What to charge as a subby on hourly rate

[brum]

Hi guys have been on me arse for the last few weeks approached a builder who I worked for through my previous employer,
We all got on great,Anyway he gave me work on this house 2 bathrooms a bit of heating tiling and walls out walls in alterations he asked for my rate I know my ex boss charged him £25 per hour so I said £22.50.
He came back today after I done 4 days and said he can do £20 per hour,he will pay for all consumables and also diesel
up my van ,this builder has a lot of work and payment will be in my bank every week.
I think im on to a winner whats your thoughts?

 

[BLOD]

Go with it

 

[turnpin]

Seems reasonable to me especially if things are quite as Blod says go with it....regards Turnpinunk:

 

[mfgs]

Sounds alright to me, especially if there is a fair volume of work.

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

Sounds alright, he's supplying the materials the fuel and the consumables (that include lunch) on site at half 7 in the van on the way home at half 4?!!

 

[Masood]

£800 a week and your diesel paid for is not a bad number, especially if it's regular work...

 

[Ray Stafford]

I'll go against the grain.

Stick out for your £22.50.

He wants to use you. If you are good and reliable and dont get many leaks and promptly fix the few that you do get, the difference that makes is worth far more to him than £2.50 per hour.

And when there is a difficult situation, and you disagree over something, you have established yourself as a man who knows his own expertise and worth.

Dont undervalue yourself.

 

[Ray Stafford]

If you work 48 weeks a year and get 40 billable hours per week (fat chance) and have good health and fortune to work for 45 years, that 86,400 hours that you have to sell.

Unlike me, you can't phone a manufacturer and get them to send you more hours. You can hire someone else's hours, but thats another story.

If I had a finite stock of just 86,400 of any saleable product, I would want to make sure I got top dollar for every bleddy one.

 

[CES]

I'm with Ray, if he paid your employer £25 previously then he can afford £25. I would expect a customer to pay for consumables and fuel anyway as they are usually costs attributed to your invoice.
just a wee bit advice, as far as friendly banter goes on the job, when it comes to money that should stop at the office door, the slightest disagreement on a job will let you know exactly where you stand. All things said though, I hope it works out for you.

 

[brum]

Sounds alright, he's supplying the materials the fuel and the consumables (that include lunch) on site at half 7 in the van on the way home at half 4?!!

No mate nae lunch but a pint after work

 

[Masood]

I'll go against the grain.

Stick out for your £22.50.

He wants to use you. If you are good and reliable and dont get many leaks and promptly fix the few that you do get, the difference that makes is worth far more to him than £2.50 per hour.

And when there is a difficult situation, and you disagree over something, you have established yourself as a man who knows his own expertise and worth.

Dont undervalue yourself.

No disagreement with the last bit - never undervalue yourself. But for the sake of £2.50/hour or £100/week before tax, showing himself to be someone willing to negotiate rather than take the hard line can be very valuable.

The builder is paying for diesel, which will offset a decent chunk of that £100. Regular, predictable work when the OP has been struggling is also not to be sniffed at. Weekly, on-time payments instead of chasing monthly invoices is worth money - the time spent chasing payment is still the OP's time and has intrinsic value. So the "loss" is even smaller.

Pride is great but it doesn't put food on the table.

 

[Ray Stafford]

No disagreement with the last bit - never undervalue yourself. But for the sake of £2.50/hour or £100/week before tax, showing himself to be someone willing to negotiate rather than take the hard line can be very valuable.

The builder is paying for diesel, which will offset a decent chunk of that £100. Regular, predictable work when the OP has been struggling is also not to be sniffed at. Weekly, on-time payments instead of chasing monthly invoices is worth money - the time spent chasing payment is still the OP's time and has intrinsic value. So the "loss" is even smaller.

Pride is great but it doesn't put food on the table.

All fair points, and its easy for me to be brave with a steady job and a full belly.

But having said that, there are lots of variables in a negotiation other than price. Or you can negotiate price, but on a time limit. "I know I am worth £22.50 an hour, but I understand that I need to prove that to you, and since you are being reasonable I will work for a month at £20 an hour, on the understanding that this is a temporary discount until I have established that."

The most important thing in the art of negotiation is setting the framework. If you start a conversation with a builder by saying "so, this is the bit where we negotiate, and I make you laugh by demanding £50 per hour, and you insult me by offering £25, why don't we both save our breath and agree on £37.50 now" - then you have established the frame - somewhere between £25 and £50. You may end up in the lower end of the frame, but still more than if you let him define the frame as being from £20 to £22.50.

There is tons of research on this - google "framing and anchoring". Negotiation is a combination of science and art which rewards study and practice in the same way as any other area of expertise.

