Discuss Foreigners? I mean jobs. in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
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C
Ch4 plumbing
Word of mouth
As said word of mouth is the only real way you can go about it, although it dosnt hurt to let people know your a plumber
C
Ch4 plumbing
The other way is to get friendly with the counter staff at the merchant's, ask them to pass your name over to walk ins?
I trust you have all you pli etc and pay taxes? I winds me up not only am I competing against other self employed tradesmen I have to compete with employed people doing cash in hand jobs at the weekend and undercutting massively as they don't have to charge as much because they have a wage coming in!
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The best part about doing 'foreigners' on the side while you are employed, is that when you eventually take the plunge and start your own operation, you will realise how cheap you were.
And guess who else realises how cheap you were - your existing customer base.
When you start charging them a rate that you can survive on - you will no longer be getting their work.
Don't be upset - just about every plumber who has gone from being an employee to self employed has been through this.
A word of warning - don't start cutting your bosses lunch.
Bosses have an uncanny way of finding things like that out - most of us have been there and done that.
And guess who else realises how cheap you were - your existing customer base.
When you start charging them a rate that you can survive on - you will no longer be getting their work.
Don't be upset - just about every plumber who has gone from being an employee to self employed has been through this.
A word of warning - don't start cutting your bosses lunch.
Bosses have an uncanny way of finding things like that out - most of us have been there and done that.
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If I found out any of my staff was doing foreigners using my vans and/or tools they would be out the door faster than you could ever imagine. It would be pretty obvious though as both our vans have GPS tracking on them.
If they did it using their own van and tools I'd have no problem with it, their weekend is their own.
If they did it using their own van and tools I'd have no problem with it, their weekend is their own.
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Its even worse when you get on site and see guys talking about doing boiler changes on weekends when they are not gsr .
So many round here doing quick cash jobs that you just get under priced and yes none are insured but custs don't care from my experience.
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Ray Stafford
Thats very open minded of you Keiran. If one of my staff set up in competition with me, weekend or not, that would be the end of that.
In fact, exactly that has just happened. Its a "breach of trust and confidence" and a clear conflict of interest, and the end of someone's career with us.
I would be the exact same. If they were employed by me and potentially taking work off me I couldn't trust them in my customers homes knowing they could be trying to steal them off me in the future.
I would make exception if it was family.
I have only ever done foreigners for close friends and family but anything longer than an hour or 2 got passed to whoever I was working for and they usually got a bit of a deal and I'd get a few beers for it.
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Never really thought of it like that to be honest but certainly it makes sense. As far as I know none of my staff do but it's only a matter of time before it happens I'm sure. I certainly would reward the guys if they generate work for us through referrals etc.
As long as employers look after their staff (and I know you certainly do Ray, they're a cracking bunch) then staff members should be very grateful for a good opportunity in the current environment.
When I started up I did jobs for friends and family whilst I was off duty in the RN. The RN always came first though and if I had to stay late or do an extra duty the jobs got put back. I suppose it's very different if you are effectively taking jobs away from the boss that pays your wages.
As long as employers look after their staff (and I know you certainly do Ray, they're a cracking bunch) then staff members should be very grateful for a good opportunity in the current environment.
When I started up I did jobs for friends and family whilst I was off duty in the RN. The RN always came first though and if I had to stay late or do an extra duty the jobs got put back. I suppose it's very different if you are effectively taking jobs away from the boss that pays your wages.
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everyone starts with weekend and evening jobs for friends and family its the natural way towards being self employed unless they are stealing customers there isnt much you can do about it unless it specifically in there contract even then hard to prove if theres no paper trail
i was offered a job once they didnt want to put us on cards so we had to be subbing and then they said we wasnt allowed to work for anyone else told them to stick it some firms want their cake and eat it
i was offered a job once they didnt want to put us on cards so we had to be subbing and then they said we wasnt allowed to work for anyone else told them to stick it some firms want their cake and eat it
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I built up my experience whilst in the RN, sourcing jobs myself. I wouldn't dream of doing weekend jobs, i.e. being in direct competition with my employer. It's morally wrong imo. Whilst I didn't think it initially, what people have said is right. It's disloyal.
