advice please

[plumbdoctor]

went to a job today new boiler installed did a tightness test 2mbar drop over about 5mins lol im a bit worried about it cos only one esisting appliance and pipework is a short run all in copper ? what would you guys do and yes i am gsr i hate any drops on gas

 

[Rickster123]

If its a short run and in copper could you not try and trace it? Did you isolate the boiler?

 

[Thoggy]

I would isolate the other appliance, test again if it passes you no its that even though you can leave up to 4mbar drop on existing I don't like leaving it with any.

 

[BLOD]

don't understand why your testing it for 5 mins ?

 

[Thoggy]

I think he was bit paranoid so let the test run maybe to be sure of drop?

 

[Koogatubac]

I had a similar scenario, gas line all in the wall on a new build, had a drop of 0.5 mbar over the test period. Isolated what i could and could find anything. Sprayed all joints, no bubbles...

Was a u6 meter, permissable drop 4mb, couldnt smell gas either. I recorded it in my notes after i tested it 6 times and tested it on another u guage with the regin fluid, could be my eyes even..

 

[neily01]

small installs can be the worst! just touching the pipes with warm hands while on test can make the gauge dance about. ensure the carcase is correct and sound and that any drop is on appliances. but like you hate any drop even if permissable , find out where it is and rectify!

 

[glenno1]

Like said before isolate other appliance and re-test,then isolate boiler to see if it is the pipe work

 

[Koogatubac]

What if you cant isolate the other appliance, say the hob, how would you know if its the hob or the pipework then?

 

[Dotty]

How long was your stabilisation?

 

[heliotrope]

What if you cant isolate the other appliance, say the hob, how would you know if its the hob or the pipework then?

I have had the situation in the past when an appliance cannot be isolated.

Cut the pipe and cap it. Test and reconnect pipe when test completed.

Takes a bit of time but is thorough.

 

[Koogatubac]

I have had the situation in the past when an appliance cannot be isolated.

Cut the pipe and cap it. Test and reconnect pipe when test completed.

Takes a bit of time but is thorough.

If its only a hob and a boiler? Boilers easy to isolate but i dont think the custard who normally watches me literally all the time lol sure they wont like me taking their full cupboards and oven out to cap their pipework.

Hobs should be made with a iso valve that you can turn off lol

 

[glenno1]

Agree with above or spray leak detecter on hob connections or use sniffer in the area (Did i pass koogatubac)

 

[Koogatubac]

You always pass glenn XD

Yeah i should of used my gas sniffer on my new flue gas analyser. Im still getting to grips on all the features it has!

What i dont agree with gas is all the permissable drops. 4mb on a u6! C'mon thats crazy!!

 

[AWheating]

ask the customer if they want you to trace the leak as its extra work with extra costs.

 

[Koogatubac]

Mine was a service.
I asked them if they wanted me to do a tightness test (was for a mate so did it for free) opened a can of worms! Searched and tested more than 4 times to make sure, found a 0.5mb drop. Couldnt smell gas and sprayed EVERY visable joint and gas pipe i saw!

Anyway did some tests at meter, moved to boiler, a wire must of caught the boiler casing and i got a spark. Got no electric to the boiler. Ended up being inside the PCB small fuse.
Raced to merchants through busy town center and paid £2 for a set of fuses because wont let me have one lol
Raced back to the job. Replaced it and got power to boiler. Finished service, got FGA Readings at the end, did all the paperwork and stabled all my copies inc all the tests i did. Took me 2hrs 30mins which should of took max 1hour. Got paid £41 lol

Fed up and the other word was a under statement

 

[snowhead]

Was the 2mbar drop before or after you fitted the boiler?

 

[kirkgas]

How much has actually leaks out in a year if you have a 4mb drop over 2 minutes ?

 

[tamz]

Here is what i had today.
Doing a boiler swap, drop test 1st thing before i start 1 1/2mb drop. Swap the boiler retest still 1 1/2mb drop. Ask customer if she has ever smelt gas anywhere, "no", write it down, inform the customer she has a small leak within tolerances, get them to sign a bit paper, collect the cash and leave.

If i start isolating appliances and still have a drop, i know for sure the drop is on the pipework which i can't leave. I then have a situation where either i work for free finding it (which could take a couple of hours) or explaining if she doesn't pay me i'm cutting her off which i assure you in 99% of cases won't be appreciated.
Start searching and you may open a can of worms.
You are allowed 4mb (with no smell of gas) so note it down and pass the responsibility to the customer.

