Plastic piping for central heating

[bassmonster]

Hi all,
What are your thoughts and experience on using plastic piping for the central heating run?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

[tolly]

Would always use copper if it was down to me. If you have to use plastic though, make sure its barrier if using for Heating to prevent ingress of air and try to only use fittings in accessible places, i.e don't use them underneath tiled bathroom floors etc

 

[kozak1968]

Anything out of sight in plastic. Rad tails and cylinder cupboards in copper.

 

[lame plumber]

used it to save time in the past, wouldnt bother now though. feels better to use copper, especially as the new consumer rights laws have just changed in the buyers favour all round

 

[kozak1968]

I don't think many customers or building contractors would want you in the property for longer than necessary. Coppers better but cost more to install unfortunately.

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

Use loads of Hep2O on new builds, in the floors but never on show as that looks carp.

 

[AWheating]

nowt wrong with plastic if installed correctly.

 

[jtsplumbing]

I'm going more in favour of Tec tight pipe now, stays ridged can be bent, same price as plastic pipe

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I'm going more in favour of Tec tight pipe now, stays ridged can be bent, same price as plastic pipe

or mlc

 

[plumben]

Ive done a few installs in Speed fit, with chrome and copper tails,

It's useful if your doing long runs with no joints but other than that I prefer copper I can sleep better at night then

 

[bassmonster]

Thank you you all for the replies.

the install is to go into my house as i'm going for a complete refurb...

i've never used plastic, this it's going to be my first...

 

[jtsplumbing]

Need to be careful if connecting to chrome pipe, (it can slip off) but as long as you follow instructions it will be ok, Main points NEVER Cut Pipe With HACKSAW / ALLWAYS USE MANUFACTORS INSERTS.

 

[Matt06]

I'd use copper, Makes me feel bad when I go to merchants and people buy a length of copper pipe for example and half a dozen plastic push fit elbows not that its relevant

Plastic fittings are expensive and I don't trust them, If you haven't used plastic before I guess you usually use copper ?

 

[newcastle phill]

I prefer copper.
But they are both proven, acceptable and have distinct benefits

 

[hammers4spanner]

I'm going more in favour of Tec tight pipe now, stays ridged can be bent, same price as plastic pipe

Went down plumb to get some other day pointless exercise that turned out to be !!

 

[jtsplumbing]

Went down plumb to get some other day pointless exercise that turned out to be !!

Understood Cattledown branch kept it in !!

 

[Worcester]

Our work is either new build or complete refurb, we only use plastic on heat pump installations (not allowed on biomass - see MI's) we use exclusively polyplumb pipe and polysure fittings, (more expensive I know) that gives us complete peace of mind on any fittings underfloor. Also pressure test as per MI's (usually 10 bar..) don't do it with air, (too dangerous) that will find any leaks and 'set' the connectors as well.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Understood Cattledown branch kept it in !!

Thats what i thought went to get some had about a dozen fittings !!!

You have to order them in.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Our work is either new build or complete refurb, we only use plastic on heat pump installations (not allowed on biomass - see MI's) we use exclusively polyplumb pipe and polysure fittings, (more expensive I know) that gives us complete peace of mind on any fittings underfloor. Also pressure test as per MI's (usually 10 bar..) don't do it with air, (too dangerous) that will find any leaks and 'set' the connectors as well.

Think you need to check on test pressure thought Polyplumb want 18bar 15mins min / max 60 min

 

[Worcester]

Think you need to check on test pressure thought Polyplumb want 18bar 15mins min / max 60 min

Sorry I wasn't paying attention to the detail, just bringing up the requirement to do it, Hence comment of MI's
Polypipe is 18bar, and I think from memory Speedfit is 10 bar..

Here's all we've got from Polypipe and JG Speedfit - anyone got anything else?

Polypipe:

1st fix installations
Pipe and fittings only should be tested. The system should be completely filled using water at not more than 20°C at a test pressure of 18 Bar which should be applied for not less than 15 minutes and no longer than 1 hour. Joint security can be checked visually and by tugging at joints.
2nd fix installations
Complete installations including appliances should be tested with water to the maximum test pressure allowed by manufacturers of the appliances and fittings.
Please note, due to health and safety reasons Polypipe products must not be air tested.