The circumstances you state are different, you're not being employed. They are trying to have their cake and eat it. I would certainly sack someone using my van/tools/stocks to do foreigners and in light of what others have said would certainly consider the same if they aren't passing the work to the business that pays their wage. I look after the guys money wise and (I think) they look after me, that's how my company works.
With GPS tracking use of our vans for foreigners would be very easy to prove. I don't look into it as I trust the lads, it's there in case of RTAs and if the vehicles are stolen.
Each company is of course different though and I do appreciate everyone has their own opinions!
The circumstances you state are different, you're not being employed. They are trying to have their cake and eat it. I would certainly sack someone using my van/tools/stocks to do foreigners and in light of what others have said would certainly consider the same if they aren't passing the work to the business that pays their wage. I look after the guys money wise and (I think) they look after me, that's how my company works.
With GPS tracking use of our vans for foreigners would be very easy to prove. I don't look into it as I trust the lads, it's there in case of RTAs and if the vehicles are stolen.
Each company is of course different though and I do appreciate everyone has their own opinions!
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R
Rickster123
I knew this thread would cause a reaction from the SE guys. Whatever puts food on the table. And don't get me started on paying tax. As an employed hard working member of society I pay 40% and over 100 notes a week national insurance.
I understand that on the books you do pay tax and a lot of it, I know I did when I was employed.
But imagine having your boss say to you we haven't got any work for you as we have someone who is gonna do it cash in hand and steal consumables and fittings so I only have to pay him half what you get. You'd be pretty peed off.
I know it goes on a lot but if I found someone I employed doing it they would be gone in a shot.
It's funny because my boss actively encourages me to do foreigners with the full use of company tools and van. Maybe that's down to the pee poor wages he pays. I don't quite understand why tradesmen think there's not enough work to go round??
In my opinion I don't think most people start up a business with the thought of the employees first. It's always money and and how much they can get. Why would hard working tradesmen pass a foreigner to a company, when they'll probably end up doing the job and get paid a lot less for it?
In my opinion I don't think most people start up a business with the thought of the employees first. It's always money and and how much they can get. Why would hard working tradesmen pass a foreigner to a company, when they'll probably end up doing the job and get paid a lot less for it?
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because if they are employed the company pays them a wage every month which (in my mind) is worth a bit of loyalty.
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But that's your decision
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R
Rickster123
Indeed it is. I'm employed Monday to Friday.
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so that's why you get ripped for tax and n.i
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Rickster123
Yep I only have myself to blame hammers.
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Not worked on the cards for ages would break me paying that N.I nowadays.
really don't see any bonuses of being on the cards
really don't see any bonuses of being on the cards
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Rickster123
im gonna find last weeks pay slip and tell you what tax and n.i I paid....
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Ray Stafford
I daren't look at mine. Just makes me angry.
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Rickster123
290 quid tax
87 quid national insurance.
there are some pro's to it tho. There has to be!
87 quid national insurance.
there are some pro's to it tho. There has to be!
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Rickster123
I thought yours went into your Swiss bank account??
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Ray Stafford
Presumably the chancellor will be coming round to wash your van and cut your lawn for you?
R
Ray Stafford
Pah! Got the corporation tax bill yesterday. <shudders>
B
Billy Bob Bob
when my dad worked for BT(he was with them for 20 years)if they caught you installing phonelines out side of working for them,it was deemed a instant,sack able offence,they deemed that they trained you,you then take the urine by being in competition with them,so cant blame you Ray
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Rickster123
I'd like to clarify I don't do private jobs. Infact I never work weekends. I'm knackered by Friday and can't be arsed with the grief of dealing with the general public.
