BTSC has gone into Administration

[Dan]

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/p...c-has-gone-into-administration.html#post50899

 

[fuzzy]

Just read the blog, i canniot believe some of the comments, all seems a bit scary to me, they escorted someone off the premises because they complained!!!!

 

[Dan]

I heard that too. I'm sure the tough markets at the moment will help make the good ones better and should get rid of most of the not so good ones.

 

[Puddle]

There was a story the other day about lots of training centers,not just plumbing,being in trouble due to Barclays bank cutting back on re training loans,apparently they were a market leader in this field,teamed up with lots of centers and have just pulled the plug on finance side

 

[fuzzy]

surely if they had a proven track record and fee payers coming though the door they would not close down regardless of the banks?

 

[oldplumber]

theres no point in training people to work in the building business if homes arent being built, and as the banks still arent lending to the housing market, the training market is going to collapse soon thereafter. Banks will just stop supporting areas that are at risk in their minds and call in the loans, which normally become renewable each year, so the companies cant find the money and go down. Well donethe banks, who keep paying bonuses to their workers for doing so well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[david williams]

the trainers are going out of buisines because people have realised that most of these courses do not make you a plumber and there are no jobs for those who they have trained

 

[fuzzy]

the trainers are going out of buisines because people have realised that most of these courses do not make you a plumber and there are no jobs for those who they have trained

so there are not enough people doing the courses? isnt that the real issue?

 

[Puddle]

A lot of the people retraining would get finance from the college to cover course fees,paying back when they start new career,this finance was suppled by banks ect through the training center,less some commission,Barclays being a main player,this they have stopped doing,as said above probably as trainees are finding it are to pay back in these hard times

 

[newbie1]

maybe the penny has finally dropped that an intensive course costing thousands for a trade that is struggling is poor financial sense
yet still people come on here posting what do you think of train for this or train for that and earn 70000 a year after just 9 weeks
there is no shortage of trades people now and little or no chance of these newly qualified fast trackers even earning enough to cover the course costs and set up cost to go self employed
this isnt a rant but if people cant even use a search button what hope have they of becoming a tradesperson

 

[johnmcginty]

These courses were about £7000 from ten weeks on 6129. When the recession hit they dropped it massively down to about £3000 , It seems as though there was an inevitable lag in the boom to bust for the companies that jumped at training people at this £7000 price tag. Then when they realised it was now not commercially viable due to people not having any money to afford this , and the fact that it was commercial banks underwriting the career development loans which were now demanding ludicrous interest, the demand for such courses has not dropped but the lovely price tags that the training centres were once lavishing has diminished proportionally. These training centres are in it for the money ( like any business ) they don't give a toss if they are overcrowding the market, after all they aren't plumbers anymore. It was just a matter of time before we saw them struggle as they were a business model which initially capitalised on the crunch........Now who's feeling it ? not me I'm still in business, It might sound harsh to some but it is a good thing and will be a small stepping stone to stabalising this fragile industry.

 

[fuzzy]

maybe the penny has finally dropped that an intensive course costing thousands for a trade that is struggling is poor financial sense
yet still people come on here posting what do you think of train for this or train for that and earn 70000 a year after just 9 weeks
there is no shortage of trades people now and little or no chance of these newly qualified fast trackers even earning enough to cover the course costs and set up cost to go self employed
this isnt a rant but if people cant even use a search button what hope have they of becoming a tradesperson

There are exceptions, some people have made it work. But how many get lucky? 10 percent at best, i wouldnt gamble £9k on a horse with a 10% chance of winning

 

[Dan]

There are exceptions, some people have made it work. But how many get lucky? 10 percent at best, i wouldnt gamble £9k on a horse with a 10% chance of winning

That's a good way of putting it.

I think if you have some doubt about 'you' not being able to carry out the course and be pretty confident at doing your new job, then you'd know this before you parted cash - some people just have 'it' and many people just don't.

If you're good with your hands, and have a bit of business sense, and don't mind long hours and a bit of a battle going through your first year - then you should be okay.

 

[fuzzy]

That's a good way of putting it.

I think if you have some doubt about 'you' not being able to carry out the course and be pretty confident at doing your new job, then you'd know this before you parted cash - some people just have 'it' and many people just don't.

If you're good with your hands, and have a bit of business sense, and don't mind long hours and a bit of a battle going through your first year - then you should be okay.

i am delighted some people can make it work for them, but in reality those who will make it will need alot of sacrifices in time and money. If they have the will they will make it but all plumbers are doing on here is spelling out the reality, its not negative or aimed at putting people off, just making them realise what they are letting theirselves into

 

[indigo]

I witnessed a trainee being kicked of the course for parking his car in the visitors
area. The person who kicked him of the course there and then was the security guard. GREAT PITY. BTSC had excellent facilities and trainers but the management were ruthless.

