Water coming in flue pipe after boiler installation

[James2218]

Hello,

British Gas installed our new boiler. After stormy weather it became apparent that water gets into the flue pipe. It has an opening to allow air to get in. Unfortunately, it also lets in rain water, which is driven in by the wind. British Gas so far have said it is a fault with the manufacturers pipes, and that pottertons do not manufacture anything that will prevent water from being blown into this opening.

Does anyone please have any experience in dealing with this issue? I'd be very grateful for any information. At this rate the wall will be severely damaged. We already have to have dehumidifying machines on 24 hours a day!

 

[wnjswozo]

switch boiler off,get gassafe engineer to have a look.your discrpition of fault is to vague,why do you need de humidifyer.the flues are designed to fall back to allow condesate water produced, to run throu boiler and out vai con pipe

 

[James2218]

switch boiler off,get gassafe engineer to have a look.your discrpition of fault is to vague,why do you need de humidifyer.the flues are designed to fall back to allow condesate water produced, to run throu boiler and out vai con pipe

We need a humidifier because rain water is getting into the boiler and then into the walls. The walls are damp. The humidifier is in at the request of British Gas, who have been out to see about the problem, but don't seem to be able to solve it.

 

[stevetheplumber]

We need a humidifier because rain water is getting into the boiler and then into the walls. The walls are damp. The humidifier is in at the request of British Gas, who have been out to see about the problem, but don't seem to be able to solve it.

sounds like the water is running back to the wall as the flue falls back wards
on condensing boilers but if wall is made good surely it shouldnt penetrate any rain going into the flue would be dealt with like condensate
unless its getting sucked in the air duct but that shouldnt leak
love to hear more details of this ? pictures?
i think i would contact pottertons see what they say failing that i would be asking BG for a different boiler as this is obviously not fit for pupose
your consumer rights lie with BG

 

[Puddle]

As you are in British Gas hands,I feel confident all will turn out well

You have to have confidence in our great British Institutions


If I had a pound for every potterton boiler that I have come across with the same problem and had a humidifier next to it ,I would be a.......... ,well I would be a poor man actually,coz never heard or seen the problem before

Must go, jackanory is coming on,its about daddy getting in the boiler manufactorers,explaining the problem and letting them kick bid silly companies back side

 

[Plucky]

I have been called out to job before where boiler had fried the PCB, turned out leaking gutter was chucking water onto flue pipe and it was running down the air inlet into boiler.

fixed gutter and replaced PCB and all was fine.

Have you checked angle of flue is not too steep?

 

[REDSAW]

I have been called out to job before where boiler had fried the PCB, turned out leaking gutter was chucking water onto flue pipe and it was running down the air inlet into boiler.

fixed gutter and replaced PCB and all was fine.

Have you checked angle of flue is not too steep?

3 degrees, a woman in need!
are you sure the brick work is pointed or filled where the pipe enters?.
pull the collar back and take a look.
or tell them to fit a plume kit to change out put direction away from ambient weather. tight asses.

 

[Plucky]

3 degrees, a woman in need!
are you sure the brick work is pointed or filled where the pipe enters?.
pull the collar back and take a look.
or tell them to fit a plume kit to change out put direction away from ambient weather. tight asses.

I dont think it is the outlet side that will be causing the issue here, more likely to be coming in through the outer, inlet, side of the flue. A plume managment kit would not help this.

 

[derrybongo]

Hi James

just wondering if you found the problem with your boiler
it sounded more like a sealing problem between the wall and the flue outlet to me

Derry

 

[ann]

Help, we have the same problem with condenser boiler. We got up this morning, after wind and rain, and found water flooded under the boiler, and still dripping down from the front of the boiler. The flue outside is angled up, so when we get rain with the wind in certain direction it floods in!!

 

[GreenArmy]

Ann, you may need to check where the condense pipe runs. Ive seen installers attach them to rain water downpipes and this time of year the leaves can block the downpipe, so when it rains the downpipe will back up with water and force it back up condense pipe. Ive also seen the same where they are connected to a soil pipe and the drain gets blocked.

 

[ann]

Hi, we have asked our plumber who installed it in the past about this problem, and he said it was just unfortunate that on days that the wind is blowing in a certain direction, with heavy rain, there is nothing he can do about it. When we had it serviced by the manufacturer under guarantee, he ordered a new flue, for us, for our plumber to re-install. But, when we told our plumber, he said it was exactly the same flue that we aready had installed, and that there was no point replacing it, as it wouldn't solve the problem. We will ask him where the condensing pipe is, and where it is running into.

 

[GreenArmy]

Ann, have a look yourself. Its a white plastic pipe coming out the bottom of the boiler. Does it go outside? If so have a look and check its not going into the Guttering downpipe. If it does, have a look to see if the downpipe is blocked by leaves. Its probably not this causing your problem but certainly worth a look.

