Replacing stopcock, which size

[1animal1]

Cheers Shaun, seems like you've given me a real credible alternative here.... Thanks.

I think the next step is to get this pressure checked first and foremost....

From reading, it seems I may still need this 22mm feed?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Cheers Shaun, seems like you've given me a real credible alternative here.. Thanks.

I think the next step is to get this pressure checked first and foremost..

From reading, it seems I may still need this 22mm feed?

its best so just come straight out of the 20mm alk with a 20-22mm stop tap

 

[1animal1]

Excellent.... I'll try and source one. Should I bother my plumber now for just a pressure check given my 26/30 LPM readings?

Also... Should I direct all 15mm feeds to the various colds to where the boiler sits for post boiler balancing, or am I ok spurring off the 22 on the way to the boiler... Guessing the first suggestion so as not to reduce pressure to the new boiler

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I would to check, no harm in double checking also get the pressure static (no outlets open) and dynamic (one outlet open)

And yes 22mm straight to the boiler

 

[king of pipes]

Combi boilers have improved alot another option is this one from Alpha innovations i recently went on a training day and was impressed with its output they had a working model there supplying 4 outlets at the same time , someone on here will shoot me down but personally i would give one of these units serious consideration , you can have a immersion heater added in the model with seperate storage and if it could be installed central to you property it would save on water useage.cheers kop

 

[1animal1]

Opened a right can of worms here

Thanks kop. I'll certainly have a look at that.... My thinking is now cost orientated. Can I get two digital power showers going through a boiler with minimal heat change, integrate 2 CH rings with a nest on each, with availability to add one wet floor ring... The contingency of an immersion would be a bonus given the almost inevitable circumstance of the boiler going down at some point.

Worth pointing out that one power shower has a 3 metre minimal drop on 32mm pipework (couldn't get it any lower without major work due to stack location). So the flow doesn't need to be 30 LPM (obvious extreme). Also the climb to the furthest shower is probably 10 metres into the loft where it will connect to a digital mixer

The other power shower will be over a bath with what will be a 40mm waste if needed

Do any of these requirements rule any particular system out?

 

[1animal1]

For this joint, the 20mm/22mm stops are none existent as expected. Think I'm going to have to go up with a Philmac coupler, into a 22mm bend, then run a tap after that....

I love a challenge

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Plasson 7110 Reducing Coupler 20mm x 25mm | Travis Perkins

Plasson Adaptors for Copper Pipe 22mm x 25mm | Travis Perkins

You could do it that way and then out in 22mm

 

[1animal1]

I could, but with the space I have, it would be a struggle.... With the Philmac I can get the piece to fit on the pipe, the coupler being 132mm tall (only question is how much mdpe I need to fit into it), 22mm bend, then the tap after that... Otherwise I'll have to site the tap further away into the garage. Least amount of connections and all that....

The bend is inevitable I'm afraid

Or 20mm mdpe stopcock, 20mm bend onto the Philmac... How do these plastic stop cocks fair for longevity? Compared to say a peglar brass 22mm?

 

[1animal1]

I've just checked and my waste is 40mm to the shower...so I should be a good for a decent flow rate

 

[Gasinspect]

One plumber I work with insists on upgrading to 22mm on mains pipe at least as far as boiler and kitchen, reckons it improves performance of showers etc when mains fed. And as you say, megaflo needs 22mm.

 

[1animal1]

Thanks gas

This will be going to the boiler. My plumber also suggested 22mm hot upstairs to both showers for that very reason, which I've laid in wait...

I've decided to relocate the stop tap in the garage, couple metres into the house and much easier to get to. Assume no issues in resiting this?

Just need to work out how to turn the outside main off. Found the meter grate with a plastic tap like thing next to it. Seems to just turn on a spindle?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Any chance of a pic of the meter and said tap ?

