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Please help - have i been ripped off?

Discuss Please help - have i been ripped off? in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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Hi. My house, in north London, has a Sime Superior 100 boiler. Last year I noticed the water pressure was slowly dropping (in all the taps, and the shower), so at the start of December I got a plumber out, who said we needed a new pressure valve for the boiler. I was told the new valve was about £200 ish, and I was charged £498 (inc vat) in total for the work. The plumber came out twice; firstly to diagnose the problem, which he did very quickly, and secondly to bring and fit the new part. I assumed the fitting was complex, but he fitted the part really quickly, in 30-45 minutes, or so. I thought the cost seemed excessive, especially when i saw how quickly it was fitted. Please could someone tell me if I've paid a far price, or if I've been ripped off?! Annoyingly, only a month later, the boiler has stopped working. So my second question is, can I make the plumber come back again and fix it? Thank you. Vic
 
Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. I started to make some progress with this matter at the end of last week, and I wanted to come back with a decent update. So, first of all, thank you for everyone who helped with this, and provided positive feedback. Thank you especially to Yorkshire Dave. Your long post (explaining the situation clearly) was brilliant, and very well written. If I was in Yorkshire, I'd be taking you for a pint to say thank you! So, quick update....
1. A new plumber visited on Thursday. He pointed out that the flexible hose, fitted in December, was 'not to standard'. This has now been corrected and replaced with copper piping. Please see 3 attached pics, which show the Original set up, the Valve & hose fitted in December (marked image D), and Corrective work with copper piping (image E). I was charged £109 (including vat) for this corrective work, which seemed perfectly reasonable.
2. The new plumber asked me about Gas Safety checks. I can confirm I get a landlords gas safety check every year, without fail, and have always passed. I keep all documentation. The company who carry out this check for me every year is called gas-elec (www.gas-elec.co.uk). I also pay the same company to check our smoke detectors and co alarms.
2. After repeated requests for a breakdown, the original plumbers emailed me last week, and confirmed that they hadn't given me any paperwork, and couldn't provide it.
3. My partner emailed the original plumbers, pointing out the following. That they have a) overcharged for the work, b) provided inaccurate information about what work was carried out, c) carried out the work incorrectly, and d) not provided an invoice. It stated that unless the company reimbursed us for £498, we would issue legal proceedings, and that we would also contact the relevant trade bodies and trade standards organisations regarding the inadequate work (possibly by unqualified persons). The email asked the plumbers to confirm their address for service.
4. The original plumbers called my partner, and admitted that we had been overcharged. They offered a full refund.
5. My partner, being the reasonable chap he is, suggested they refund us £400, on the basis that they did at least install a valve.
6. I have now been refunded £400!

So a good outcome. I realise in future I'm going to have to be more careful about the tradespeople I use, and how I deal with them, however I do have to trust people to a certain extent. I find most tradespeople are decent, honest and straightforward.

Apologies that this story has dragged on, and that I have bored some of you to death. I do appreciate your time and help. Information provided here was very useful.

One final thing. Not all landlords are bad! I do appreciate that there are plenty of dodgy landlords around, who give everyone a bad name, but there are lots just like me, who really care about their properties and want their tenants to be happy.

1_Original.jpg


2_New valve.jpg


3_correctedwork.jpg
 
Then what is the unvented that's on Gas Safe please?

View attachment 36475
So, in theory, you need G3 or building control sign-off to install a vented cylinder too, even though the level 2 diploma shows you how to do it correctly and safely.

Am I the only one who asks himself what possible advantage there is in requiring a compentent plumber like myself with NVQ 2 to get building control in whenever he changes a cylinder and how many customers will be willing to pay the extra and wait for a BCO visit before I can get their hot water on for them?
 
So, in theory, you need G3 or building control sign-off to install a vented cylinder too, even though the level 2 diploma shows you how to do it correctly and safely.

Am I the only one who asks himself what possible advantage there is in requiring a compentent plumber like myself with NVQ 2 to get building control in whenever he changes a cylinder and how many customers will be willing to pay the extra and wait for a BCO visit before I can get their hot water on for them?

You pass your g3, which is not just for unvented, then you can either attach your pass to a competent person scheme, for a fee, or not.
If you attach it to a competent person scheme you can install (providing details of install to building control prior to install), repair and service. The installation part being notifiable through your competent person scheme to building control.
If you don't you can still install by raising a building control notification and having them sign it off on completion. You can still repair and service as well.
Either way the customer will pay. I now need to renew my g3 and will be going via option 2. It will put an extra £255 on any install.

Not too sure if vented is notifiable, wasn't 5 years ago.
 
Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. I do appreciate your time and help. Information provided here was very useful.

MF. Thank you for the update. Glad that UK Plumbers Forum members have been of some use - remind me to point this out to my wife... :rolleyes:

The shocking reality is that most trades people are honest and decent. Life however does sometimes conspire against you and you get someone, let's say, opportunistic. TBH, I am amazed at the response of the company you used. I know this will sound distinctly odd, but in your shoes I'd actually be tempted to give them a call and use them, IF they can do it, for your annual unvented cylinder service. Why? Because at that response I'd say it was an anomaly and they would be keen to prove to you that they can do much better.