Pressure testing of the pipe system is essential, however a successful pressure test using the following steps is not a guarantee of complete and correct installation and only ensures that pipes have been inserted into fittings passed both the ‘O’ ring and the grab ring.
If pipes have been scored or scratched during the installation process a high pressure test as below may not highlight these issues.

Speedfit:

System Testing.
To ensure the pipework and fittings have been inst alled correctly, whether it be on a new or extended system, it is essential that the system is checked and hydraulically wet tested. Testing should be at 2 bar for 10 minutes while checking for leaks or pressure drops and 10 bar for 10 minutes while checking for leaks or pressure drops.
This testing, combined with other relevant checks, should reveal installation problems and is regarded as good plumbing practice. However, system testing should not be regarded as a substitute for correct installation. (JG Speedfit do not recommend air testing of pipework)

 

[Stanios]

Only benefit of plastic is how incredibly faster it is to do just about any installation with it.
If I was working on my own house though where time isnt really a constraint so I would always only use copper. Its just more durable. Customer's house 10 years down the line isnt your problem, your own house will be.

 

[Worcester]

Only benefit of plastic is how incredibly faster it is to do just about any installation with it.

Other "benefit" to a self-builder / diyer is the lack of technical jointing aka soldering skills needed.

 

[JCSPLUMBING]

It's so much quicker on installations. I hate to admit I use it all the time on heating installs. I use coils rather than lengths mainly. anything on show is of course copper. Airing cupboards/rad tails etc. I done a heating install the other week. 7 rads on. Combi. No previous heating at all. My mate fitted the boiler and I done all the rest. I had all rads hung by 12. All first fix pipe done by 5. Next day I piped up the rads with couple of drops downstairs in copper. Took me longer to do those drops than the whole first fix. Crazy

 

[AWheating]

Plastic is quicker on new builds with access to underside of floor/ joists. when retro fitting its can be as time consuming as copper i think, mainly because you need to lift boards every 300-500mm or so to battern and/or clip where as copper needs less supports so can be fished further.

 

[plumb_know]

Find plastic sags when hot even when clipped correctly wouldn't want to use it on open vented system at risk of air locks. But have started to use hep2o more as does have benefits and these are only plastic fittings I have confidence in at the moment.

 

[Worcester]

.. have started to use hep2o more as does have benefits and these are only plastic fittings I have confidence in at the moment.

That's why we use polysure; fittings not cheap, however they are secure

 

[Staffy85]

personally i find the expansion of your regular plastic/barrier pipe to be to much! everything has its pros and cons but i do think there are a lot of people abusing plastic pipes by not clipping and not using it to its full benefit of its length over copper by using manifolds to minimize fittings in walls, under floors and generally places that cant be accessed, obviously more pipe will be used but IMO its worth it ,

Iv been using the new TEC mlcp for awhile now , i like it , doesnt expand like your plastic and behaves more like annealed copper , not keen on the bend radius but with its 3 piece liner it makes the joint double sealed as to what it would normally be , coupled that with the 316 stainless fittings and you have a very good joint! expensive but good!!

 

[jtsplumbing]

personally i find the expansion of your regular plastic/barrier pipe to be to much! everything has its pros and cons but i do think there are a lot of people abusing plastic pipes by not clipping and not using it to its full benefit of its length over copper by using manifolds to minimize fittings in walls, under floors and generally places that cant be accessed, obviously more pipe will be used but IMO its worth it ,

Iv been using the new TEC mlcp for awhile now , i like it , doesnt expand like your plastic and behaves more like annealed copper , not keen on the bend radius but with its 3 piece liner it makes the joint double sealed as to what it would normally be , coupled that with the 316 stainless fittings and you have a very good joint! expensive but good!!

Are you bending it using a pipe bender ? find it bends as good as copper, like it that you can pipe right up to the boiler and the white pipe looks good where its visible, and the customer doesn't cover it in paint !

 

[Worcester]

We use mlcp (from emmeti) in our underfloor heating, goes down a treat (PE-RT/AL/PE-RT Alpert MLCP UFH Pipe – 16 x 2mm)

 

[Staffy85]

Are you bending it using a pipe bender ? find it bends as good as copper, like it that you can pipe right up to the boiler and the white pipe looks good where its visible, and the customer doesn't cover it in paint !

just by hand , i thought that you couldnt do it with benders? just my opinion but you know when you use benders on copper it fixes the copper and then pulls/stretch's it around a radius , i didnt think this was suitable for it being pex/al/pex & plus tectite make bending springs for it which is another reason otherwise it does state that bend radius is the same as a bender 4xO.D {think thats the same?} but tectite bending springs should be used but ill give it a go on a scrap piece and see what its like, but yea its good, only downside i think is the bore size and the liners seem abit restrictive ? but otherwise its joints with liners are almost fool proof

 

[tolly]

That's why we use polysure; fittings not cheap, however they are secure

Doesn't Polysure still rely on rubber O-rings to seal though?

