New Bathroom questions

[redmohican]

Firstly, let me introduce myself, I'm Martin, and great when it comes to general decorating, but when it comes to Electrics and Plumbing, for me that is a job for the professionals.

My problem ....
I am normally very careful when choosing a professional, so when I needed a bathroom refurbishment, I placed the job on ratedpeople.com.
After several quotes, I chose who I thought was best for the job.
The work has been 'completed', and the contractor is returning next Monday (12 April), to finish the parts I am not happy with, but I am having E-mail arguments with him, and wondered if someone could tell me if he has done right, or if I am right to complain to him.

The problems are
1. When he fitted the shower pump and associated pipework, this was placed under the bath, and blocked in by a wooden side panel, tiled. I was told that this was ok, as should I ever need to get to the plumbing or pump, just break the tiles and panel, then replace. The more I think about this, the more I think he has done wrong.

2. The pump was connected to a triple valve, which controls the overhead shower, the handheld shower, and bath spout. However, whilst the pump turns on with the water, the pressure is nothing special to what I had before. I was told I needed a 2 bar pump, and got a Salamander 2.4 bar pump.

3. The bathroom sink had it's pluming replaced, again with all of the pipework being boarded, plastered and tiled in (this I hasten to add was the contractors choice, sating this was best).
But, the water from the mixer tap on the sink is literally a dribble. It is not connected to the pump.
Before the work was carried out, I had strong pressure from the cold tap on the sink, and ok pressure from the hot. Now, to fill the sink, it takes in excess of 5 minutes!
The contractor has said that he cannot do anything about this because I did not have the pump connected to the sink. Should I at least still have the same pressure as I had before the refurbishment?

I am sorry if this is a lot to ask for a first thread, but I have literally used every last penny of my savings to get this work completed, and am worried it is money down the drain (or bathroom overflow!)

Many thanks in advance for any advice anyone can please give.
Martin

 

[WHPES]

1, Can you not just remove the wooden side panel for access and put it back afterwards? Why would you need to break tiles? If not, very stupid. Pump should be accessible for routine maintenance -cleaning pump strainers etc done annually.

2, 2.4 bar pump should really throw water out. Valve arrangement should be OK provided you aren't opening more than 1 valve at a time, but normally bath spout not pumped. Perhaps your new mixer is higher volume than the old one so seems weaker. Check pipework to pump is in 22mm and not 15mm or that's your problem. Hot pipe to pump should come directly from cylinder using Essex flange with no other connections between. Cold should come directly from tank in loft with no other connections. All in 22mm.

3, Pump should not be connected to the sink taps. Is there a flexi hose under the basin which is kinked?

 

[stevetheplumber]

as the customer its your job to say what you want no good waiting till its finished however the plumber also has a duty to do it right so with hold PARTpayment till its right

 

[redmohican]

1, Can you not just remove the wooden side panel for access and put it back afterwards? Why would you need to break tiles? If not, very stupid. Pump should be accessible for routine maintenance -cleaning pump strainers etc done annually.

2, 2.4 bar pump should really throw water out. Valve arrangement should be OK provided you aren't opening more than 1 valve at a time, but normally bath spout not pumped. Perhaps your new mixer is higher volume than the old one so seems weaker. Check pipework to pump is in 22mm and not 15mm or that's your problem. Hot pipe to pump should come directly from cylinder using Essex flange with no other connections between. Cold should come directly from tank in loft with no other connections. All in 22mm.

3, Pump should not be connected to the sink taps. Is there a flexi hose under the basin which is kinked?

Thankyou for the reply.
To answer:
1. The reason I would need to break tiles to access the pump is because the contractor boarded in the side of the bath, and tiled over, as he said this was the best way. I really am not an expert, so like so many people who experience problems, took the experts advice.

2. I have no idea what mm the piping is, as it is all boarded and tiled away. I did say that I thought the panels should be removable, but was told this was not necessary.
As for the water pressure using the pump, it comes out at a pressure that is ok, but nothing spectacular, so definitely it is not throwing the water out.

3. Yes, I know the contractor used a flexi hose under the sink, as he made this an added extra onto the job. Again I don't know if this is kinked because of the way it is hidden.

The Contractor is returning next Monday to second coat the door and door frame, and to sort out where the ceiling paint ran into the grouting, hence my wanting to get some facts to confront him with.
I have searched the net (and failed!) for legal specifications on how this should have been fitted, as I can see him saying to me 'what do they know?' when I show him the responses on this forum. Hope you can understand where I am coming from.

as the customer its your job to say what you want no good waiting till its finished however the plumber also has a duty to do it right so with hold PARTpayment till its right

Unfortunately, I have a really small bathroom (7 feet by 6 feet, the toilet is separate), so I wasn't able to go in at the same time he carried out the work. All I could see was the aesthetics of it when he said it was finished, and like any job, I have found out that looks are not always everything.