Keep in touch ;) although not tooo much :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :D
 
Unless I missed something and without reading the whole thread again was it established why the boiler wasn't working originally and was it fixed?
 
Yorkshire Dave - I most definitely won't be using the original plumbers again! I don't trust them in the slightest. The second plumber, however, is now in my contacts file.

The reason for the surprising response, and fast turnaround of events, is that, after collecting all the facts together (thanks to this forum, and the second plumber), a constructive lawyer friend offered to have a word. He's very charming and friendly, but not someone you would want to take on in a construction dispute! A quick look at his profile would have made them come to their senses. Miraculously, straight after he got involved, my money was returned and the missing invoice appeared.
 
[QUOTE="Rob Foster, post: 1020992, member:
have you a current landlords and tennants gas safe certificate ? ...show us...are all your smoke alarms ok ? if you are a bona fide landlord then you will have a current inventory produced by an estate agent ..[/QUOTE]

I can`t believe just how rude you were here Rob, demanding the OP show`s us the current gas safe certificate and what has an inventory got to do with the thread plus you are nothing like the old chk you claim to be with your weekly claims of this, that and the other so what changed?
 
have you a current landlords and tennants gas safe certificate ? ...show us...are all your smoke alarms ok ? if you are a bona fide landlord then you will have a current inventory produced by an estate agent ..

I can`t believe just how rude you were here Rob, demanding the OP show`s us the current gas safe certificate and what has an inventory got to do with the thread plus you are nothing like the old chk you claim to be with your weekly claims of this, that and the other so what changed?

Seems a bit arbitrary to be frank. When I used to rent my house out I did my own inventory as it was by far more accurate and detailed than the twaddle the letting agent could come up with. Will never forget the letter to me from the agent stating 'the cooker was dirty when the tenants vacated. They claim that the cooker was dirty when they moved in. The inventory states Marked Consistent with Age [I still have that cooker now I've moved into the house myself - not sure where it is marked] so we cannot prove otherwise.' Then, verbally, the agent told me to charge the tenants for cleaning as it was their responsibility to clean regardless of the state of cleanliness when they moved in.

Knowing full well that the kitchen was not dirty when the tenants had moved in, I told the agent I was unimpressed with the standard of the inventory and wondered what I had paid them for, then let the tenants go without charging them as I lacked the evidence. And never used that agent again.

Very hard to be a good landlord when most letting agents work to the above standard in my experience.
 
Actually, I do have an inventory! But, as you kindly point out RPM, Rob's earlier point had no real relevance to the thread. The professional inventory company I use is: www.green-kite.co.uk

A few interesting points were raised earlier about professional management of properties. When I first rented out our house, to 4 tenants under one tenancy agreement, I used an estate agent to fully manage the property. They were useless! They didn't do a thing. Our tenants repeatedly complained to me about how useless they were, and begged me to take over the management, as they found me so much more friendly & responsive. Based on that experience, I will never use an estate agents to manage my property again, and I advise people to manage their properties themselves, if they can.

In addition to not looking after our property, or responding to our tenants needs quickly, I found out (too late) that the estate agents were completely ripping off our tenants (ie) if an individual tenant was moving out of the house, and they had personally found a replacement tenant/friend to take their place in the household, they were being charged a whopping £450 by the estate agent for a simple name-change on the tenancy agreement! I think the estate agents repeated that scam at least twice before I found out what was going on. It was outrageous. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is estate agents do not manage properties particularly well. Homeowners, decent homeowners, do.
 
Actually, I do have an inventory! But, as you kindly point out RPM, Rob's earlier point had no real relevance to the thread. The professional inventory company I use is: www.green-kite.co.uk

A few interesting points were raised earlier about professional management of properties. When I first rented out our house, to 4 tenants under one tenancy agreement, I used an estate agent to fully manage the property. Stirling Ackroyd to be precise. They were useless! They didn't do a thing. Our tenants repeatedly complained to me about how useless they were, and begged me to take over the management, as they found me so much more friendly & responsive. Based on that experience, I will never use an estate agents to manage my property again, and I advise people to manage their properties themselves, if they can.

In addition to not looking after our property, or responding to our tenants needs quickly, I found out (too late) that the estate agents were completely ripping off our tenants (ie) if an individual tenant was moving out of the house, and they had personally found a replacement tenant/friend to take their place in the household, they were being charged a whopping £450 by the estate agent for a simple name-change on the tenancy agreement! I think the estate agents repeated that scam at least twice before I found out what was going on. It was outrageous. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is estate agents do not manage properties particularly well. Homeowners, decent homeowners, do.
Have a look at Vibrant they are national ,accountable and cross ref all their work. just an idea
centralheatking ...I use them for my places in Lancashire
 

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