
 
You don't need high end domestic you just need a decent unvented cylinder and the right person to fit it for you.

Where are you located?
 
Can anyone recommend a horizontal fast recovery, hi flow rate unvented cylinder looking for 300 litre + I think. Think this in loft eaves coupled with decent KW condensing energy efficient boiler might fix space and shower problem? (condensing for I think I can get scrappage and green deal giving me £670 off! price).

When I find one I think may be suitable in terms of performance, I often cant see a horizontal one.

Thanks
 
Have fitted a couple of RD horizontal cylinders and have no hesitation in recommending them.

A word of warning, let your plumber specify the size of cylinder you need because there is more to it than meets the eye and you don't want to have to spend this kind of money twice.
 
thanks will do, just getting ideas to discuss with chap coming on Tuesday to quote.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
timmyjane said:
thanks will do, just getting ideas to discuss at chap coming on Tuesday to quote.
Click to expand...

If you post you location there may be a member close to you that could help out and maybe give you a quote for your job
 
Sorry just getting used to terminology and heating/water systems and online forums, what do you mean RM.

Im in Bosham on South Coast between Havant and Chi, PO18
 
timmyjane said:
Sorry just getting used to terminology and heating/water systems and online forums, what do you mean RM.

Im in Bosham on South Coast between Havant and Chi, PO18
Click to expand...

RM Cylinders are a UK cylinder manufacturer.
 
Erm, not on the Water Front, near the train station and pub, want the extra showers to let out room/flatlet when done!
 
timmyjane said:
Problem. I want to convert my loft, huge cold water tank in loft and hot tank where I need to put stairs. I need 4 showers. Good water pressure to the house but not tested, comes out so forcefully in kitchen that the stop tap needed turning down a lot.

Current system not good enough for 2 showers.

A combi system I have seen seems to give a flow rate of 45 litres a minute at 60C, the ACV Heatmaster 85 Combi condensing boiler, it could go in a downstairs cupboard.

Anyone have this system in, or knows how much it is.

Are there any alternatives more widely available (worried about servicing), looked at Glow worm ultra power 100/170 sx, has a good flow rate of 36 litres a minute but at 35C, is there anything else out there, think the ACV may be very costly.

Advice very appreciated.


​
Click to expand...

please explain where you are going to get 45L for the hot water and as much for the cold water supply ?
 
SafeGasInstall said:
please explain where you are going to get 45L for the hot water and as much for the cold water supply ?
Click to expand...

Until I get tests done Tuesday regarding the incoming water pressure and flow rate I cant answer that, but as mentioned the water pressure coming in is so powerful (have to turn stop tap down or it blasts out) that I believe I have a good supply, no idea how many litres a minute that will turn out to be, be interesting on Tuesday when I find out, if its 20 or something then I need to find a solution.

Quite new to this area, but seems to me if I have an excellent supply coming in and I restrict that supply by putting in a boiler system that can only heat water and realease at 11 - 20 litres a minute (not the capability of the ACV with capacity of 46L utilising the water from the water already stored and heated), I have little chance of more than 2 showers working adequately at the same time.

If it means two systems, a great combi with hot water supply storage facility (meaning less instant heating time) or an unvented system with a pretty good boiler and rapid recovery heat system of some nature, i dont mind.

All I know at minute is conventional system is not working even though mains water pressure great, got water tanks all over the place taking up space and stopping me doing a loft conversion.

The ACV unit mentioned is being fitted in domestic applications (video on U Tube) so would presume even if 46l is slight overkill, better to have a system in place that has more capacity not less. Gas inlet connection required seems to be 3/4 for the device which (not an expert, but think is standard domestic supply size).

Truth is I think the ACV having looked at all advice, as nice as it may be, is probably overkill and too expensive for what I need. Non the less, I need solutions that will run at least 3 showers and a basin simultaneously and am researching those.

Any advice along meeting the solution (as not a plumber) welcome.
 