 

[Masood]

All fair points, and its easy for me to be brave with a steady job and a full belly.

But having said that, there are lots of variables in a negotiation other than price. Or you can negotiate price, but on a time limit. "I know I am worth £22.50 an hour, but I understand that I need to prove that to you, and since you are being reasonable I will work for a month at £20 an hour, on the understanding that this is a temporary discount until I have established that."

The most important thing in the art of negotiation is setting the framework. If you start a conversation with a builder by saying "so, this is the bit where we negotiate, and I make you laugh by demanding £50 per hour, and you insult me by offering £25, why don't we both save our breath and agree on £37.50 now" - then you have established the frame - somewhere between £25 and £50. You may end up in the lower end of the frame, but still more than if you let him define the frame as being from £20 to £22.50.

There is tons of research on this - google "framing and anchoring". Negotiation is a combination of science and art which rewards study and practice in the same way as any other area of expertise.

Of course, and this was largely my point - that this scenario is about more than the hourly rate. There are sweeteners thrown in by the builder (fuel, payment schedule, stability), which offset the rate reduction.

Perhaps not a formally set out framework for negotiations, but informally that's exactly what's happened IMO.

 

[Ray Stafford]

A great article here on when to make the first offer in a negotiation, and the powerful effect of anchoring.

 

[Millsy 82]

I would take that quite happily the one thing that I would say to him is if he knew the price to start off with why he waited 4 days to negotiate price so I would say I'm not happy about that. But for £20 a day and plenty of work I would take that straight away.

 

[Masood]

I would take that quite happily the one thing that I would say to him is if he knew the price to start off with why he waited 4 days to negotiate price so I would say I'm not happy about that. But for £20 a day and plenty of work I would take that straight away.

At £20 a day come work for me mate. I'll keep you busy 365 days a year. Double shifts if you want it... Start 1st September. What's your shirt size for uniform?

 

[Millsy 82]

At £20 a day come work for me mate. I'll keep you busy 365 days a year. Double shifts if you want it... Start 1st September. What's your shirt size for uniform?

Haha. I meant losing £20 a day

 

[oz-plumber]

I can't believe what I am reading - no offence, but I charge out 3rd year apprentices at a greater rate than that
And honestly - that sub contractor rate was the mark about 15 years ago over here.

Why don't you try and up sell yourself for at least what your previous boss was charging.
I would even try to up sell yourself the 2.50 the builder tried to reduce your amount by.

He is saving at least 20% on the materials by supplying them himself.

Never look a gift horse in the mouth - even from the horses point of view

 

[Millsy 82]

I can't believe what I am reading - no offence, but I charge out 3rd year apprentices at a greater rate than that
And honestly - that sub contractor rate was the mark about 15 years ago over here.

Why don't you try and up sell yourself for at least what your previous boss was charging.
I would even try to up sell yourself the 2.50 the builder tried to reduce your amount by.

He is saving at least 20% on the materials by supplying them himself.

Never look a gift horse in the mouth - even from the horses point of view

Bg were advertising round me for subbies £20-22 per hour on installs and they will be very optimistic about times so they get more for their money. They will not put diesel in your van so that will knock it down more. So £20 an hour plus diesel is not bad ( I wouldn't charge private customers that but if someone is going to give me a lot of work then I would especially as I have recently set up for my self so that could be a nice little earner whilst the private jobs pick up)

Around me most places are now paying around that and if you don't do it someone else will, it's not so much about selling yourself short it's about a large number of plumbers going after fewer jobs which will naturally bring prices down.

 

[Masood]

I can't believe what I am reading - no offence, but I charge out 3rd year apprentices at a greater rate than that
And honestly - that sub contractor rate was the mark about 15 years ago over here.

Why don't you try and up sell yourself for at least what your previous boss was charging.
I would even try to up sell yourself the 2.50 the builder tried to reduce your amount by.

He is saving at least 20% on the materials by supplying them himself.

Never look a gift horse in the mouth - even from the horses point of view

Meanwhile the OP has been struggling to earn enough on private jobs, and £800/week is pretty decent money...

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Sounds ok. Good on you

 

[brum]

Thanks guys done 27 hrs only 3 hrs was plumbing other hours consisted of walls out and replaced floors out and replaced basic joiner work and laboring.
In my opinion better to get £20 for 27 hrs than £22.50 for 3.
I am not a trade snob and will muck in where needed ,Builders prefer multi skilled tradesmen saves them hassle.
Will still run in my other work and also fulfill my plan of becoming oftec and get more involved in oil boiler servicing..thanks again guys..brum