Boiler possibly piped up wrong???

[CXR100]

went to a job today , lady claim she never had hot water from the boiler since it was fitted (worcester system boiler and a tank) and that she always had to have the immersion switched on! its a worcester bosch system boiler, from the boiler workingleft to right there is a condensate pipe , heating flow to cylinder and rads with no kind of 2 port valve to be seen on , then a gap (possibly the hot outlet or cold inlet) then the gas , then the connection from the return of the cylinder , then another connection for the return of the radiators,then the pressure relief, is this the way they are normaly plumbed in?? is there some sort of 3 port valve or something in the boiler? so its 1 flow coming out and 2 seperate returns going back in . didnt take the cover off as i am not gsr under the company i work for, i only had a quick look as i was fixing a leak under the bath! thanks

 

[Simon F]

counting the pipes you listed I got to seven, that's a combi boiler??
why has she put up with it?

 

[chris watkins]

Not a great fan of Worcester's but they do use to produce a system boiler with a built-in diverter so that you get separate F & R's to cylinder & to heating. Last one I looked at run up 3 stories to the top floor cylinder, couldn't see the point myself

 

[CXR100]

yes thats what i was thinking as well , but the cylynder return is connected up to the cold inlet or the hot outlet then isnt it? i just thought maby there was a kind of 3 port valve or something inside? because the worcester timer on the boiler has heating and a hot water selection!! i dont have a clue to be honest! i would have complained when it was put in, she told me i was the 6th plumber to look at it, i didnt want to go too far deep into it as i was only there fixing the leak under the bath, one plumber told her she needed a new boiler!!!! that one is only 3 yrs old!! another told her it was wired in wrong ect ect !!!!

 

[cookey]

Ask to take a look at the manual and also get a look at the benchmark. If a registered engineer fitted the unit it wouldn't be piped wrong bUt it will also give you and the customer all the info that you are looking for. Part of the benchmark is the handover including the documentation.

 

[stevebush]

hi, im fitting a worcester 30cdi system boiler with diverter in-side boiler, the copper pipe work should be (from left) radiator flow 22mm, cylinder flow 15mm, gas 22mm, cylinder return 15mm, radiator return 22mm, it will also need the plug in programmer, will not work with remote time clock if internal diverter valve used, sounds very wrong, i have not fitted the smaller models so may be different set up, but unlikley. if it doesnt have internal diverter then you have an extra pipe, and would need external zone valves which you say you cant find, the internal diverter kit comes with the two pre bent copper tails which need to be fitted to boiler before hanging it, the plugs need to be removed from block & tails inserted, be hard not to realize you need to pipe both up & change code plug on MCB, not something you can get wrong unless you dont know what your doing, i would advise the customer to book a visit from worcester, but i suspect a friend of a friend fitted it & she doesnt want to cause a fuss, see it quite a bit lately, hope that helps a bit ...steve

 

[stevebush]

even with seven pipes, it may still be system boiler, with internal diverter used you end up with seven pipes out of it, looks like combi, but not, catches my electrician out all the time, thinks hes got a easy wire up then realizes its not so easy, makes me smile every time,

 

[CXR100]

thanks steve, could it be something like he forgot to plug in the plug on the mcb? there is an extra return, but there is no extra flow, it is piped in 15mm , but the flow tees off the flow to the radiator. i thought if it was one with a diverter valve that it could be stuck on the heating side, i will inform my boss tommorow anyway , thanks all for the help , i will update the situation if i hear anything further. i have don my gas exams in collage last year, but not registered with gas safe, was i right in not taking the cover off and having a look?

 

[tamz]

Sounds like a 24i system boiler with a diverter valve kit.
Here are the instructions for the kit.

http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/cache/file/89/diverter-valve-instructions.pdf

 

[CXR100]

Optional CDi system diverter valve kit - Worcester, Bosch Group UK installer site is this the one?

 

[stevetheplumber]

i think the op was saying theres a gap where the hot and cold would be if it was a combi assuming that theres a mutitude of things could be wrong from piping to wiring motorised valves are probably near the cylinder

 

[tamz]

Optional CDi system diverter valve kit - Worcester, Bosch Group UK installer site is this the one?

