New build micro bore

[natwill]

Hi,

Got the contract for the heating systems in 2 new builds. The builder wants to install the plastic micro bore system where the pipes come out from behind the rad.
Having never really worked with this system, I was wondering if there was any design guide or help with installing it.
The problem i'm having is knowing where to run the pipes, i.e down the middle of the wall/rad position? What about rads under windows? Can't find anything on building regs. Also, how do you bring the pipes up and out on the first floor without the risk of kinking them when you bend them back down to the rad valves.

Cheers

 

[ecowarm]

New built spec;...................................................................................................................................................... THROW IT IN AS QUICK AS POSSIBLE

 

[plumber0808]

The last one I done I fitted 2 gang boxes, fed hep into the boxes, elbows inside the boxes. Bit of pipe sticking out, cap and test. After its been plastered pull the capped pipes out fit new f&R from elbows behind rads in copper.
also used the chrome 15-10mm elbows out of the trvs for a neat finish

 

[plumber0808]

Also fitted 2 gang blanking plates with the holes cut out to seal off the boxes.
its a bit of a palava but looked neat

 

[AWheating]

what you need to do is get silver foil tape, stick it to wall down the center of the rad, nail clip the 10mm pipes ontop of the silver foil tape to a electrical 1 gang box or a radiator face plate. like below. if the rad is under the window then drop down either one or both sides and run under sil and then down to center of rad to box.

the silver foil is for detection.

if you checkout polypipes website you can download an installation guide for there plastic pipework systems (POLYPLUMB,POLYFIT)

as a start :

pay careful attention to clipping distances (normally every 300-400mm),
correct sizing of pipework especially the max heat outputs of the 10mm plastic,
only run 10mm a max length of 10m (5m flow + 5 m return),
pressure test the pipework using a test pump to the manufacturers guidlines (normally from 10 to 18 bar),
only drill joists in the correct drill zones if standard joists, engineer joists must be drilled to the joist manufacturers instructions,
lagg all hot and cold pipework,
any platic pipework in stud walls will need lagging and silver tape over the top,
use 600mm of copper for tails to fixtures,
keep plastic 2-3m away from boiler and cylinder

etc.....

 

[Ryan Jones]

All the above are amteurish. I'm glad I dont do site work as I'd be ashamed of piping up radiators this way. See it in so many houses and it looks awful!

 

[AWheating]

All the above are amteurish. I'm glad I dont do site work as I'd be ashamed of piping up radiators this way. See it in so many houses and it looks awful!

may be so but its the standard way of doing it on new builds,you may not do it this way in your own house but thats what the builders want to pay for.

its pointless being ashamed and homeless.

 

[plumber0808]

Sign of the times. There not built like they used to be. Minimal everything on show.
no floors are disturbed leaving you little choice with what and how you run pipes.
if you started sawing and lifting boards up on a new build the builder will waste no time in kicking you off

 

[lame plumber]

yuk yuk yuk, soooo glad I dont have to do site work, just wish they would open some more sites up to get all those who fell off the sites back into work, so I can stop having to follow behind some of their attempted boiler repairs, not their fault but each to their own.

 

[Crinkmeister]

Do all new builds use plastic now? I suppose it's a lot cheaper and less likely to get half-inched, but as I'm of the age where I still remember 405 line black and white telly, I prefer good old copper.

 

[AWheating]

the price difference is not alot really, the bigest cost saving is on the installation time. Labour is the biggest place to save money normally.

 

[Howsie]

I think it looks tidy when done right. Generally can't see any pipes to the rad.

 

[erj]

do a lot like this no problem see very littel pipe work, when the pipe come out the wall up over just make a big loop back down to the valve, then the customer can lift the rad off to decacrate.

 

[Crinkmeister]

You can lift off without disconnecting?

 

[kirkgas]

Ryan get your head out your erse, these days guys have to do what the customer wants and will pay for, and its no reflection on the guys doing the work, as someone else says, who wants NO work, it's just a way to do it, I'm glad to hear that at least you are doing everything perfectly and are the saviour of plumbing while e rest of them are not worthy of your vast ( do tell how long you have been a master plumber) experience

 

[erj]

You can lift off without disconnecting?

