Urgent advice needed about hot water

[BobbyJoe]

I will test the waters (pun intended) and keep you all posted about how things are going.

 

[joni os]

The static water pressure in the mains supply will be higher than pressure in boiler and rads. Backflow contamination of mains water will only occur when pressure is equal or less. However, mains pressure drops significantly when tap is opened.
The OP mentions that restricting hot water flow by adjusting inlet valve at boiler improves situation. This would keep mains pressure higher, reduce backflow contamination, and is consistent with Masood's hypothesis.
Disconnect fill loop as advised. Hopefully, your condition will improve and your posts have been informative for others.

 

[BobbyJoe]

Thank you I will do as Masood and Joni have suggested as last night for the first time after taking a shower I didn't itch myself to death! I will check the filling loop later today and yesterday once I turned the left side (filling loop) lever to the correct position I also turned the cold water inlet stopcock (black square) fully anti-clockwise which has given me full hot water pressure throughout the flat. The reason for doing this was to assess if this will help or hinder my skin and I will turn the cold water inlet stopcock clockwise whenever I feel the need to for example if my skin gets dry/itchy again because when it was turned more than halfway clockwise I had low hot water pressure but my skin was improving. Only time will tell and I am really hoping the fact the left lever on the filling loop was the problem because it was turned in the wrong position and Masood pointed out that it should have been turned clockwise not anti-clockwise, so lets see what happens and I will keep posting with updates.

 

[BobbyJoe]

Thank you I will do as Masood and Joni have suggested as last night for the first time after taking a shower I didn't itch myself to death. I removed and checked the filling loop and there was no leak in either side of the pipes, also yesterday once I turned the left side (filling loop) lever to the correct position I also turned the cold water inlet stopcock (black square) fully anti-clockwise which has given me very powerful hot water pressure throughout the flat. The reason for doing this was to assess if this will help or hinder my skin and I will turn the cold water inlet stopcock clockwise whenever I feel the need to for example if my skin gets dry/itchy again because when it was turned more than halfway clockwise I had low hot water pressure but my skin was improving. Only time will tell and I am really hoping the fact the left lever on the filling loop was the problem because it was turned in the wrong position and Masood pointed out that it should have been turned clockwise not anti-clockwise, so lets see what happens and I will keep posting with updates.

 

[BobbyJoe]

I checked that there was no leak from both valves which connect to the filling loop would it be safe to remove it from the two valves or must that silver braid stay in place."Remove the braided hose (the U-shaped silver pipe that sits between the two valves)". When I disconnected it at first there was a little water sitting in the pipe not much but I drained it out.

 

[Masood]

I checked that there was no leak from both valves which connect to the filling loop would it be safe to remove it from the two valves or must that silver braid stay in place."Remove the braided hose (the U-shaped silver pipe that sits between the two valves)". When I disconnected it at first there was a little water sitting in the pipe not much but I drained it out.

As long as neither of the valves are dripping, it's best to leave the braided hose off. If either of them is dripping, it needs to be replaced.

 

[BobbyJoe]

Thank you I will take off the braided hose as nothing is leaking or dripping. Out of general interest what is the purpose of the braided hose, why was it in there in the first place and what's the difference when removed?

Thanks

 

[Masood]

Thank you I will take off the braided hose as nothing is leaking or dripping. Out of general interest what is the purpose of the braided hose, why was it in there in the first place and what's the difference when removed?

Thanks

It's there to allow the system to be filled or topped up. Most people are lazy and leave it there, but water regs stipulate that it should be removed when not filling or topping up the system.

 

[BobbyJoe]

I have now removed the filling loop (braided hose) how does that look and is it perfectly safe as I didn't touch the valves they are in the same position as yesterday, thanks.

 

[Masood]

That's fine BobbyJoe. Do let us know whether your skin clears up! Good luck!

 

[BobbyJoe]

Thanks and I will keep you all updated :yesnod:

 

[acecharly]

Have you changed your washing powder at all? I know lots of people whove had bad reactions with some types...just a suggestion as I cant see this is boiler related. If its a combi your domestic hot water is allways fresh and not out of a tank.

 

[BobbyJoe]

Hi could someone tell me which is the correct way the Heating return connection and Heating flow connection should be turned according to the picture because both of these black valves are movable (they move to the right) and I want to make sure they are in the right position thanks

 

[Gasmk1]

bobby joe stop looking fro problems where there isnt one, if the tap handles are inline with the pipe they are on if the are across they are off leave them as they are they are correct

 

[joni os]

Hi could someone tell me which is the correct way the Heating return connection and Heating flow connection should be turned according to the picture because both of these black valves are movable (they move to the right) and I want to make sure they are in the right position thanks View attachment 27951View attachment 27952

Quarter turn anti clockwise open, (Levers in line of pipe). Quarter turn clockwise closed,(levers across line of pipe).
Levers in photo appear to be in open position.