No that is the one for a CDi. It has another connection.

 

[CXR100]

this is a greenstar 25 i think if i remember a mkIII one

 

[tamz]

The 25 is a combi

 

[AlexGas]

i have don my gas exams in collage last year, but not registered with gas safe, was i right in not taking the cover off and having a look?

You've done good, keep safe!

 

[CXR100]

might be a 24! ive got it down in the diary in the van, il go have a look in a minuet!

 

[chris watkins]

Sounds like a 24i system boiler with a diverter valve kit.
Here are the instructions for the kit.

http://www.worcester-bosch.co.uk/cache/file/89/diverter-valve-instructions.pdf

Had a quick look but can't see, I assume the diverter is on the returns in the boiler ? With only a 15mm circuit on the HW the reheat times must be effected & you have to drag a switching pair down to the boiler from the cylinder ? Still seems like a silly idea aimed at installers who cant do an S or Y, What do you recon Tamz or have I dropped one cos you install them all the time? LOL

 

[vern]

Steve further up the thread is correct....needs the following to work
pipes fitted in kit DHW return is piped to jig where cold mains would be on combi version
WB TIMER either DT 20 wired or wireless or DT 10
Needs code plug that comes with div valve fitted on PCB
Needs cylinder stat wiring back to PCB! (Bet this is the fault)
DHW RET is piped back in 15 mm (naturally balances system)
If wired and fitted as above it can do mid position also depending on timer and stats calling positions

Easy give her my number lol

 

[tamz]

Had a quick look but can't see, I assume the diverter is on the returns in the boiler ? With only a 15mm circuit on the HW the reheat times must be effected & you have to drag a switching pair down to the boiler from the cylinder ? Still seems like a silly idea aimed at installers who cant do an S or Y, What do you recon Tamz or have I dropped one cos you install them all the time? LOL

I don't fit them Chris. I don't particularly like the worcseter set up. It is better suited if the system is weather comped.
The system boiler is basically a combi with a few bits missing. Using the kit turns it into a W plan using the built in diverter. The half inch return balances nothing because it is a hot water priority where you want the fastest reheat times but that is the way the boiler is built.
Suits some people as it is easier to fit and a bit neater but not any cheaper or easier.
Ideal for weather comp on some boilers like Viessmann which allow the temp for the hot water to be higher.

 

[chris watkins]

I don't fit them Chris. I don't particularly like the worcseter set up. It is better suited if the system is weather comped.
The system boiler is basically a combi with a few bits missing. Using the kit turns it into a W plan using the built in diverter. The half inch return balances nothing because it is a hot water priority where you want the fastest reheat times but that is the way the boiler is built.
Suits some people as it is easier to fit and a bit neater but not any cheaper or easier.
Ideal for weather comp on some boilers like Viessmann which allow the temp for the hot water to be higher.

As you say makes the use of WC easer & with a diverter rather than the mid the HW production not so bad. So you not a fan of Worcester's either difficult to work on. Pleased with my Viessmann 100 (so far) but we are fitting a lot (for us) of Ideals again no problems so far.

 

[CXR100]

VERN you cold be right! there was no cylynder stat fitted as far as i could see, but there was a dt20 programer fitted to the boiler! am i allowed to fit a cylynder stat to the pcb?

 

[vern]

VERN you cold be right! there was no cylynder stat fitted as far as i could see, but there was a dt20 programer fitted to the boiler! am i allowed to fit a cylynder stat to the pcb?

No! if your not GSR as you have to remove the boiler case to do this etc

 

[tamz]

Of course you are allowed to fit one. How many sparks do you know who have a gas ticket.
There is a TB about it if you look hard enough.
Its all about common sense.
If you don't have one bridge it out until you do.

Edit
Don't or they won't have heating. Get a stat.

 

[tamz]

As you say makes the use of WC easer & with a diverter rather than the mid the HW production not so bad. So you not a fan of Worcester's either difficult to work on. Pleased with my Viessmann 100 (so far) but we are fitting a lot (for us) of Ideals again no problems so far.

I fit quite a lot of worcesters Chris.
Best boiler i've found for for upward piping. Sometimes they just sell themselves so i won't argue.