Yes helps if the rad is not too big, first time you do it you heart is beating fast, but it works!

 

[Crinkmeister]

I'd be terrified of cracking a pipe! Brilliant if it works though.

 

[TBServices]

I think it looks tidy when done right. Generally can't see any pipes to the rad.

I agree. No pipes to ram with the Hoover either.

 

[stevetheplumber]

All the above are amteurish. I'm glad I dont do site work as I'd be ashamed of piping up radiators this way. See it in so many houses and it looks awful!

thats a ridiculous statement how can it look awfull you cant see any of the pipework rads appear to be fed from nowhere and it cant be amateurish if it done by many tradesmen every day personal i have no problem with these systems they work well with fast heat up due to low water content

 

[plumber0808]

I think they look neat, as long as there set out and first fixed properly.
i know there not to everyone's taste.
I like new builds there efficient, well insulated, good water pressures as most are unvented set up. Most come with en suite and cloakroom, everything is installed so that you see very little services.

 

[WHPES]

I'm a bit of a copper dinosaur but will do what the customer asks for.

Nothing more satisfying than coming to a house where a mouse has chewed through a plastic fitting and pointing out it's plastic pipework.

Came across a new build last year. Plumbing had been done after floors were down and there was grey polyplumb surface mounted all over the place and screwed to the skirting boards. Looked dreadful. Homeowner was wanting a price for getting it done properly.

 

[stevetheplumber]

I'm a bit of a copper dinosaur but will do what the customer asks for.

Nothing more satisfying than coming to a house where a mouse has chewed through a plastic fitting and pointing out it's plastic pipework.

Came across a new build last year. Plumbing had been done after floors were down and there was grey polyplumb surface mounted all over the place and screwed to the skirting boards. Looked dreadful. Homeowner was wanting a price for getting it done properly.

thats not the fault of it being plastic rubbish plumbers can make anything look bad ive seen copper run diagonal from corner of room to pass behind the rad in the center of the wall not a clip in sight

 

[lame plumber]

Ryan get your head out your erse, these days guys have to do what the customer wants and will pay for, and its no reflection on the guys doing the work, as someone else says, who wants NO work, it's just a way to do it, I'm glad to hear that at least you are doing everything perfectly and are the saviour of plumbing while e rest of them are not worthy of your vast ( do tell how long you have been a master plumber) experience

like the subtle approach kirkg', luckily no builds happening this way at present so no chance of plastic snakes everywhere. I just feel sorry for lads in 20 years time ripping out old plastic, no beer money ( unless the chinese want old plastic then)

 

[WHPES]

True

Did a job at a pub and only found one bracket on any of the pipework on the entire premises. Landlord said the pipes forever rattled and shook.

 

[plumber0808]

I prefer to use copper. But have learnt to accept plastic for its be benefits, it would be silly not to. Plastic should never be seen on show.

 

[kay-jay]

What we do on first fix is tee down off flow with a big loop that feeds back into return after popping through the the grommet plates in the pic above. You can then test pipework. All that's required then is to cut the loop and feed each end to either rad valve

 

[Ryan Jones]

Well I'm very sorry. It looks as though I've offended a few of you. Never claimed to be a master plumber. I simply wouldn't do it this way as we no longer use 10mm plastic due to blockage problems but maybe I'm the silly one not making work for myself a few years down the line.

 

[WHPES]

I come across plenty of blockages in 10mm plastic, usually at the pipe inserts as they cause a constriction. 10mm copper would be better.

 

[stevetheplumber]

I come across plenty of blockages in 10mm plastic, usually at the pipe inserts as they cause a constriction. 10mm copper would be better.

ive not come across tyhis problem what do these blockages consist of ?most sealed systems with sufficient inhibitor in them seem to stay clean as a whistle

 

[WHPES]

Come across corrosion debris (even in sealed systems)

 

[Ryan Jones]

My theory is inferior steel used on recent radiators. Yet to see a blockage in 10mm plastic where the old Barlo rads were used.

