Advice Appreciated Please

[cr0ft]

Hi all. We bought a Mira Flight 1200x900 low profile shower tray and a Twyford Outfit 1200 sliding door enclosure with 900 side panel for an en-suite we were supposed to have finished on Friday.

Tray has been correctly installed, i.e. butted up to the walls in the corner of the room. Shower panels have been fitted around the tray, projecting from the walls 12.5mm with the adhesive behind them. Both walls are square and plumb so no issue with adjustment at all on this one.

Long story short, the Twyford Outfit 1200 sliding door and side panel have a corner post that join them together. When the corner post is fitted to the end of the sliding door it results in the side panel sitting just off the edge of the tray. This is even with the sliding door pushed fully back into the wall profile. The sliding door part of the enclosure is plumb with the wall profile so we know that this isn't the issue.

I have emailed PlumbNation who have stated that as the enclosure and tray are from different manufacturers this is tough luck on our behalf and we will have to stump the full cost of the enclosure. There was no way of knowing it would not fit prior to opening it as it required assembly before installation. We have confirmed with Twyford themselves that it's all been installed properly.

I bought this in my own name but for our business so am I right in thinking here that I have some protection in law in this case? To me it's a reasonable expectation that a 1200x900 enclosure should fit a 1200x900 tray. I am aware there can sometimes be adjustment issues but there are none in this case. It just doesn't fit!

Any advice appreciated, their initial email is completely refusing a refund and I don't want to get shirty without knowing where I stand.

Cheers,

Keiran.

 

[SimonG]

Only had it once 'adjusted' the wall profile with an angle grinder. Some of the doors and side panels dont adjust at the corner which is a bit of a chew sometimes.

 

[mountainman]

Hi Kieran
The easiest way to save your sanity would be to get the enclosure manufacturers to look at it, they should either agree that the frame is faulty (I've had that happen) or its incorrectly fitted.
Either way ought to solve your problem at little or no cost.

 

[cr0ft]

Hi Kieran
The easiest way to save your sanity would be to get the enclosure manufacturers to look at it, they should either agree that the frame is faulty (I've had that happen) or its incorrectly fitted.
Either way ought to solve your problem at little or no cost.

Cheers. Adjusting the wall profiles isn't an option in this case as the enclosure fits over the wall profiles on the outsides as opposed to slides into it. Same for the corner posts.

The lad who fitted it has walked through how he fitted it with the manufacturer's technical helpline and they have confirmed it's correct.

We've had to buy another one (Lakes Bathrooms one) so we can get the matter resolved ASAP as we have £7k tied up in the project.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Get the manufacturers in to see what they say get them to look at it. Using a tech help over the phone doesn't show them tho.
I would imagine you have some consumer rights .

 

[Ray Stafford]

I would imagine you have some consumer rights .

He isn't a consumer, its a business to business sale. No consumer rights, just law of contract.

 

[hammers4spanner]

So I'm that case then croft will get nothing back

 

[Ray Stafford]

So I'm that case then croft will get nothing back

Not necessarily, but I think he would be better to pursue the "goodwill" angle than stand on consumer rights that don't apply to trade sales.

 

[cr0ft]

Ray,

Would it matter that it was bought in my name as opposed to the business' name? I.E the invoice is made out to me personally but delivered to our customer address. Just want to know where I stand before I call them.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Ray,

Would it matter that it was bought in my name as opposed to the business' name? I.E the invoice is made out to me personally but delivered to our customer address. Just want to know where I stand before I call them.

Its a tricky one Keiran.

It certainly wouldn't hurt, and they may not be aware of the finer points of the law.

Under normal circumstances, adults of sound mind are deemed to be equally capable of entering into contracts. However, the law recognises that traders who operate in the same field every day have an inbuilt advantage over consumers who may transact only rarely in that sector. For example, you might buy a car once every few years, but the car dealer is selling cars every day, and therefore has an advantage over you in forming the contract.

This inequality of knowledge is compensated for by consumer rights legislation that is skewed in favour of the consumer, against the trader.

In this case, I think a judge would take the view that a) since you were buying it for resale and b) whoever's name is on the invoice, the purchaser is not disadvantaged by lack of knowledge in the way that the drafters of consumer law forsaw, this is a trade sale, not a consumer sale.