And no problem other than digging up and moving the stop tap

 

[Gasinspect]

Yes, I was thinking of an accumulator, that would help if someone ran a tap, shower, flushed the loo, or used washing machine at the same time as you were trying to have a shower. Replace 15mm pipes with 22 would ensure no restriction to flow. Worth a try.

 

[1animal1]

Fraid not Shaun, not yet anyway... Just got on my sun lounger . I'll post one a week tomorrow

Stop tap currently comes up at side of downstairs waste toilet. So going to run 22mm into garage and mount a tap in there.

Cheers gas, Shaun had previously mentioned accumulator. That's now my primary choice with his recommended boiler, the Vaillant. Especially since seeing the lovely touch screen it comes equipped with.... Will probably save me buying two nest units for my duel circuits

 

[1animal1]

Actually on reflection, I probably can't run duel circuits off the Viessmann (not Valliant)... I presume?

See below for picture of similar valve to mine

 

[FG28]

Actually on reflection, I probably can't run duel circuits off the Viessmann (not Valliant). I presume?

See below for picture of similar valve to mine

View attachment 30666

Just caught the end of this and only read the first page , hi flow combi could be the one instead of the unvented system ,, . 50l stored hot for when 2 outlets being used ,? May of already been said ,. Good luck

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Actually on reflection, I probably can't run duel circuits off the Viessmann (not Valliant). I presume?

See below for picture of similar valve to mine

View attachment 30666

Dual circuits

And just turn the tap off (like a normal stop tap)

 

[1animal1]

Dual CH, upstairs and down. I was going to run with two nests, one hooked to hot water... All via three 2way valves

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Do you want them to be controlled from your phone or just stnd zones ?

 

[1animal1]

Ideally by phone and Amazon echo... Which I know is the main complication here. Just trying to automate

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Then you would need something like as you say hive/nest etc

 

[1animal1]

I originally looked at hive.. it looks really good. I just think the nest is slightly more pleasing on the eye and more scalable with Google.... Nice tends to play to its own products from what I've seen.

What's your thoughts on them?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

TBH it's what fits your needs and eco system

There all about the same, some will work with different software some won't

 

[1animal1]

Without wanting to start a further thread...

Do you gents happen to know much about hot water loops? In regards to hot water reaching its destination faster and so using less water, wasting less of the cold in the loop that you'd ordinarily use in a normal hot water branch off.

I've done a bit of reading and can see that some countries use this a lot, especially where they suffer droughts. I'm obviously thinking of the hot water wait time, but like the idea of water save too.

As I'm fitting this new water main in the house, terminating at the new boiler site. I'm wondering if I should tap into the downstairs hot water to create a ring - I've already ran a new feed for upstairs - when that gets plumbed into the new boiler, we'll have the option to create a ring.

The reason I ask this is because I have read about some rings that feed the surplus cold water back into the tank for reheating which sounds a bit more complicated than what I am suggesting.

Thoughts?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You mean a secondary return

If it's a big house with a long hot draw off run then yes you need to fit one

Water regs say anything more than 30 seconds is a waste of water and need a secondary return fitting

 

[1animal1]

Thanks Shaun, so that in its basic form is another access point to the ring. Simple as that...

Currently the hot water tank is located on the first floor, therefore there's a simple drop to downstairs and branches to upstairs. Guessing there's no complication in how the ring is formed.

I don't think the house is that big tbf. It's a medium sized 4 bed... But seeing as I'll have access to the pipework, figure it's worth hitting

 

[ShaunCorbs]

You need a check valve and a bronze pump

 

[Scott_D]

You can't use most push fit pipe

 

[1animal1]

Thanks Shaun.... That diagram is for vented, do i defo need the bronze pump on boiler/accumulator or unvented set ups?

Scott, I'm using speedfit on copper.... Are you saying that's not suitable?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes both the same the only thing that isn't on there is a check valve Normally fitted between the cylinder and bronze pump

And that's fine just can't use plastic pipe

Make sure it's well insulated

 

[1animal1]

No probs... Is it worth bothering do you think, would the hot water coming through be that noticeable in a house this size? I'm fine adding the pipework but given the cost of the pump and added complexity.