 

[BobbyJoe]

The hot water was okay for the first day but into the second day the same pattern emerged of itchy and skin dry/chapped around ears/eyelids and hands. The only thing which seems to help is when I turn the cold-water inlet stopcock (clockwise) which lessens the hot water pressure in the flat. When I turn it clockwise the hot water pressure is low but my skin feels better so I will keep it in that position because with too much hot water pressure it causes havoc on my skin. The following actions were carried out on the boiler, please let me know if I am missing something because I am going mental:

Filling loop was disconnected
Left side valve of the filling loop was turned to the off position (fully clockwise) as previously it was turned the wrong way around.
The stopcock under the sink turns the cold and hot water on/off in the kitchen and only the hot water in the bathroom on/off.
The cold water in the bathroom is managed by the storage tank in the building because I live in a 4-storey flat and only the council can turn it off.
The boiler is going into its 4rth year (no servicing been done since it was installed/no change of washing powder)
Cold water inlet stopcock is turned almost fully clockwise low hot water pressure however skin is not as dry. The cold-water inlet stopcock on the boiler controls the hot water is that correct because I was running the hot water tap and then turned it on and off using the stopcock so I presume this is right?
The boiler has a wireless thermostat which controls the heating and two modes such as summer time/winter time function, I don't know how to program it properly not sure if this helps.

I think I will need to get a gas engineer/boiler specialist to come and check that everything is in the right place because I don’t think I can live here anymore it isn’t worth the hassle and I know I will lose my deposit but 6 months of painful/peeling skin is enough.

Thank you to everyone your help has been invaluable.

Photos illustrate what the boiler and its components looks like at present.

 

[joni os]

Sorry to hear problem not solved. The one step you can take is to avoid hot water via the boiler for a week, and see if your skin improves. Boil a kettle for your hot water needs, and shower by mixing boiled and cold water in a large bucket and a small jug to pour as you stand in bath. Keep daily notes because, if problem persists, this will help with diagnosis. Try to get knowledgeable, independent assessment of your skin condition, (Practice nurse at your surgery).

 

[BobbyJoe]

Thank you I will give it a try and see what happens and Gasmk1 believe you me I wouldn't be on this forum unless I was really suffering and am not looking for or creating problems but I appreciate your input as of course all of this comes across mind boggling.

I have been seeing my G.P for months who is also baffled and despite the many types of ointments and medication prescribed nothing has helped, he suggested I get the boiler checked out and make sure all the valves are correctly placed etc.... My G.P looked up the type of rash and said it looked like it was similar to that of a 'Fracking rash' caused by gas' as it looks like it is burning off (itches a layer off until you see pink flesh) and said to make sure the central heating water isn't going into the hot water supply and he assumes something hasn't been correctly placed in or is coming in the wrong way in/out.

Therefore I will get an engineer to check it all out any advice or list of criteria the engineer must check just so I know that it has been 100 % assessed correctly as I will need to pay for this.

In the mean time I will improvise in boiling water and will keep a record of that, (thank you Joni os) for that tip as this will help for now.

 

[joni os]

Don't pay for heating engineer until you've eliminated all other casual effects by washing, (bucket and jug), for week. If doctor can then verify improvement in skin condition, ask doctor to write to landlord. With filling loop detached, the primary water in the boiler is totally separated from the domestic hot water supply. Keep an open mind, but work with your doctor to get this resolved.

 

[BobbyJoe]

Will do thanks Joni, out of interest how much would an engineer cost for a call out for this type of situation?
The irony is my landlord is an engineer, I would not be surprised if he installed the boiler himself due to the fact he gave me a non existent plumber number when I asked for the boiler installers detail, he seemed reluctant to provide it and I searched online for the name and number of the plumber nothing came up.

 

[Riley]

Do you have the instructions for the boiler if so there should be a benchmark commissioning certificate in the back of it which will have been completed by the installing engineer

 

[BobbyJoe]

Yes I have the instruction manual which I have been using as guidance as well as the advice of forum users. There is a checklist page at the back which is blank and another page which the engineer is meant to sign/stamp which is also blank, no signed or stamped papers all are blank.
The flat didn't have a boiler in 2013 and it had a gas fire a few years ago and black water tank (now empty/disused) in the storage cupboard but the landlord changed it and got central heating put in along with the boiler. I looked at the pipes in the storage cupboard some have been cut off which probably don't mean anything.