 

[fuzzy]

I witnessed a trainee being kicked of the course for parking his car in the visitors
area. The person who kicked him of the course there and then was the security guard. GREAT PITY. BTSC had excellent facilities and trainers but the management were ruthless.

That sounds like some form of American bible cult taking full control! scary

 

[WHPES]

It's just a natural result of the downturn in the building trade and a result of fear factor of the recession. The demand has dropped right off for all trades, and the people wanting refurbishments and new bathrooms etc simply either do not have the money or are too nervous about their own jobs to splash out. Established plumbers are finding it hard enough at the moment so new entrants have even less chance of success.

The training centres jumped on the back of the boom in the business, and like the rest of the trades are suffering.

There is a knock-on effect with suppiers as well. As we all know, Plumb Center has closed loads of branches due to downturn in trade. My local merchants has shed half the staff and two years ago you used to have to queue to get served and now you are often the only customer in.

All those Polish plumbers seem to have disappeared too.

On the other hand, don't knock the people who go on the short courses with no experience - gives us plenty of work putting their jobs right after they have finished!

 

[northstar]

Where are they based?

 

[northstar]

manchester is still trading? very confused

 

[fuzzy]

non of this adds up, they still have a full website going?

 

[bcp]

There is nothing illegal with a company ceasing trading and then re-inventing itself under a different name. It is an often used 'trick' to legally default on creditors to avoid paying debts. It IS ILLEGAL however to continue trading whilst the directors are fully aware that their company is insolvent. They are liable to prosecution and I respectfully suggest that anyone caught up in this scenario, probe the trading whilst insolvent issue, to gain any recourse to lost funds. Similarly, it is law that any Director of any UK based company, must disclose his or her correct and up to date address. Failure to do so is a criminal (READ THE WORDS - CRIMINAL) offence. The BTSC boys are being very clever. You have to play them at their own game and know the law. This in no way addresses any moral issues. I merely state fact and I also state that I have no involvement whatsoever in the BTSC issues. I'm just old fashioned with a conscience - I hate to see anyone being taken for a ride or ripped off.

 

[WHPES]

You can always do a web check here for status:
WebCHeck - Select and Access Company Information

If they default on providing accounts and returns by the due dates, Companies House will investigate.

It is also worth contactoing their plumbers merhcants as they will probably have unpaid accounts with them.

 

[fuzzy]

how do we know for sure that they have gone into administration? if they are still trading you would presume they are still going wouldnt we?

 

[WHPES]

The website means nothing - maybe the hosting service has been paid in advance.

The company may not have been forced into administration yet if the creditors have not taken action so far. Alternatively if the problems was just down to cashflow, a liquidator may have kept it operating in order to sell as a going concern.

 

[fuzzy]

ive been told the centre in manchester has been shut down, is this the case? anyone on the course at the moment who can say its still going or not?

 

[Lakesdweller]

I'm on the course in manchester at the moment and it has not shut down. Apparently there is a new owner who is trying to put right some of the problems caused by the previous management. They seem to be asking for a lot more input from the staff and taking on new ideas. There seems to be a plan to do Electrical training there now, they even have a new addition to the signwork on the building to indicate the fact. Btsc have great facilities but the way some of us trainees have been treated in the past really is out of order. I paid around 8 grand for what was supposed to be a flexible course but I'm now looking at having to pay over £300 for each of my 2 remaining modules. A lot of the bad publicity got back to prospective trainees and that appears to be why many did not take up the course, hence no trainees and hence very little money coming through the company.

 

[fuzzy]

Is it busy lakesdweller?

 

[Scottwood75]

Its true and at the same time it isnt true.

That link is from 2007. and I signed up with btsc chessington in 2008 and has just completed my level 3 tech cert, unvented hot water and water regs this year. And when I say this year I mean a few weeks ago I did My Unvented and water regs.

 

[fuzzy]

so its still running, why do people say it isnt?

 

[Scottwood75]

so its still running, why do people say it isnt?

Because like I said, its a bit of a funny one, btsc has gone under, but btsc uk is what is now trading.

 

[fuzzy]

Because like I said, its a bit of a funny one, btsc has gone under, but btsc uk is what is now trading.

so its just carrying on?

 

[oldplumber]

would you hand over your money to this company?

 

[fuzzy]

not personaly but many people have, they fall for the sales pitch and promise of £1,000's

 

[aceservicing]

Agree with you all . What the sun didn't say male prostitute £200,00 pa tax free or reporter £150,00 with fringe benifits

 

[david williams]

why does anyone believe the claims of these companies.go on any website who advertise plumbing vacancies average now between £18000, to £26000, and underneath the jobs list ads from training companies saying train for 12 weeks and earn £40000,to £60000,well if you cant work it out that you have no chance then waste your money,last week i saw an advert for a plumber they wanted to pay £8,79 an hour,there are now too many fully trained plumbers scratching for work.