The runs are mostly in the insulated garage. I've used the thickest foam I can get away with for the 22. Going to have to source some thinner for the 15mm due to my brackets restricting.

Quite involving this plumbing lark! Been at it all day trying to do as much as possible, getting access, laying pipes etc before having to turn the mains off and drain the Ch. 600mm to get through the garage wall! Massive pita

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That's upto you tbh

And it would of been easier on you if you had a plumber (who is gas safe and G3 registered) helping you

 

[1animal1]

It definitely would. Only reason I haven't is, my trusted chap is always so busy, I'm always conscious of this so try not to trouble him unless I absolutely need to

Plus I enjoy it... There's a challenge around every corner!

 

[1animal1]

Morning chaps - Success! I have managed to replace the cold water main, hot next followed by the CH repiping.

Question - As I will be looking at a complete new system in Jan-April time - firstly, do new boilers tend to have their own magnetic and solid filtration?

My thinking at the moment is this - to fit either a second hand Magna to the 22mm pipework to cleanse the system prior to the new one being fitted.

The dilemma is, do i spend £40 on one of the few second hand ones on ebay as a make doo (best option if new boiler comes with one) or go and buy a new 22mm Magna, or perhaps the Magna pro 2 if it's worth the extra? assuming it will get used on the new system.

Thoughts please

 

[ShaunCorbs]

No they don't

Best option is both but not second hand

Adey pro 2 would be the best one

 

[1animal1]

Thanks Shaun! much appreciated as always.

Gathering the Adey 2 is worth the extra, what's the difference? - do they lose their effectiveness with age? and whats the service/shelf life of them?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes just overall better design

 

[1animal1]

Any view on other brands like Trappex?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Cheap and nasty

Either adey or spirotech

 

[1animal1]

I was just looking for best price and stumbled upon a thread from years ago....

Seems best I can see atm is £82 - amazing how some places are wanting £120 for the same item!

This won't be fitted optimally for the moment - I can't get it near the current boiler so it will be on the ground floor pipework - current system being upstairs fed - gather any crap from upstairs will always work its way downstairs with gravity and be swallowed up in this...

 

[1animal1]

is this the Spirotech equiv? They look very well made!

Spirotrap MB3 Dirt Separator 22mm *Special Offers*

or this which i presume is the same but with air remover...

Spirocombi Horizontal Air & Dirt Separator Brass 22mm

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yea that's made by them

 

[1animal1]

How do they work in comparison to the Magnaclean's - they don't seem to be magnet based, perhaps swirl pot style filter?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

How do they work in comparison to the Magnaclean's - they don't seem to be magnet based, perhaps swirl pot style filter?

External magnet

Black shroud

 

[1animal1]

Thanks Shaun...

Last question on this - which would you fit on your own system?

Adey pro 2
Spirotrap
Spirocombi

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Adey pro 2

But there all about the same

 

[1animal1]

Update... I only had one option I could go for given its first location will be beneath the floor, and the flow on the return will be coming in from the top assuming the Adey or spirocombi due to them having to be upright . So I went with the MB3 separator in the end... Spoke with Spirotech prior to ordering for confidence in the filter material and the getting the right option. I had gone to them with the idea to buy the spirocombi sludge and air remover, but the flow wasn't in the right direction for my situation and the lady kindly pointed out that it wouldn't work optimally anyway... As a proper industrial set up by comparison would have the sludge remover on the return and the air remover on the flow... so I've managed to get the MB3 and RV2 for the price of the combi model @£115.... One place had this package, the rest all wanted close to £150 for both! Job well done I think...

Don't make me cry with a decent trade cost please

 

[Scott_D]

Where from?

 

[1animal1]

Company called Viessmann Direct... Found it purely by chance. Even the eBay specials wanted £65 for the MB3's... The RV's were even more everywhere I looked