But what controls do I ACTUALLY need to have installed with the boiler?!

[lame plumber]

very special club, you won't ever see a sole trader going on strike, we value our customers to much. Always ready for work.

 

[Jay The Plumber]

Us?? Boys club all of a sudden?

you came here asking advice, then you start insulting the community here, you are behaving no better than any other internet troll .. so yes 'us', the community.

 

[Blackspaven]

Not allowed to strike even if you wanted to.

Whoa, back up sunshine, who was it who started off all aggressive?? Me?? No!! If you can't take it, don't give it!

Or are you saying part of the allowance of being gas safe is being allowed to talk to people like a jeremy hunt?! Nice attitude!

 

[Dotty]

OP. You either want advice or you don't.

I believe that you've been advised several times on this thread what controls you need as a bare minimum and what additional controls you can add to achieve the optimum performance from your boiler. Your boiler, you can have what you want. The question you really need to be asking yourself is whether you want to save a quick buck now or reduce your fuel bills over the life of the boiler.

But please don't be insulting us because we won't go into technical specifics. You don't need to know them. We do. All you need is a trust relationship with the installer. Which you clearly don't have.

 

[lame plumber]

Not allowed to strike even if you wanted to.

Whoa, back up sunshine, who was it who started off all aggressive?? Me?? No!! If you can't take it, don't give it!

Or are you saying part of the allowance of being gas safe is being allowed to talk to people like a jeremy hunt?! Nice attitude!

I think Mr Hunt has it dead right to be honest, folks who after 10 years can pull in £70k a year should earn it.

 

[Blackspaven]

If money is your goal, then more power to you. Doesn't drive all of us.

I'm merely responding to people attacking me for no reason, but this is getting more and more ridiculous as it goes on. Again, I didn't start any of this at all so I presume those in did will have a word page to them, surely in the name of equality and balance, yes?

Yes, got my answer already, but then it altered to a chat about weather compensating controllers, hence my thanks to those who brought them to my attention. Everything else was NOT of my construction!

I think a mod should close this thread, it's gotten childish!

 

[rpm]

I think a mod should close this thread

After 41 posts on something quite simple I agree.

 

[Blackspaven]

Absolutely! To be honest, I got my answer by about post 20 at the most but then it naturally swerved into talking about weather compensating units before taking a harsh left into abuse the op country!

 

[Masood]

EDIT: don't worry, I've just learnt about the boiler not working properly when you have a thermostat and every rad with a TRV, which was explained to me at the time but they just didn't expain it as boiler interlock, that's all. Strange, didn't think it would have been that hard to explain. Who knew?!

Your understanding of boiler interlock is still incorrect. It's true that you should not have a TRV in the same room as the room stat, but boiler interlock simply means any form of time & temperature control which positively shuts off the boiler when there is no demand for heat. So just having TRVs won't be compliant, but it's nothing to do with whether or not there's a TRV in the same room as the stat...

 

[Blackspaven]

Sorry, was trying to simplify my understanding cos typing on my phone is a pita!!

 

[Howsie]

Where did you find your plumbers for the quotes?

 

[Blackspaven]

Mainly recommendations off Streetlife.

 

[Howsie]

Is that the only way you know?

 

[Blackspaven]

Asking people who have been happy with previous work? Whatever I say will be wrong so go ahead.

 

[Howsie]

Sorry I was making a joke wrt the song Street Life by Wendy Crawford.

 

[Howsie]

You may have been unlucky with who you had in. I know many plumbers that don't have a clue when it comes to these sort of thing. Anybody can make rads get hot. You only have to look at how many boilers that are oversized to see that the fundamentals pass them by.

 

[Blackspaven]

Ah, gotcha... and I know the song. (just been taking a few hits on here of late so I've gotten a bit bleurgh)

Yeah, possibly I've been a little unllucky, it's just that I asked 5 people to quote for me from various sources and all have come up with different solutions, different ways of doing things, different 'rules' of what's 'allowed' (!!), and different ideas,... and very different prices, so it's unbelievably tricky for the layperson to try to work out what's actually needed and how much one should actually be paying when people in the trade are doing it every single day so know the worth & value of most things, boiler-wise.
If it was all along the same way, you could judge things on price, professionalism, apparent knowledge, etc. but it's such a wide playing field it's a nightmare when you're not up to speed. I appreciate all the people on here who have been giving their honest opinions though, I'm very much more clued up as to what I need and which plumbers seem to be on the money and which are wide of the mark.

Well done fellas. :willy_nilly:

(To be fair, I don't think the guys were 'bad' plumbers or anything like that, it was just such a variation that some outshone others, that's all. That's life!)

