Building regs vs Gas Safe - arrgh

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Building regs vs Gas Safe - arrgh

Discuss Building regs vs Gas Safe - arrgh in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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caines

I'd appreciate your views/ thoughts/ advice on the following:

I had a new boiler fitted in 2008 and have the benchmark commissioning checklist completed and signed by the corgi registered plumber but corgi was never notified of the work so no commissioning certificate can be produced. The plumber was, but is no longer, Gas Safe registered and I can't get hold of him.

We were wrongly informed at the time that we did not need to have our work (garage conversion with new boiler) signed off by building control.

We are now trying to move and having a nightmare with building regs. I have been passed between building regs and gas safe so many time Im sick of speaking to them both.

The short of it is that the building control guy wants a boiler Commissioning Certificate before he can sign off the work from 2008. No other documents stating current safety status or even a recommissioning document will do (as its not a "certificate").

I understand from Gas Safe that a Commission Certificate can not be produced retrospectively.

So, is there any way of getting my "new" boiler signed off to comply with current building regs or do I just have to accept that as the Certificate can not be produced I can't get the building work signed off.

I'd appreciate your thoughts/ experiences.

Many thanks
Becky
 
Hi Becky,
Sounds like you're caught in red tape! What a pain!!!
People are so happy to tell you what you should do but not so helpful when telling you how you should do it! What do they expect you to do, rip out the new boiler and fit another for a piece of paper? Could be the only option I guess but an expensive one!

Good luck finding an answer ...
 
there is not any other way round it I am afraid caines ,I can change it for you and you get to offer of 6 years guarantee
 
have you contacted your local building control officer?
 
Ask bulding control if a CP12 certificate would do in place of what you're after. If it will you're looking at £50 not a couple of grand.

They might not go for it, but you might get lucky. Good luck.
 
Becky the only person who can sign off the installation is the installer! The only person who can register the installation with Gas Safe and Building Regs is the installer! Did you employ the guy or did the builder? Not that that helps coz you're still without the necessary paperwork! Could you sleep with the building regs bloke (said tongue in cheek) .... LOL

I feel for you honestly! It's one where Gas Safe should be there for you and not turning their back! If the installation ticks all the boxes they should be able to help you out. In stead they're only interested in finding the 'illegal' installer and gaining brownie points!

I hope you don't have to fork out for a new installation because of bureaucracy!!!!!!
 
O yes - building control man is the one who originally said they are numerous options for the 'documents' accepted but has since changed his mind and seems to now only want a commissioning cert. I don't know if he is being over picky??

CP12 - is that the Landlords Safety Cert? If so, they won't accept it....and Gas Safe won't either if property not rented out.

It seems that Gas Safe and Building Regs want to put the responsibility on each other...
 
:) LOL

diamondgas - Shame I didn't send this query a week ago to you. No one has said it that clearly!
The builder (now bust!) employed the plumber and I have emailed him and called him twice, but no answer. Will try again tomorrow and leave message with him.
I assumed there was not much point contacting him as not currently gsafe registered so can't do anything now anyway...

Annoying thing is it was legally installed as he was corgi and I have his signed benchmark list...he just forgot to send the bloody info off to corgi. Hmpf.

All because we want to move house. Very irritating. If thats the case, we just won't get the work signed off. Not sure what buyers will think of that.
 
This all seems ridiculous scenario just to move house. Between gas safe and build control they must come across this all the time where paperwork has been lost or forgotten etc. What have gas safe actually said for you to do in this scenario? Can you try and get contact number of your local gas safe inspector and explain to them this daft scenario . At least in that instance they can see if its all ticked in correct boxes and can advise what to do with build control.
 
