central heating pump replacement

[fluidthegreat]

He pump has gone and needs replacing. It has a celsia tf110 230v-50hz. What grundfos would be replace this please. Ive seen grundfos ups 15-60 pump 96281473.

Thanks

 

[plumber0808]

I just googled it i think that's a 5m head pump. A 15/50 would do.

15/60 won't do any harm though.

 

[chris watkins]

You can not install this type of pump any more ! Under the euro pump directive you should use an energy efficient type such a the Alpha L & you would be mad not to the running costs are a lot lower than the old 15/60 ups

 

[Whn1]

You can still fit the ups chris, I rang up grundfos the other day and they said all the regs have done is stop them producing them, so sooner or later they'll run out and we won't have a choice.

 

[anz]

You can still fit the ups chris, I rang up grundfos the other day and they said all the regs have done is stop them producing them, so sooner or later they'll run out and we won't have a choice.

Your right, stocking up on them would be a good idea.

I have

 

[Roger Welton]

And you still will be able to buy them, just only as a spare part (until 2020)

 

[anz]

And you still will be able to buy them, just only as a spare part (until 2020)

Or until there are non left.

 

[Mike Jackson]

I'd be looking at fitting the equivalent Lowara though. Grundfos have got silly expensive.

 

[Dotty]

Reminds me. I've a review to write!

 

[fluidthegreat]

I'd be looking at fitting the equivalent Lowara though. Grundfos have got silly expensive.

Mike what lowara would be ok to use please. And what sort of price. I only know a little about plumming :0)

Thanks

 

[Dotty]

Mike what lowara would be ok to use please. And what sort of price. I only know a little about plumming :0)

Thanks

Unfortunately not cheap!

Lowara Ecocirc 25-6/130 Pump Variable Speed 6m Head 130mm - 605008250 - www.colglo.co.uk

 

[chris watkins]

Same old story. Ooooo something new, Oh NO, followed by - "how dare they try to stop me from using something I have been using for years & years". Then - "well I am not going to" !! "I will show'em I am going to stockpile them & carry on for ever & ever".

What spend a bit of time & try to find out if they are any good, cheaper to run & buy, No, never, that would be to much like hard work & involve reading.
No wonder manufacturer have to result in giving away free samples to get some of you old buggers to even take a second look !!!!!!!!
Get with the modern world daddy'o.

 

[Dotty]

Been using smart pumps in the commercial sector for ages now. Yes some can be tricky to set up, especially those with external inverters, but the money saved in the long run pays dividends!

 

[chris watkins]

Been using smart pumps in the commercial sector for ages now. Yes some can be tricky to set up, especially those with external inverters, but the money saved in the long run pays dividends!

When you say ages croppie you mean years & years, in fact over twenty years !!

 

[Dotty]

When you say ages croppie you mean years & years, in fact over twenty years !!

Giving our ages away Chris!

 

[Whyme]

grundfos all the way for me regardless of price, tbh im looking forward to the domestic catching up with whats been cracking off in the comercial sector (for a v long time).

 

[tamz]

You can not install this type of pump any more ! Under the euro pump directive you should use an energy efficient type such a the Alpha L & you would be mad not to the running costs are a lot lower than the old 15/60 ups

You can Chris if you can continue to get them. There is so much misinformation around it is little wonder people, even pros get confused.

In the real world Mrs Noheat wants it fixed.
She rings you for a price. You say sure a new A rated pump that will save you 20p a week on your leccie, supplied and fitted for £200
She rings the next guy who says no probs i'll fit you a pump (any pump, myson, screwfix shyte) for £150.
She takes the £150 offer and he got the job and made about £50 more than you would have at your £200 asking price. Her heating is working and she couldn't care less about 20p a week and if it breaks down again 2 years later such is life.
That is the reality i'm afraid, no matter what some bureaucrat says must be done to save the planet if indeed it really needs saving.
Devils advocate :smile:

 

[Roger Welton]

Sadly Tamz is (as always!) quite right

 

[chris watkins]

You can Chris if you can continue to get them. There is so much misinformation around it is little wonder people, even pros get confused.

In the real world Mrs Noheat wants it fixed.
She rings you for a price. You say sure a new A rated pump that will save you 20p a week on your leccie, supplied and fitted for £200
She rings the next guy who says no probs i'll fit you a pump (any pump, myson, screwfix shyte) for £150.
She takes the £150 offer and he got the job and made about £50 more than you would have at your £200 asking price. Her heating is working and she couldn't care less about 20p a week and if it breaks down again 2 years later such is life.
That is the reality i'm afraid, no matter what some bureaucrat says must be done to save the planet if indeed it really needs saving.
Devils advocate :smile:

All true I know tamz but more to them than just electrical savings if people would just spend the time & have a look.
Sometimes it not all about the money, sometime we should just try to do the right thing, as you well know.
China will supply copy of 15/50 I am sure & sell it cheaper, so how long do we want to keep fitting them for ? The race to the bottom is a quick & potentially devastating.

 

[fluidthegreat]

Im looking for a cheap replacement to get some hot water. Ive seen a flomasta on screwfix for £40 Flomasta Central Heating Pump | NoLinkingToThis would this be ok to replace the celsia multi head ip42 230-50? Thank for the help guys

 

[plumber0808]

Yes Looks like it will do the job

 

[joni os]

tamz you are so spot on it needs repeating every week

 

[chris watkins]

Giving our ages away Chris!

I think everyone knows I am an old bar-steward by now, Mr C

tamz you are so spot on it needs repeating every week

Sorry but what needs repeating ? & why every week.

 

[dancinplumba]

What tamz Said

 

[chris watkins]

You can Chris if you can continue to get them. There is so much misinformation around it is little wonder people, even pros get confused.