 

[joni os]

Hi BobbyJoe , want to get at cause of your problem but don't want you to spend money with no result. An inspection or service of the boiler is unlikely to give answers. Worse the boiler belongs to your landlord, and having work done to it might not only contravene the terms of your tenancy but could absolve the landlord of his responsibilities. Have patience and if doctor can confirm skin condition improves when using kettle boiled hot water and not hot water from combi. then this is strong circumstantial evidence that combi is to blame. If skin condition persists attention should be focused on cold water supply. In either case the support of your doctor to confirm something at the premises is the probable cause of your condition, should enable you to cancel tenancy, "BY MUTUAL AGREEMENT", and get deposit returned. Keep notes, and confirm all conversations with landlord in writing.

 

[Riley]

Doesn't sound like your boilers been commissioned properly

 

[BobbyJoe]

I have started to use the water from the kitchen tap to clean etc...by boiling it using the kettle. I washed my face with boiled water and mixed it with cold tap water and it had a weird smell to it like bleach.

 

[drip-dry]

Think you are barking up the wrong tree in the wrong forest ,but a very good argument for landlords to get into another business

 

[BobbyJoe]

 

[Jones82]

Closing or altering the valve you mention can't possibly affect the attributes of the water leaving the boiler. An example of this would be running a cold tap, half close the tap, has the attributes or chemical composition of the water changed? No, all you are doing is restricting the flow of water, changing its volume, not its composition.


It is possible that plumbing or heating water could be irritant to your skin. Possibly due to a chemical, perhaps an additive used either to maintain or install the system, being present in the pipes.


However the very fact that you noticed a difference just by adjusting the flow disproves this theory. I'm afraid your symptoms appear to be coincidental, most likely related to a food or animal allergy. Or even brought on by stress?


To absolutely prove this theory, without doubt, take a sample of the hot water and have it tested, you could also ask friends and family to try using the hot water.

 

[BobbyJoe]

12345

 

[SimonG]

67890

 

[BobbyJoe]

First an update of events so far, the good news is I have been using cold water from the kitchen tap and guess what no more cuts on my hands, ears, legs etc.. dry skin is getting better with the rash almost disappearing and no itching yet. I have noticed a big difference especially today and the only thing I have done is use water and boiled it from the cold tap in the kitchen nothing else. I can’t express how much better I feel as I have been hiding and covering up for months as it looked so bad being covered in band aids!

I called the boiler customer service depo and spoke to a technical person who suggested this from what I could remember, cross contamination may be due to Non Return Valve being open and the system water is mixing with the cold water going into the boiler but leaving the cold water supply uncontaminated. The NRV has been fitted the wrong way around it’s either to the cold mains or central heating feed because the NRV allows medium flow in one direction which prevents backflow in domestic water. It isn’t the boiler which is the issue but things have been put in the wrong way around by the installer is what he told me.

An engineer is hopefully coming out next week, I also found out the last tenant only stayed for 6 months then moved out because he was getting sick (I don’t want to speculate but perhaps the hot water was also affecting him). The flat was empty for months before I moved in and the combi boiler was switched off from the mains, the landlord put it on when I moved in.

I will pay for an engineer and so far I can think of these things to ask him/her to check, DHW outlet/inlet valves, CH return/flow, DHW non return valve, set flow outlet temp, DHW outlet temp. Is there anything else in particular I should get them to definitely check as paying is not my concern but sorting this out is. Also are there any other places NRV’s would be placed that I should be aware of, many thanks.

(The flat had a gas fire place and cylinder boiler with a storage water tank before the combi boiler was installed a few years ago)

 

[Riley]

Can't be from the heating side as you removed the filling loop

 

[BobbyJoe]

Besides under the kitchen sink where else is a stopcock located within a flat? (NRV on the rising main to prevent backflow)

 

[Riley]

Backflow from what I'm missing the point

 

[Masood]

cross contamination may be due to Non Return Valve being open and the system water is mixing with the cold water going into the boiler but leaving the cold water supply uncontaminated. The NRV has been fitted the wrong way around it’s either to the cold mains or central heating feed because the NRV allows medium flow in one direction which prevents backflow in domestic water. It isn’t the boiler which is the issue but things have been put in the wrong way around by the installer is what he told me.

This is where I was going with closing the valves and removing the hose from the filling loop. Now you've done that, this theory is blown out of the water. The only other place where there is a possibility of primary/fresh water cross-contamination is within the plate heat exchanger if it is ruptured internally but the likelihood of that being the case is very small, and you would be seeing several other symptoms first.

Whatever you do, make sure that you get a Gas Safe registered engineer in, and DO NOT ALLOW YOUR DIY NEIGHBOUR TO MEDDLE. You would BOTH be breaking the law if you do that again.