 

[AWheating]

Well I'm very sorry. It looks as though I've offended a few of you. Never claimed to be a master plumber. I simply wouldn't do it this way as we no longer use 10mm plastic due to blockage problems but maybe I'm the silly one not making work for myself a few years down the line.

you have not offended anybody tbh.

from what i cant see your not understanding what is being said. you say that you simply wouldnt use plastic......fine and thats your choice but the point is that in most cases its not you the plumbers decision on what materials are used but the customers choice. So to say that you would never do it means you are saying that you would refuse to work on 95% of news builds in the uk. If you have enough work coming in to avoid this work then good, most plumbers cant turn down work because they dont like the materials being supplied/specified. Plenty of good plumbers better than you and me will have done exactly this type of work.

 

[plumber0808]

you have not offended anybody tbh.

from what i cant see your not understanding what is being said. you say that you simply wouldnt use plastic......fine and thats your choice but the point is that in most cases its not you the plumbers decision on what materials are used but the customers choice. So to say that you would never do it means you are saying that you would refuse to work on 95% of news builds in the uk. If you have enough work coming in to avoid this work then good, most plumbers cant turn down work because they dont like the materials being supplied/specified. Plenty of good plumbers better than you and me will have done exactly this type of work.

This is very true, if you go on a larger new build they spec what is used, where it is to be run at what height, everything. That's how it's done no if's or but's. if you don't do it their way they won't pay you and will no doubt charge you to have it put right.

 

[Howsie]

Tbh plastic is fine 1st fix when done right. Is actually my preference TBH.

 

[StillLearnin]

Brings back memories of the microbore nicely hidden behind the skirting .... then the carpenter put his nail gun to good use and generate a sprinkler. What ever material you plumb in you need to think about maintenance and protection.

PS: how do you hang a radiator in a modern house ... or an expansion vessel ..... most walls don't seem capable of holding them!

 

[plumber0808]

Brings back memories of the microbore nicely hidden behind the skirting .... then the carpenter put his nail gun to good use and generate a sprinkler. What ever material you plumb in you need to think about maintenance and protection.

PS: how do you hang a radiator in a modern house ... or an expansion vessel ..... most walls don't seem capable of holding them!

Internal wall Wooden boards between studs, external as normal.
expansion vessels, fit a bit of 3-1 across the back, it will be in a airing cupboard anyway

 

[StillLearnin]

I mostly do maintenance and repair..... it's getting easy to tell when the expansion vessel has gone.... it falls off the wall .... and I am not joking, luckily they are either supported by the pipework or come to rest on something else. I do agree if the plumber takes time to fix battens properly there shouldn't be a problem ..... but a lot don't seem to bother!

 

[plumber0808]

I wouldn't fit battens , tell the chippy to do it. It is wood after all

 

[kirkgas]

Ryan it isn't a prob that you don't use plastic it was your derogatory comments to people doing a brilliant job every day with ever decreasing profit and ever increasing hassle
I don't work on new builds now ( I only train so don't do any real work at all now) but I won't slag anyone else unless I have something to slag them about
And I don't think you offended anyone just made yourself sound like a by of a prat

 

[Meady]

We work on new build and use a bit of skirting to hang the vessel on.

make it long enough to go across the width of the airing cupboard due to there being two vessels and you can get a fixing to the studs in the wall and a bit of gripfill behind.

Im able to hang off a vessel when hung like this (yes I've tried)

 

[plumber0808]

We work on new build and use a bit of skirting to hang the vessel on.

make it long enough to go across the width of the airing cupboard due to there being two vessels and you can get a fixing to the studs in the wall and a bit of gripfill behind.

Im able to hang off a vessel when hung like this (yes I've tried)

You must be light. :balloon:

I think the expansion vessel would fall to bits if I done that, or pull the stud wall down

 

[Meady]

Nope 14 stone and proud

 

[StillLearnin]

sorry, one of the vessels I had fall was on a bit of skirting.... it had pulled the skirting away as well! .... I guess the answer is that the original skirting hadn't caught any studs .... trouble is that people seem to be rushing and this problem seems to be on the increase. When an expansion vessel goes, it fills with water .... and becomes very heavy.

 

[AWheating]

stud wall needs a timber stud. For a dabbed wall use some spray paint and mark the position of the boiler and rads etc... and get the plaster'er to put plenty of dab/board adhesive in the marked areas.

you will find the board adhesive is a better fix than the blocks.