Btw: If the boiler i swapped was the only appliance in the house i would have had to find the leak as i wouldn't be allowed any drop.

 

[plumbdoctor]

hi guys thanks for your replies its a u6 metre and i was testing i for a longer period cos i was not happy with it, only shows about 0.5-1mbar on a water u gauge tested it with my anton its about 1.5 over the 2mins ? I have even down a tightness test at the appliance you know the old school way waiting for boiler lockout and then mini tt no leak, im going to have to investigate i suppose even though 2mbar in 2 mins is a pass with boiler connected

 

[tamz]

How much has actually leaks out in a year if you have a 4mb drop over 2 minutes ?

10.3368m³

(assuming a pipe volume of 0.01m³)

 

[mike-c]

I reckon we are all freakin Masochists. We all keep on working with Gas when we all know it is a nightmare and the so called powers that be change the goalposts every year or when it suits them. Personally to me there should be no drops cos the possible bang at the end of it could be a bit more than deafening but hey ho that is the rules. I would gladly stop working with gas tomorrow but such is the nature of this plumbing/heating beast that the job just has to be done.

p.s. I would not change this job for the world. Bring on the bang. Lol.

 

[neily01]

the drop allowance is only for appliances not pipework. did a l/lords for a customer 1.5 mb drop, isolated all appliances still dropping. start deciding how to break the system down into sections for test, found a 15mm elbow hidden behind the kitchen carcase all green never been soldered!! a big local firm had been putting tickets on it for years and done original install. amazing how a bit of flux can hold on test.

 

[mikeygas]

As it's a Landlords Cert a TT is not mandatory, so the Big local firm have probably never carried out a TT when they've done the ticket every year.

 

[GrahamM]

Now, been away for a bit and just noticed this post.

I truly believe some people require re-training in the basics here. Or maybe it is I that require the training.

You carry out a standard TT all (ie. appliances connected, cooker hood up) and have a 2 mbar drop with no smell of gas. It is extremely unlikely this will ever grow to an explosive concentration so this is permitted under the rules/regs. Note on paperwork, walk away.

You then decide (needlessly) to take it amongst yourself to isolate all appliances and re-test. Low and behold you still have the 2 mbar drop.
You are then in effect testing the carcase only, which you are permitted a drop of 0 (zero) mbar. You have now opened the can of worms! You MUST now trace and repair this leak. If that means demolishing the customers house, so be it.

To walk away from this knowing you have a 2 mbar drop with appliances isolated is in effect you walking away from a gas leak on the carcase. ie. an immediately dangerous situation.

If someone would like to correct my training/knowledge on this, all advice welcome.

 

[Meterman1]

Hi..Meterman1 here.. Ive been a member for a few months now & I have been reading the threads & not really putting my 2 Pence worth Inn.. But I Have to agree with GrahamM reply In Relation To leaving permisable drops.. after undertaking any Gas Works on behalf of all our customers / Clients Etc.
Im being 100% Honest & with any Luck the All the Engineers who are New To This Industry (we all have been there).
Please be Aware .This Industry can turn & Bite you on the Arse If you aint Carefull .You will be the One going to Jail.No One Else.

A) Remmember if you leave a permisable drop say 2mbr after say altering the carcuss. You informed the customer of this upon starting works -& when Complete jOB...You will leave .30 Mins Later shes Reporting a Gas Leak To the E.S.P , & These guys dont give a *T*SS .These Guys will RIDDOR YOU & If the worst happened .& you stand infront of the Beak.The ESP TSE Overides a GSR Engineer & the Judge will be on-side the ESP

B) 2 Mbr Drop within a confined Space wont take long to Reach the LEL 5 % >UEL 15 %---This is Big Bang Zone to which the ESP TSE. has to work within Our Houses to Protect Life & Property Including his Own ..( Sorry to go on but I thought I needed to say this

Meterman1

 

[neily01]

if theres a drop of any sorts im not happy unless i can explain/understand/trace it cant be too safe with gas, who knows when a small leak can become a bigger leak. in the wrong space in the right circumstances it could be messey. lucky in some ways i work for a small firm who like to do things as well as possible. like they tell you at college the regs are a bare minium requirement you can always do more, i have too be able to sleep sound knowing i have done my best. some of the so called installers i was at college with i wouldnt let near an appliance x