 

[peachy keen]

I did the 6129 level 2 at btsc a few months ago. I can see a lot of negative comments on here. But I found that I got exactly what I paid for. The trainers were really helpful and the facilities were top class. It was a lot of hard work and was very intensive, at times it was a struggle to keep up not coming from a trade background but I got there. I'm looking forward to completing my level 3 there when my work allows me time to.

 

[fuzzy]

hi, are you not going to do the nvq2?

 

[kay-jay]

he will be fuzzy, BTSC throw it in as part of the course. if he can find a placement or generate enough work privately they will arrange assessment visits for him.

 

[peachy keen]

Yes I will be doing my NVQ2. I want to get my Level 3 6129 done first though. My understanding of it is that the NVQ is to show my comptentcy in the workplace, so there is no additional learning as such. So i want to improve my knowledge first by doing level 3 and then i can do my NVQ's after that. I'm just waiting for my current contract to finish so I can carry on and do my Level 3. really looking forward to it.

 

[fuzzy]

there are some blogs and posts on other forums suggesting btsc manchester has been closed. anyone shed any light?

 

[kay-jay]

yep i beleive so, i heard from one of the trainers there, that it was on the cards about 3 weeks ago.

basically they just were not getting any new entrants so from a business point of view it became an exercise in spending and not making money, so it shut.

 

[fuzzy]

yep i beleive so, i heard from one of the trainers there, that it was on the cards about 3 weeks ago.

basically they just were not getting any new entrants so from a business point of view it became an exercise in spending and not making money, so it shut.

read a blog i found by simply googling, it said that the manchester branch was btsc europe and not btsc uk. although they were the same company they had been split, think they may even have had same owners? maybe somebody can clarify?

so if the case manchester shuts the other centre does not have to honour anything as by rights they are a different company

apparently they have been removing stuff for a while as they were seaking new premises, others suggested this was misleading and was only to ensure they could remove items without suspicion as they knew they were closing down

If this is true were does this leave people? can they get money back, continue with courses somewhere else, or would they have to pay?

There have been many people trained there, worked there or even still there, its interesting to hear peoples views. Maybe even a current employee/owner could put us straight on the facts please, i guess it could help a lot of people

 

[kay-jay]

i think peoples only option in terms of legal redress is to contact the receivers with details of what btsc owe them, and they will each receive a pittance from the remaining assets (if there are any)

and yes as it was a seperate registered business the other one has absolutely no liability whatsoever to honour any existing contracts. it remains to be seen whether they will at least offer continued training down in chessington for any displaced students.

yes the owners are the same. a chap named brian wall. before getting into the plumbing sector he did the same thing with 'want to become a estate agent? earn upto £££££££ by sitting on your bum for 6 weeks'

think that went belly up as well

 

[fuzzy]

i think peoples only option in terms of legal redress is to contact the receivers with details of what btsc owe them, and they will each receive a pittance from the remaining assets (if there are any)

and yes as it was a seperate registered business the other one has absolutely no liability whatsoever to honour any existing contracts. it remains to be seen whether they will at least offer continued training down in chessington for any displaced students.

yes the owners are the same. a chap named brian wall. before getting into the plumbing sector he did the same thing with 'want to become a estate agent? earn upto £££££££ by sitting on your bum for 6 weeks'

think that went belly up as well

i wonder if a good living has been made prior to going 'belly up'?

 

[kay-jay]

undoubtedly! the guy is chauffer driven in a bentley

 

[fuzzy]

undoubtedly! the guy is chauffer driven in a bentley

how do people who are caught up in the shut down feel about this

 

[kay-jay]

i bumped into the guy who used to teach at btsc at the renewables roadshow yesterday at the reebok stadium and he said that after the first btsc closing down scare that started this thread that the owner brian wall sold it to another outfit and that is why it has a different name,.


don't think theres much any of the half completed students can do though whoever the owner

 

[Mebo1]

BTSC apparently have done this before, they take peoples money go into receivership then open up under another BTSC name. BTSC UK, BTSC Europe etc avoid them like the plague

 

[bdmdave]

anyone with barclays finance.tell barclays that btsc has gone in administration and you havent finished the course.my friend who started with,he had his interest dropped and got 2000 pounds because they couldnt find a place to finish the course.
they wouldnt do it for me because my cousin was my creditor and they they said that the deal was with my cousin and not me.it took them a month to come to that conclusion.i think because we paid the loan off before the interest came,they needed to find a way out of it. please try it you have nothing to lose

 

[petertaylor]

Sorry guys, as a person that has worked for them a while ago and was asked if this lot were still in business I am just checking up, by the way there is no Brian Wall - when you complain it is to a B. Wall as in "complain to a Brick Wall", the owner thinks it's funny see.