Remember the T.S.S. croppie suggests is 300 kilo's fully loaded.Check the load in your loft eaves etc.
 
Hi Timmyjane - your enquiry is a good one and driven by the need for space

Combis save householders loads of space esp in lofts - however
1. Combis only suit flats and small homes - 1x bog 3 beds
2. They go wrong
3. Are recommended by numpties who cannot design and fit a proper system
4. There should be a thread about this as we get many questions exactly like this
the answer is all the same

Do report back about what you have chosen to do as this forum thrives on question &
answer Centralheatking
timmyjane said:
Problem. I want to convert my loft, huge cold water tank in loft and hot tank where I need to put stairs. I need 4 showers. Good water pressure to the house but not tested, comes out so forcefully in kitchen that the stop tap needed turning down a lot.

Current system not good enough for 2 showers.

A combi system I have seen seems to give a flow rate of 45 litres a minute at 60C, the ACV Heatmaster 85 Combi condensing boiler, it could go in a downstairs cupboard.

Anyone have this system in, or knows how much it is.

Are there any alternatives more widely available (worried about servicing), looked at Glow worm ultra power 100/170 sx, has a good flow rate of 36 litres a minute but at 35C, is there anything else out there, think the ACV may be very costly.

Advice very appreciated.


​
Click to expand...
 
wetdrip said:
Remember the T.S.S. croppie suggests is 300 kilo's fully loaded.Check the load in your loft eaves etc.
Click to expand...

Already have large cold water tank up there, but dont know if loads are different in other parts of the loft.

Am interested in getting other quotes from appropriately registered members. In terms of quotes, for kind of installation I have in mind (wishing to meet building regs etc with anything I do) what registration would you advise I look for.

Wont just be the boiler change, but removing old system, rerouting pipework where necessary. Putting two toilets in connecting to close by 1ft away soil pipe (no connection currently in). At least one shower with no current connection in place nor water supply to room. Another shower where I may (depending on where stairs end up) be able to connect to current supply feeding the existing sink. Maybe a few extras.

Another question: -

Cost of decent cylinder (in loft) and decent boiler possibly ground floor probably will be around the 1.8k+ mark with installation cost additional.

Providing ACV 85tc could be connected to standard domestic supply for gas and water (enquiring with ACV re regs) with it being one compact unit would installation and connections be easier from plumbers point of view (and therefore install cost) likely to be far less? Would go in a place that adjoins outside wall for outlet for any necessary flues.

Still got some reseach to do on this one, if on ground floor would reaching the loft with water supply hinder performance, read a few things about not being able to put pumps on pressured unvented systems?


Thanks
 
Right in Rays back yard ! CHK
timmyjane said:
Sorry just getting used to terminology and heating/water systems and online forums, what do you mean RM.

Im in Bosham on South Coast between Havant and Chi, PO18
Click to expand...
 
Combi in this set up no way - but hey sorry Francy its you 1st post please introduce yourself and join our society please - you are really welcome . We are kittens really but watch out for CRoppie - he is industrial - thats what his MRs told me ! CHK

Not if the right combi is installed the right way[/QUOTE]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Give ACV a call, get rep to come and see you also get ideal or oso to give suggestions once ACV have given design. The 85 tc will do fine on 20mbar. Will possibly need upgrade on size if meter is a way off?
 
Your project is way beyond any cowboy outfit, and might defeat some one only set ups.

As you are 5 hours South of us I would contact Ray Stafford about who could handle this
contract that comes into his shops CHK
timmyjane said:
Already have large cold water tank up there, but dont know if loads are different in other parts of the loft.

Am interested in getting other quotes from appropriately registered members. In terms of quotes, for kind of installation I have in mind (wishing to meet building regs etc with anything I do) what registration would you advise I look for.