R
Rickster123
Hes knocked a penny off a pint. But Malibu has gone up 47p. He's lost my vote.
B
Billy Bob Bob
i hate you,i have to work Saturday until 2 and do call outs
R
Rickster123
And I never work past 4 during the week. Family meal at 5pm every day. That's how I roll.
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Leaving that aside .......
I was like that when I was on the books. I worked hard enough Monday to Friday.
Paid holidays. Relax when you finish work and not sit and do pricing etc. not have to chase money. There are quite a few pros and self employed lads who earn the same as you will pay the same tax and ni.
I though much prefer self employment.
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Rickster123
yep, no gas safe fees, no acs costs, no van or van insurance, no fuel costs, paid holidays, sick pay, pension, power tools supplied, ppe supplied, no evenings spent pricing up jobs for time wasters, paid every Friday without fail. I'm happy with employment really.
Only thing I miss is my old transit van.
R
Ray Stafford
Sounds like a good life Adam.
M
Mike Jackson
The problem with people doing foreigners on the cheap is it devalues the entire trade. I lost out on a full heating install not long after I started back self employed. I quoted a reasonable price but the guy the got the job quoted my materials cost and did the work over a couple of weekends. I realise it's possible that he could have really good terms but the chances are he was doing a foreigner and getting most, if not all, of his materials off the back of his van that he uses for his 9-5.
When I worked for eagaheat anyone caught doing a foreigner was supposed to be goonered. The best one was when the office received a call that the boiler that had been fitted over the weekend had stopped working. The customer had taken the number off the side of the van the lad fitting the boiler was driving. Shame the guy was not doing it through the company.
I have no problem with people doing work in their own time as long as they have PLI, Gas safe etc. and use their own transport. That's no different to me working a few extra hours then and fair competition.
When I worked for eagaheat anyone caught doing a foreigner was supposed to be goonered. The best one was when the office received a call that the boiler that had been fitted over the weekend had stopped working. The customer had taken the number off the side of the van the lad fitting the boiler was driving. Shame the guy was not doing it through the company.
I have no problem with people doing work in their own time as long as they have PLI, Gas safe etc. and use their own transport. That's no different to me working a few extra hours then and fair competition.
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In the example you give the guy is just stealing, it crosses that blurred line between what's morally acceptable and not. He's stealing stock from his employer and selling it. I would be calling the police for something like that tbh. The customer is buying stolen goods too but even though they probably know that nothing will be done about it I'm sure!
I would say 9/10 people doing foreigners use their bosses stock. It is so easy to do though. I installed a full central heating system in a house I lived in and all the fittings, rad valves, clips, gas, solder etc was provided by the company I worked for. (I didn't even pay for the radiators but that was not through the company)
That to me is why anybody doing a foreigner would be gone in a shot.
I understand that there are people out there that are setting up for themselves who do work evenings and weekends and have all the costs but most of them still take stock off the bosses.
The old boy that taught me used to do a boiler every weekend (this was before you had to register them) and he used to build his stock up during the week then use it at the weekend. The boss found out because as mike said a customer took the number off the side of the van and couldn't get hold of him so phoned the company. That then made the boss stop all the lads using the vans outside of work and he got a warning (he was never going to get rid of him as he was the only gas installer they had)
Or the boss can't compete with people who are stealing materials, he also would have to make more money to replace stolen stock.
G
Gray0689
That's the most double standard message I've ever seen
Yeah I know lol.
Just saying that even if you do 1 foreigner how much you use and how the boss didn't know that I installed a heating system at his expense. I tried to get the HA to fit us radiators in every room as when we moved in there was a boiler and 2 rads in hallway and bathroom, this would of been passed to my company as they had the contract but they refused to do it. So I did try to do it right. Lol.
I very rarely did foreigners only for close family and friends and most of the times it was under an hour or 2 work like servicing and breakdowns so had to buy bits.
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