 

[Howsie]

Where are you based? I will be able to put you in touch with the right people. They will sit down with you and explain what you need and why. There will always be a couple of ways to skin a cat but the fundamentals are the same.

 

[Blackspaven]

Much love for the offer Howsie, but in the last few days I've managed to get a fella who seems really good, explains the why's and how's in a way that's understandable, charges a decent amount and is an all round good egg, so the job's his, it's just the small details over what bits & bobs I'm gonna add on... couple of extra rads and stuff... ;0)

Actually, I'm not too far from you in general, I live in Farnborough, just over the Surrey border.

 

[Dotty]

Much love for the offer Howsie, but in the last few days I've managed to get a fella who seems really good, explains the why's and how's in a way that's understandable, charges a decent amount and is an all round good egg, so the job's his, it's just the small details over what bits & bobs I'm gonna add on... couple of extra rads and stuff... ;0)

Actually, I'm not too far from you in general, I live in Farnborough, just over the Surrey border.

Make sure you treat him well, leaving the makings for tea and coffee always goes down a treat,

 

[Blackspaven]

Abso-bloomin'-lutely!

(couple of beers to go home with after as well probably! )

 

[Howsie]

Much love for the offer Howsie, but in the last few days I've managed to get a fella who seems really good, explains the why's and how's in a way that's understandable, charges a decent amount and is an all round good egg, so the job's his, it's just the small details over what bits & bobs I'm gonna add on... couple of extra rads and stuff... ;0)

Actually, I'm not too far from you in general, I live in Farnborough, just over the Surrey border.

Could you PM his name. I may know him...

 

[Blackspaven]

Will do, I only know his first name! Actually installed the existing boiler & central heating 14 years ago but didn't think he was available... but now he is! Lives in Basingstoke.

 

[Blackspaven]

Okay, so the fitter is looking into price difference between the Comfort 2 I'm possibly having and the FW100 weather compensating system, which looks quite likely I may switch to, but...

...the brick insulation in my house ain't bad but not great: it's a victorian house which can't be cavity insulated cos of the rubbish the builders shoved into it 120 years ago. So does that make a difference to that type of controller? Only asking as I've read on an other thread it can be an issue in a flat. I get how it works, just wondering if my house can intrinsically knacker it's worth!

Any thoughts?

 

[newcastle phill]

Yes - anyone got a shotgun

 

[Howsie]

Weather compensation is right in every circumstance and should be mandatory. It will benefit every installation.

 

[Scott_D]

Post the winning quote unk:

 

[oz-plumber]

Weather compensation is right in every circumstance and should be mandatory. It will benefit every installation.

Except on UFH.

I have to disconnect one this week because the customer is complaining that the floor temperature is not warm enough.
Can't explain to the customer the benefits of having weather compensation.
They just want warm floors all the time.

Their gas bill versus our planet - and my sanity.

 

[Blackspaven]

Newcastle Phil, you can catch the trigger with your toe if you try hard enough.

Reason I'm asking is cos the guy fitting it hasn't installed one before and therefore can't advise on it as HE doesn't know, but thanks for the advise, as long as there's no issues with my old house itself I may well go for it, it does seems almost like common sense. (when I asked him, he said probably only 5% of plumbers have installed them but 100% of them then rate them highly)

Phil... Good luck in the championship next year.

 

[Howsie]

Why doesn't it work on UFH?

 

[Blackspaven]

Ooh, just had an interesting conversation with a tech bloke at WB about the FW100 weather compensating controller, see what you guys think of this:

I said I had a Victorian house which can't be cavity filled and is a bit nippy at times, the heat insulation isn't great but managable, and he said don't get the weather compensating module cos it'll never reach warm enough temps. Said the installer will set the heat curve for it to work to in any specific house but it'll take the outside temp and not compensate for the potentially low temp inside so 10 degrees outside will only give you about 40 degrees, hand/luke warm kicking out the boiler. There's no thermostat with that bit of kit. Said straight out, don't bother, go for the Comfort 2 cos it's got an internal thermostat instead and will work the boiler in relation to the inside temp and give a better result.

Food for thought?

 

[Howsie]

Not really. He's wrong but that's not the first time I've heard rubbish from them. Give Viessmann, ATAG or Vaillant a call and see how different the response is.

 

[oz-plumber]

Why doesn't it work on UFH?

It does work.

I just can't explain to the customer that due to higher outdoor temperatures the boiler heats the water to a lower temperature - hence lower temperature floors.

I am dealing with Eastern European's - can't tell them anything

 

[Howsie]

Say no more.

 

[oz-plumber]

Did you explain to the person that you also would like and internal thermostat as well.

I think he misunderstood your request, to the point of, having the system run off the weather compensation thermostat only