Wont just be the boiler change, but removing old system, rerouting pipework where necessary. Putting two toilets in connecting to close by 1ft away soil pipe (no connection currently in). At least one shower with no current connection in place nor water supply to room. Another shower where I may (depending on where stairs end up) be able to connect to current supply feeding the existing sink. Maybe a few extras.

Another question: -

Cost of decent cylinder (in loft) and decent boiler possibly ground floor probably will be around the 1.8k+ mark with installation cost additional.

Providing ACV 85tc could be connected to standard domestic supply for gas and water (enquiring with ACV re regs) with it being one compact unit would installation and connections be easier from plumbers point of view (and therefore install cost) likely to be far less? Would go in a place that adjoins outside wall for outlet for any necessary flues.

Still got some reseach to do on this one, if on ground floor would reaching the loft with water supply hinder performance, read a few things about not being able to put pumps on pressured unvented systems?


Thanks
Click to expand...
 
Timmyjane (Miss?)

As CHK inferred this is an interesting project and one you really, really need a good guy to do. Get a few quotes and come back to us with the proposals being made, we can give you our views bearing in mind we haven't had eyes on the job.

you couldn't do any worse than posting a thread in the 'I'm looking for a plumber / gas engineer' section of these forums remembering to include your location. [DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/im-looking-plumber-gas-engineer/"]I'm looking for a Plumber or Gas Engineer[/DLMURL]
 
Hi - the unit I initially enquired about is a combination unit in essence! but it does have a 170 litre water store so does have the facility to have 170 litres of heated water before I have to rely on the instant heat facility. It is also one of the most efficient boilers on the market as it condenses (reuses the waste heat from both water and central heating system). A tank in tank sytem meaning gas used and cost to heat therefore less I think. From all I have read it seems to have the capacity for a decent flow rate 46 litres a minute providing I have a good water pressure and inflow rate. It will also take up less space than a decent boiler and good capacity tank, with possibly less install cost if it can connect to domestic supply (gas pipe 5 ft away from where I may install it).

So is it a hybrid that comes up with a good solution to space problems, not sure, but not willing to just discount it as its classed as a 'combi'. Any combi without such a hot water store in my limited opinion so far would not work just based on flow rates quoted on standard ones. It seems to stand to reason if something quotes (as most standard combis do) it is able to heat and release water at between 10 and 20 litres a minute then it probably will not allow me to run the dishwasher in the morning, kids to be washing faces in sink me husband and lodger in the shower all at the same time in the morning without some kind of compromise.

So at the moment not discounting (what appears to be a good hybrid solution) as advice is clearly mixed on this one. Issue is potential price.

Thanks for advice so far, all been great.:vanish:
 
timmyjane said:
Hi - the unit I initially enquired about is a combination unit in essence! but it does have a 170 litre water store so does have the facility to have 170 litres of heated water before I have to rely on the instant heat facility. It is also one of the most efficient boilers on the market as it condenses (reuses the waste heat from both water and central heating system). A tank in tank sytem meaning gas used and cost to heat therefore less I think. From all I have read it seems to have the capacity for a decent flow rate 46 litres a minute providing I have a good water pressure and inflow rate. It will also take up less space than a decent boiler and good capacity tank, with possibly less install cost if it can connect to domestic supply (gas pipe 5 ft away from where I may install it).

So is it a hybrid that comes up with a good solution to space problems, not sure, but not willing to just discount it as its classed as a 'combi'. Any combi without such a hot water store in my limited opinion so far would not work just based on flow rates quoted on standard ones. It seems to stand to reason if something quotes (as most standard combis do) it is able to heat and release water at between 10 and 20 litres a minute then it probably will not allow me to run the dishwasher in the morning, kids to be washing faces in sink me husband and lodger in the shower all at the same time in the morning without some kind of compromise.

So at the moment not discounting (what appears to be a good hybrid solution) as advice is clearly mixed on this one. Issue is potential price.

Thanks for advice so far, all been great.:vanish:
Click to expand...

What is the boiler make & model?
 
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