End of the day Becky, if they like you're house they'll buy it! Offer them a years contract with B-gas or someone, to cover the inconvenience if they kick up a fuss! I'm sure the rest of the extension conforms to the necessary regulations.
 
sorry youre having trouble with this one becky we all have perceptions and expiences but hard and fast rules are thin on the ground my own exp of this was a boiler cant be re-commissioned the HSE would like any work such as youre,s brought within gsr domain but GSR who they appointed maybe dont share that view perhaps you could tell building control you are just a normal person without in depth knowoledge of things there experts at Flatter the gods of building control and ask them how they would resolve this but point out re-commissioning isnt an option also suggest HSE are on your side, you kind of have to understand they see a lot of dangerous rubbish installs and it makes them cynical
 
If you can find someone willing to do it, pay them to take it off the wall fit it and commision it and fill in the paperwork with todays date and send it away.
A ridiculous situation for the sake of a paper trail but one that must be very common. The rules are in place to (try to) stop non registered persons fitting gas appliances.
 
GSR sent me an email once and it included the phrase "who would want to do this sort of work" or something along those lines i would swerve it
 
Whether the like it or not it happens and is legal.

Btw i wouldn't touch it with a stick and neither would most.
 
Why can't a Gas Safe Registered engineer re-commision it? Just as they would do if it was being moved.
If a boiler is moved within the same house it does not need to be registered but a used boiler could be moved to a new house (If it is A rated) and then it would have to be registered as well. So "old" boilers can get registered twice.
Of course it is goingto cost, but not as much as getting a new boiler.
 
Thanks for all the thoughts guys.

From what I understand from gas safe it can be re-commissioned but that can't produce the super special gold plated certificate my building guy is after to tick his box.

I see these things are in place to protect people like me from the dodgy people out there, but I just hoped a bit of common sense etc would come into it (as my guy was clearly corgi'd).

Theres no room for good ol' honest common sense in this american style sueing society.
 
Mrs Tara Plumbi said:
Why can't a Gas Safe Registered engineer re-commision it? Just as they would do if it was being moved.
If a boiler is moved within the same house it does not need to be registered but a used boiler could be moved to a new house (If it is A rated) and then it would have to be registered as well. So "old" boilers can get registered twice.
Of course it is goingto cost, but not as much as getting a new boiler.
Click to expand...

Well if you put it that way you could even get someone to not even remove and refit it but say they did , pocket the money and tick all the boxes needed for the building regs bloke! You up for it Mrs Tara Plumbi? Personally I consider it an admirable proposition considering the circumstances .. :)

Why don't gasSafe cotton on to a winner here? "The big boy's save the day" scenario! Check out the 'none registered installations', charge the customer for the privilege, and Robert is your mothers brother!!!
 
caines said:
CP12 - is that the Landlords Safety Cert? If so, they won't accept it....and Gas Safe won't either if property not rented out.
Click to expand...


Yes Becky a CP12 is a landlords/Home owners cert'.

Gas Safe probably won't like this as it harks back to Corgi documentation, and they're more interested in their own agenda.

I do however have one more idea!

I had to get an old box down from the wardbrobe so I hope you're grateful!! In the box was some old books of CP1 certificates. Otherwise known as 'Gas Safety Records'.

If I were in your shoes, I would risk getting one of these done for your install. (Lets hope the install is ok and it passes). Then just present this to the bloke from Building Control and confidently say:

'We've had the install checked out, it passes all saftey checks. Here's the certificate, I hope this brings the matter to a close'. Then just stay quiet and hope he goes with it.

Of course this is just a theory....but I would have a go. Taking the boiler off the wall and then putting it straight back on is bloody mindless. Who's benefitting from that? No reputable installer is going to thank you for that job.

On the flip side of all this, I have been asked to register (as we all do) other peoples work. I always refuse to do so. No ifs or buts. NO WAY. I was called to a boiler installed by someone else a couple of months ago. A DIY install. They thought they'd use the flue from their old boiler to save a few quid. Luckilly they couldn't get the boiler to light, because had it, they'd be pushing up daisy's.

Why it popped in my head is that they wanted me to register it so they could have it 'repaired' in its warranty period. After consulting with Gas Safe, I made the boiler safe, and fitted the right flue, but no I didn't register it.
 
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stevetheplumber said:
were going to see a lot of this as most of the gsr fitters i know dont register their installs
Click to expand...

Well look what registering via Corgi did for you....lost you future servicing work as they called them on your behalf and poached the work. Thanks Corgi.
 
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