I have withheld the outstanding money until he comes back. He E-mailed me last night wanting a bank transfer, and I explained, not until I am satisfied.

 

[Plumbstar Tom]

i'm against this rated people and that as you cannot quote for a job with out seeing it

The pump dioes need to be accessed and unless its a super hightech jobby that i dont even think is made it will be air cooled and as such will require ventilation. Under the bath is generally a NO NO and it should be as close to the HW cylinder as poss

A 2.4 bar pump is the sort that should 'throw' water out so sometihng is up, where and how has the hot water connection been made?

Check the instructions of the pump which will of course have been left by your installer for site locations and fitting as if this is not follwed warranty is out of the window.

Is the tap that is fitted to the sink a low pressure tap suitable for a gravity system?

 

[WHPES]

If you want a tiled bath panel the proper way is to cut the board to size and tile it, then drill through the tiles and board where it is to be fastened and screw it complete with tiles to the frame, using mirror screws (with the caps) so that it can be taken off again.

Don't pay ANY more money until absolutely EVERYTHING is sorted and working correctly. Your plumber is not entitled to payment until completion of the job, and if there are still outstanding issues, the job is not complete.

 

[Phil]

Sounds like the poor hot flow on the basin mixertap is down to the wrong tap, most basin mixer's are only really designed for mains pressure water as the gravity hot struggles to get through the narrow waterways. The problem can be reduced slightly be using full bore isolating valves and copper tails sometimes.

I never fit them to unbalanced feeds without warning the customer before hand of the reduced hot flow.

Make sure he's put a non return valve on the hot feed (low pressure flap type) if he hasn't it needs one on.

 

[moony]

tell him the shower pump needs to be accessable for maintenance and servicing!
say your not or expecting anyone else to break tiles off whenever it needs to be maintained.

as others have said taps are not always compatible with gravity fed systems! should of been checked before fitting....

sometimes these rated sites arent the best option!

 

[redmohican]

i'm against this rated people and that as you cannot quote for a job with out seeing it

The pump does need to be accessed and unless its a super hightech job that i dont even think is made it will be air cooled and as such will require ventilation. Under the bath is generally a NO NO and it should be as close to the HW cylinder as poss

A 2.4 bar pump is the sort that should 'throw' water out so something is up, where and how has the hot water connection been made?

Check the instructions of the pump which will of course have been left by your installer for site locations and fitting as if this is not followed warranty is out of the window.

Is the tap that is fitted to the sink a low pressure tap suitable for a gravity system?

Firstly thankyou to everyone for your help so far.
To be fair to ratedpeople.com, all of the contractors came around to my home to quote. I had also purchased everything needed (except any plumbing supplies), which the contractor checked.

As I have said previously, I have no idea where the connections on the pump are made, as I cannot see anything. I'm getting more worried by the hour now reading these replies.
Is there any regulatory body for this kind of work does anyone know please?

If you want a tiled bath panel the proper way is to cut the board to size and tile it, then drill through the tiles and board where it is to be fastened and screw it complete with tiles to the frame, using mirror screws (with the caps) so that it can be taken off again.

Don't pay ANY more money until absolutely EVERYTHING is sorted and working correctly. Your plumber is not entitled to payment until completion of the job, and if there are still outstanding issues, the job is not complete.

Exactly what I asked for, but the contractor said his way was best.
I have never been able to afford a special bathroom before, and this was going to be my dream. I think a nightmare is beginning.
I won't be paying any more money, and if he gets really stroppy, I will threaten court action perhaps?

Sounds like the poor hot flow on the basin mixertap is down to the wrong tap, most basin mixer's are only really designed for mains pressure water as the gravity hot struggles to get through the narrow waterways. The problem can be reduced slightly be using full bore isolating valves and copper tails sometimes.

I never fit them to unbalanced feeds without warning the customer before hand of the reduced hot flow.

Make sure he's put a non return valve on the hot feed (low pressure flap type) if he hasn't it needs one on.

Thankyou, I will ask him about the valve. I was never told of any problems before it was fitted.

 

[WHPES]

I had a similar job to go and sort out (leaking under bath). The bath panel was tiled and I had to smash it off. It was hiding some very shoddy workmanship plus an assortment of pizza boxes, *** packets, fish and chip wrappers and general rubbish which had been swept under the bath.

Another thing you need to check is has the bath been set into the wall if it is a solid wall, and plasteted back in or has it simply been pushed up against the wall and fixed?

Does any of the wall where the shower is have plasterboard behind the tiles as if it does, if it gets wet it will disintegrate?

Make sure you have enough spare tiles so that the bath panel can be redone properly.