That is the reality i'm afraid, no matter what some bureaucrat says must be done to save the planet if indeed it really needs saving.
Devils advocate :smile:

So what did he say ?

I seem to remember the same sort of conversations taking place over old style (non condensing) gas & oil boilers & who is still installs them?
How about TRV's the list goes on, always ends up the same in the end the industry takes it onboard eventually there just has to be the bitching first, even when with a little investigation it is quite clear it is the right thing to do.
I suppose it is part of human nature that some just don't like change of any sort.

 

[TBServices]

So what did he say ?

I seem to remember the same sort of conversations taking place over old style (non condensing) gas & oil boilers & who is still installs them.
How about TRV's the list goes on, always ends up the same in the end the industry takes it onboard eventually there just has to be the bitching first, even when with a little investigation it is quite clear it is the right thing to do.
I suppose it is part of human nature that some just don't like change of any sort.

For good reason Chris. Early condensing boilers - rubbish, trvs - rubbish, and even if you get non rubbish ones, the customers don't know how to use them, modulating pumps are just another hunk of rubbish forced upon us by people who have no experience of their workings.

80 year old Agnes with 30 year old radiators and a ideal Mexico, doesn't want a a HE pump, and she won't benefit from it.

 

[chris watkins]

For good reason Chris. Early condensing boilers - rubbish, trvs - rubbish, and even if you get non rubbish ones, the customers don't know how to use them, modulating pumps are just another hunk of rubbish forced upon us by people who have no experience of their workings.

80 year old Agnes with 30 year old radiators and a ideal Mexico, doesn't want a a HE pump, and she won't benefit from it.

Oh great, working on that principle then I am sitting around my open log fire, in my great hall (did allow myself the luxury or a roof over my head) covered in soot cos em new fangled chimneys don't work anyway & I know of at least two that fell down after being built !!!!!
Start living in the future not the past. TB

 

[bewsh]

I'm guessing you'll still be able to get the old style pumps for combis though? I can't imagine the new energy efficient ones will fit in to most combis!

 

[tamz]

I'm not against the new pumps and have fitted them but common sense has to be used. When the old heads are phased out you can guarantee the majority won't be set right anyway. It is bad enough now when most out there can't read a pump graph and bung everything on speed 3 (usually causing system problems) just to be sure it works. You will probably find most Alphas will be set to CP2 just to be sure it works

I'm guessing you'll still be able to get the old style pumps for combis though? I can't imagine the new energy efficient ones will fit in to most combis!

You would fit one of the new UPS2 pumps. Same sized pump head with a lower wattage.

Btw i was out and swapped a pump head this morning. Bog std 15/50 replacement.

 

[joni os]

Selling a customer what he wants and he is happy, Telling a customer what he needs and he goes elsewhere.

 

[Ray Stafford]

In the real world Mrs Noheat wants it fixed.
She rings you for a price. You say sure a new A rated pump that will save you 20p a week on your leccie, supplied and fitted for £200
She rings the next guy who says no probs i'll fit you a pump (any pump, myson, screwfix shyte) for £150.
She takes the £150 offer and he got the job and made about £50 more than you would have at your £200 asking price. Her heating is working and she couldn't care less about 20p a week and if it breaks down again 2 years later such is life.
That is the reality i'm afraid, no matter what some bureaucrat says must be done to save the planet if indeed it really needs saving.
Devils advocate :smile:

So offer your customer 3 options:

A rated expensive branded pump @ £high price
A rated less expensive unbranded pump @ £mid price
Non A rated cheap pump @ £budget price

I bet most of them take the middle option.

We find that all the time - if we offer 2 products which do much the same job, the cheapest one sells most.

If we offer 3 products that do the same job, the middle-priced one will out-sell the other 2 put together.

 

[DirksPlumbing]

You will probably find most Alphas will be set to CP2 just to be sure it works

To cast that in numbers:
System x conventional pump 4.5kW/day
Alpha 2L CP2 1.5kW/day
Alpha 2L III 3kW/day

VPs can not get used in the system as causing lock out by overheating since the ABV does not open (fixed setting).

Now do the maths with your 20p/week.

 

[joni os]

Grundos Selectric 15-50 number 2 setting 70 W I'm with tamz on this one

 

[tamz]

To cast that in numbers:
System x conventional pump 4.5kW/day
Alpha 2L CP2 1.5kW/day
Alpha 2L III 3kW/day

VPs can not get used in the system as causing lock out by overheating since the ABV does not open (fixed setting).

Now do the maths with your 20p/week.

There must be a lot of hours in your day :wink:
A 15/50 draws between 40 and 90 watts /hr depending on how it is set. Speed 1 running 10 hrs a day 400w or speed 3, 900w. electric @15p/kwh is 6p/day(10hrs) on speed 1 or 13.5p on speed 3.

An Alpha draws between 5 and 30 odd watts depending on how it is set or is working so say on average for easy counting it is drawing 20w.

You are saving 3p/day (21p/wk so i wasn't far out at 20p) compared to a 15/50 set on speed 1 or 10.5p against one set at speed 3. Even if it constantly drew 10w (which it won't) the saving would only be 4.5p/day

4.5 years (or 1.5) to get your money back on the extra 50 quid the pump cost.
As you say they can't be fitted alongside an abv so add in the cost of stripping that out or fitting a thermostatic controlled one and your customer will be dead before they recovered their costs.

 

[DirksPlumbing]

The central heating system is shared and has it's own meter (single slot meter).
The reading includes boiler and controls. Continuous OTR is meant to set the flow temperature.

And it surely is not a 15/50.

Yes the pump does do long hours. In this case the saving is 3kW/day at 15p. The saving per month in this case (admittedly extreme) is somewhere around £13/month.