 

[ann]

Hi, I will ask my husband to have a look. The boiler is situated on the ground floor but is up on the wall. I am wondering, when the water comes in through the flue, why does it not drain away into this pipe. The water drips down from the top of the boiler down the front. Is it possible the condensing pipe is split at the top for it not to drain away, or is it just sheer volume of water entering the flue that the condensing pipe cannot cope with?

My husband has just had a look, and he says that there is water dripping down the white condensing pipe from the top, and that it is not sealed at the point of draining into gutter pipe, but he seems to think the gutter pipe is not blocked in any way.

 

[GreenArmy]

Ok, brilliant the condense pipe can be ruled out.

Hold on a minute! Does the condense pipe enter the downpipe or is it totally separate?

 

[ann]

BTW When I said dripping down the condensing pipe, I meant down the outside of it, not the inside of it.

Ok, brilliant the condense pipe can be ruled out.

Hold on a minute! Does the condense pipe enter the downpipe or is it totally separate?

Yes, it enters into the downpipe.

The water is coming from the top of the boiler where the flue enters it, and runs down the front of the boiler, we can see this when we take the cover off, but the main drips are on the opposite side from the condense pipe, so I don't think its the condensing pipe, but mayb the u shape white plastic pipe the runs from the top of the boiler and connects to the flue outside.

 

[stevetheplumber]

Hi, we have asked our plumber who installed it in the past about this problem, and he said it was just unfortunate that on days that the wind is blowing in a certain direction, with heavy rain, there is nothing he can do about it. When we had it serviced by the manufacturer under guarantee, he ordered a new flue, for us, for our plumber to re-install. But, when we told our plumber, he said it was exactly the same flue that we aready had installed, and that there was no point replacing it, as it wouldn't solve the problem. We will ask him where the condensing pipe is, and where it is running into.

i think a couple of pictures would be a great help here ann then we can advise you better

 

[stevewoods]

I have been a heating engineer for nearly forty years and have never had any trouble with any kind of flue until condensing boilers came on the scene.
We have just installed 51 Glowworm 38 CXi combi's in a block of flats, all with extended horizontal flues, that the manufacturers instructions say, must rise to outside by 44mm per metre, which they do.
When it rains, water runs into the outer flue, air intake, and down the flue back to the boiler and drips out of the case. It also leaks sometimes out of the flue joints as Glowworm flues do not have a seal on the outer pipe, and they are made of steel, so they rust !!!!
We have contacted Glowworm technical who admit that this " can be a problem " but they don't have a solution !!!
Surely it's not rocket science to design a terminal with the air intake facing downwards, with an extended turret so that rain water drips off of the bottom to outside. They could even make a retro-fit unit to click on the end ( like the anti-plume kit does on the inner flue )
So anyone who has this problem, as far as Glowworm are concerned, although I know other boilers have this problem, you're on your own !!!

 

[stevetheplumber]

I have been a heating engineer for nearly forty years and have never had any trouble with any kind of flue until condensing boilers came on the scene.
We have just installed 51 Glowworm 38 CXi combi's in a block of flats, all with extended horizontal flues, that the manufacturers instructions say, must rise to outside by 44mm per metre, which they do.
When it rains, water runs into the outer flue, air intake, and down the flue back to the boiler and drips out of the case. It also leaks sometimes out of the flue joints as Glowworm flues do not have a seal on the outer pipe, and they are made of steel, so they rust !!!!
We have contacted Glowworm technical who admit that this " can be a problem " but they don't have a solution !!!
Surely it's not rocket science to design a terminal with the air intake facing downwards, with an extended turret so that rain water drips off of the bottom to outside. They could even make a retro-fit unit to click on the end ( like the anti-plume kit does on the inner flue )
So anyone who has this problem, as far as Glowworm are concerned, although I know other boilers have this problem, you're on your own !!!

its about time boiler manufacturers were made to give up the cash cow that flue components have become and adopt the sensible 2 inch plastic waste as standar flue like the kestonsit recently cost a customer nearly 400 to get all the bends and extention to get a flue out ,with a keston this would have been under a hundredhats realy anoying is no way to use of cuts from extensions as they only have one socket

 

[ann]

With the last bout of really bad weather, the wind blowing in the direction of our boiler flue, we had rain pouring in, and down the case of our boiler! We had a plumber come and adjust the flue pipe outside, as he thought it was angled up too much. He also said that the pipe inside of the outside the flue pipe was already angled correctly to take back the condensation. We just hope this helps. This has been a problem since we bought the boiler, and when it was under warranty, the engineer was baffled as to why it was happening, but ordered a replacement flue just to see if it would help. Our plumber who originally installed it said it was exactly the same flue that we already had, and there was no use swapping it. The plumber that we called out this morning, is not the plumber that installed our boiler. We are keeping our fingers crossed.

 

[quelsurprise]

Hi there, very similar to Ann we've been having the exact same problem.

I have a Remeha Avanta Plus 28C condensing boiler and for the past 3 days I have had no heat or warm water. This has finally been resolved just this afternoon when an engineer came out to replace the PCB as it was fried.