I've used a lot of Rehau PEX with there everloc fittings over the last 3 years or so for new builds and prefer that, no grab rings and no rubber O-rings to deteriorate, pipes flared and then a brass sleeve is pulled on to the barbed brass fittings with a machine. I'd imagine its atleast twice as expensive as polysure though.

I would be tempted to look at Buteline if I wanted a cheaper alternative, as again theres no grab rings and no O-rings, the PB pipe is just slid into the barbed fittings and crimped on with there crimp tool which is only £30 or something. Hugely popular in NZ but a few places stock it here now.

 

[Worcester]

Yep they have o-rings, though we've played around a bit and it has sealed up to > 6 bar without them - never took them to destruction, the crimping process works on an annular basis so squeezes / seals/ locks it all round.

At least these kinds of fittings are getting more professional and less diy

Product / component availability is the key element.

 

[jtsplumbing]

just by hand , i thought that you couldnt do it with benders? just my opinion but you know when you use benders on copper it fixes the copper and then pulls/stretch's it around a radius , i didnt think this was suitable for it being pex/al/pex & plus tectite make bending springs for it which is another reason otherwise it does state that bend radius is the same as a bender 4xO.D {think thats the same?} but tectite bending springs should be used but ill give it a go on a scrap piece and see what its like, but yea its good, only downside i think is the bore size and the liners seem abit restrictive ? but otherwise its joints with liners are almost fool proof

Had a chat with rep about it ,was him what told us that you can use a normal bender !! seems to work OK

 

[Staffy85]

Had a chat with rep about it ,was him what told us that you can use a normal bender !! seems to work OK

ah nice, yea using it today my boss put an off cut in the bender to test it out and came out looking alright, good to know cheers,

 

[TFGplumbing]

Hi all,
What are your thoughts and experience on using plastic piping for the central heating run?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Copper all day every day, if the client wants a faster cheaper job i'am not the guy that's going to do it.

 

[Worcester]

Copper all day every day, if the client wants a faster cheaper job i'am not the guy that's going to do it.

One day you'll have no choice as you'll be underpriced by everyone else and all your work will dry up.

I'm not saying it's better or worse; done properly plastic has it's place. Our projects are time and hence labour costs sensitive. Hence we are not looking for shortcuts, we are looking for more efficient ways of doing our work, yet maintaining a very high standard, hence mapress/xpress and polysure.

Our first choice is always copper with xpress; sometimes, plastic is the right solution.

Sure you wouldn't rather be sweating lead pipes together? (Lights touch paper and retires to safe distance )

 

[TFGplumbing]

One day you'll have no choice as you'll be underpriced by everyone else and all your work will dry up.

I'm not saying it's better or worse; done properly plastic has it's place. Our projects are time and hence labour costs sensitive. Hence we are not looking for shortcuts, we are looking for more efficient ways of doing our work, yet maintaining a very high standard, hence mapress/xpress and polysure.

Our first choice is always copper with xpress; sometimes, plastic is the right solution.

Sure you wouldn't rather be sweating lead pipes together? (Lights touch paper and retires to safe distance )

There's always someone cheaper no matter what materials you use. My preference is copper guess iam a dinosaur at the age of 30

 

[DirksPlumbing]

MLCP most of the time (Unipipe and Tectite). I love the fact, it's oxygen tight like a copper pipe and of course the fact, you can bend it but it will not sag if fitted correctly. It is white, no painting needed normally. If the outer layer gets a score it is not the end of the world. You can get it in coils which means no unnecessary joints in attics or underneath floors.
No hassle with rodents either.

That's the kind of bender I am using:
Bing Images

The great thing about Unipipe is the crimping. No tampering, rapid, secure. The pipe sizes can be advance or not. The 20mm is great on HWC with many take offs as it still has a small volume and therefore delivers faster than a Tectite 22mm or worse copper 22mm.

But on a CH backbone I prefer the Tectite 22mm.

Nearly forgotten, the price is similar to plastic.