However, as I say, whether the customer service staff at Plumbnation would be aware of that distinction is a different question. However, since they are a subsiduary of the mighty Travis Perkins, their legal department will be fully aware.

Hopefully, this can be sorted out by goodwill.

 

[Shower Engineer]

Very small adjustment on that enclosure, 1172-1200. Makes it virtually impossible to install it correctly on a 1200mm tray.
You may not get very far wth Twyfords, they might say that it is suitable for use depending how the tray is installed and of course it would be fine for a wet room but no harm in trying.
May be too late now but on most sliders you can reduce the length of the top and bottom rails using a fine toothed hacksaw, normally needs to be done on the door closing side, see drawing below where I have highlighted the cuts in red. Check before you do this that doing so will not cause a problem elsewhere, will it still screw together etc....
The door opening width on this enclosure is 465mm so you could easily cut off 20mm and still be ok. You will of course invalidate the warranty on the door but who would notice?
Hope this helps....

 

[cr0ft]

Very small adjustment on that enclosure, 1172-1200. Makes it virtually impossible to install it correctly on a 1200mm tray.
You may not get very far wth Twyfords, they might say that it is suitable for use depending how the tray is installed and of course it would be fine for a wet room but no harm in trying.
May be too late now but on most sliders you can reduce the length of the top and bottom rails using a fine toothed hacksaw, normally needs to be done on the door closing side, see drawing below where I have highlighted the cuts in red. Check before you do this that doing so will not cause a problem elsewhere, will it still screw together etc....
The door opening width on this enclosure is 465mm so you could easily cut off 20mm and still be ok. You will of course invalidate the warranty on the door but who would notice?
Hope this helps....

View attachment 26137

Thanks a lot for this. I do believe it will work. We've already ordered the new enclosure from Williams but to be honest there is a good chance I can use a 1200 sliding door that's boxed up in the future whereas there is no chance of me being able to sell this again. We have a chopsaw that will cut this rather nicely with a fine metal blade too.

 

[cr0ft]

Its a tricky one Keiran.

It certainly wouldn't hurt, and they may not be aware of the finer points of the law.

Under normal circumstances, adults of sound mind are deemed to be equally capable of entering into contracts. However, the law recognises that traders who operate in the same field every day have an inbuilt advantage over consumers who may transact only rarely in that sector. For example, you might buy a car once every few years, but the car dealer is selling cars every day, and therefore has an advantage over you in forming the contract.

This inequality of knowledge is compensated for by consumer rights legislation that is skewed in favour of the consumer, against the trader.

In this case, I think a judge would take the view that a) since you were buying it for resale and b) whoever's name is on the invoice, the purchaser is not disadvantaged by lack of knowledge in the way that the drafters of consumer law forsaw, this is a trade sale, not a consumer sale.

However, as I say, whether the customer service staff at Plumbnation would be aware of that distinction is a different question. However, since they are a subsiduary of the mighty Travis Perkins, their legal department will be fully aware.

Hopefully, this can be sorted out by goodwill.

Will just buy the items we know that work together from you next time Ray Have never gone wrong with fitting a Lakes Bathrooms enclosure on a Mira Flight tray yet. God knows why I decided to change!

 

[tolly]

I like lakes enclosures too...either them or simpsons.


I fitted an eastbrook cotswold 1200 slider last week, absolute rubbish. Normally eastbrook stuff is quite good but this was terrible, i assume its there cheapest range...5mm glass.

 

[tolly]

Cotswold vulcan to be specific

 

[cr0ft]

Cotswold vulcan to be specific

Quick update. Cut the top and bottom rails down by 15mm today on our chop saw and it all fitted together no probs. Shower engineer you sir are a legend, would never have thought of doing that.

 

[Gray0689]

Lakes are terrible

 

[Shower Engineer]

Quick update. Cut the top and bottom rails down by 15mm today on our chop saw and it all fitted together no probs. Shower engineer you sir are a legend, would never have thought of doing that.

Result!

 

[cr0ft]

Yes, apart from the reversible rollers on the door. Went to unscrew them last night thinking we are done now. One of the bolt heads that screws in to secure the door rollers was malformed and we couldn't undo it. Tried drilling it out and everything. End result, still not done and waiting on a spare part from Twyfords. Much better than a new door though.