Saturday night I could hear the rain hitting the bedroom window, and the horizontal flue facing the same direction below. I have had the boiler approx 18months and when the rain and wind blow drive in that direction I have noted a few times water dripping from the bottom of the boiler onto the floor and when i've taken the front off, it was dripping from the pipe connected to the flue. I asked the engineer what I can do about this, he checked the flue, said it was installed correctly and said sadly it's one of those things.

Is there anything I can do to stop this happening again? Can you buy a "rain cap" as such, or some form of protection to put over the flue stop the water blowing into it?

Thanks for any help, its much appreciated. I'm at a loss.

 

[ann]

Thought I would let you know how we have got on. We had another plumber come and have a look at it. He said that the flue outside was angled upwards at quite an angle, and said that he would alter it slightly. He said that the drain inside the flue was angled so that the condensation would run back okay. I am wondering if the rain was too much for the drain to cope with and eventually leaked out through the boiler, but now the flue is not angled so steeply upwards anymore, it has cured it. Watch this space.

 

[oldplumber]

I installed an avanta plus combi recently and the flue had water ingress from a blocked gutter overflowing onto the flue. The houseowner cleared the gutter and this has stopped the problem up to now

 

[jontris]

Was there ever a solution to this problem? I also have a Potterton combi boiler installed in November 2009 and seem to have exactly the same symptoms.

Some posts seem to suggest that Potterton have simply not made provision for rain water trickling back through the flue (ie through the inside, not along the outside) and nothing can be done. That would be a depressing scenario.

 

[Blackcatgas]

Was there ever a solution to this problem? I also have a Potterton combi boiler installed in November 2009 and seem to have exactly the same symptoms.

Some posts seem to suggest that Potterton have simply not made provision for rain water trickling back through the flue (ie through the inside, not along the outside) and nothing can be done. That would be a depressing scenario.

Post number 22

 

[prs1]

All maufacturers have already made provision for this on threr vertical flues,it wouldnt take much would it!
lets face it its not like they charge that much for a boiler is it.
You wouldnt put up with it on yer new ford "sorry sir its only when the wind is blowwing ssw ! Ba5t!!DS

 

[jontris]

Thanks for the replies but I'm still confused. My installer told me that the flue must point upwards a little. This presumably means that water can flow back. I suppose it depends how exposed the flue is and the strength and direction of the rain and wind.

My question: what is supposed to happen to this water? Does it just drip out of the bottom of the boiler, as described in several posts? Or should it get collected and flow safely away down one of the escape pipes?

 

[jontris]

If it's of interest, my researches suggest rain water is getting inside the flue and flowing back into the boiler. On the 'gas side' (ie inner cylinder) that is no problem - it just goes back into the condenser. On the 'air side' (ie outer cylinder) it has nowhere to go and just drips out the bottom. The Potterton technical help line agreed that this could happen. I am pursuing the matter with Potterton as to me this mean that their flue is not fit for purpose. After all, flues must protrude from buildings and it does rain from time to time.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

well tbh i have installed a mixture of potterton performer and golds and have never had this problem the flue is a good design i would strongly suggest this is a installation fault and bg have distorted or broken the rubber seal on the air intake

 

[danielp]

i have had it on a glowworm ultracom its where the outer flue is a butt joint and isnt really a water tight seal

 

[jontris]

Well, it's definitely rain water. This only happens when it's raining. I've also proved it's not coming along the outside of the flue. A cloth tied round the flue as it enters the boiler remains bone dry. It's not coming down the gas side. I've got one of those directional extensions pointing downward. It must be rain water flowing back down the flue on the air side. Properly installed where would this water go?

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Well, it's definitely rain water. This only happens when it's raining. I've also proved it's not coming along the outside of the flue. A cloth tied round the flue as it enters the boiler remains bone dry. It's not coming down the gas side. I've got one of those directional extensions pointing downward. It must be rain water flowing back down the flue on the air side. Properly installed where would this water go?

the water would go to the heat exchanger then down the condensate pipe what potterton is it?

 

[jontris]

OK, so is it the same whether it's the gas side or the air side? Potterton seem to think that water on the air side would just come out the bottom.

I presume they think they've designed the flue so that water couldn't get in but I've tried pouring water on top of it and seen that it can curl inside the vents and drop inside.

It's a Performa 24 HE btw.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

right then,i have installed 156 performas unless the flue elbow seal is damaged or mis aligned there is no way water can come back in,the flue is a good design and i have never had this problem,back to your installer,somethings a miss

 

[jontris]

I'm really grateful for the interest you're taking.

Are you saying that rain water can't come back along the inside of the flue and back into the boiler? Or are you saying that it can come back but it wouldn't drip out of the bottom. Either way you seem to be saying that Potterton have got it wrong about their own boiler.

BTW I have had my installer back and he insisted that the water must be coming along the outside of the flue. I knew it wasn't and I've since proved it.