Tun dish leaking intermittently on my Ariston Classico STI cylinder

[Husk24]

Hi Guys

I have posted a message similiar few weeks back regarding my issue with the cylinder, currently at week 3 still waiting for a plumber to check this, been let down twice already! - frankly a little pee'ed off!

So my question is meanwhile could I try the 'reinstating the air' procedure on this, it maybe just as simple as this.. I can try at least, if so can someone kindly post instructions on how to do this? happy to send pics first.

Thanks

 

[Husk24]

Pixs

 

[Riley]

Sorry my friend you need to be G3 registered to work on these as they are quite literally like bombs if they are not set properly. You’ll have to try a different engineer or maybe try the I’m looking for a plumber section on here.

 

[Knappers]

Turn off the cold supply (above right of small white cylinder)
Open lowest hot water tap and leave open.
Open t&p relief valve (top left, quarter turn).
Hold valve open untill glugging sound stops, that can be 5 min or more.
Then turn off tap, turn on water and check that t&p relief stops dripping.

However the small white cylinder may have been installed to replace this function if it doesn't work so you may need to charge that cylinder too.

With water off and hot tap open, pump the small white vessel up (with bike pump) to a pressure or 3bar then turn off tap and turn on water.

Riley is right but I would only class 'work' as an operation that requires tools (other than a bike pump) so don't unbolt anything or change any pipe or components!

If your not 100% sure from the instructions above then stop and wait for a qualified plumber

 

[Aire]

I wouldn't be happy with how that expansion vessel is supported, when you get an enginner to check your system over ask him to move that vessel. If the diaphragm perishes that's going to be alot of weight for the pipes to hold and you could end up with a flood to deal with.

 

[Chuck]

Turn off the cold supply (above right of small white cylinder)
Open lowest hot water tap and leave open.
Open t&p relief valve (top left, quarter turn).
Hold valve open untill glugging sound stops, that can be 5 min or more.
Then turn off tap, turn on water and check that t&p relief stops dripping.

These are instructions for a Megaflo type cylinder with an internal bubble. They aren't correct for the system in the picture, which has an external EV and needs to be serviced by a G3 qualified competent person who will know how to check the EV has not failed.

See, for example point 4 on the warning sticker.

 

[Knappers]

These are instructions for a Megaflo type cylinder with an internal bubble. They aren't correct for the system in the picture, which has an external EV and needs to be serviced by a G3 qualified competent person.

See, for example point 4 on the warning sticker.

Your right, I didn't look properly and was thrown by the dotted line - my bad.
I'd say point 2 was more precise!
I think charging the vessel is a reasonable DIY job.
Would be best to have it serviced too tho

 

[Knappers]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...EQo7QBCB0wAA&usg=AOvVaw26dfzSS6J6U9QC9nnIj2uZ

 

[Chuck]

I think charging the vessel is a reasonable DIY job.

I'd argue that the fact it needs recharging probably means that either it's not been properly serviced regularly or the EV is faulty neither of which are DIY.

These unvented systems are getting more common and a lot of them are getting quite old; IMO they need treating with more respect than many of them seem to be getting.

 

[Sharp Point]

I wouldn't be happy with how that expansion vessel is supported, when you get an enginner to check your system over ask him to move that vessel. If the diaphragm perishes that's going to be alot of weight for the pipes to hold and you could end up with a flood to deal with.

That’s a very good point Craig

 

[Husk24]

I personally would not touch it myself, getting a plumber to service and check it. I have been trying to find someone for the last three weeks!

I moved in this house 3 years ago, theres a sticker on it with an installation date of 2010, I haven’t serviced it since I moved here, I had no idea that it needed servicing! All I knew it was s tank full of water!

- but recently got to know exactly what it is, I even know what a tun dish is! I almost consider myself G3 qualified now! (Joke!)

 

[townfanjon]

Sorry mate , pump needs sorting , it shouldn’t be at that angle

 

[SimonG]

G3 Qualified plumber required/W Yorkshire

 

[Husk24]

Thanks for that SimonG, I have a plumber coming on Tuesday.

 

[Husk24]

Can someone explain what is meant by direct and indirect and also which is mine?

Thanks

 

[steadyon]

Direct means the hot water is heated from the heat source. I.e. an immersion heater or heaters.
Indirect means the hot water is heated by a flow of hot water inside a coil (copper or stainless steel tubing) which sits inside the cylinder.
Yours is indirect.

 

[SimonG]

Thanks for that SimonG, I have a plumber coming on Tuesday.

Your very welcome.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

indirect

direct is electric immersions heating it

in direct is a boiler heating it

 

[Husk24]

Interesting, thank you

 

[Husk24]

Plumber been today, finally sorted, it was the expansion vessel (i think that’s what it is called) needed airing, got it serviced too, the anode rods apparently looked as new when the cylinder was installed in 2010! I had the temp on 40c which was too low, all now set to 65.

I also have a water pump(the one that makes sure the hot water comes out straight away from taps) think its known as secondary loop , I have been told to put it on a timer as im losing heat. I might even try it without , test it out, as the water temperature is alot higher than before.

If I set the pump timer to come on for 5 minutes at a time would that be sufficient? Would that give me instant hot water next time I turn the tap on?

Thanks

 

[Riley]

The secondary pump works on the basis of spinning the water round the system so that you have hot water just waiting under the hot outlet for when it’s opened up. The timer will mean it spins once every 15-20-30mins to ensure that you have fresh hot water near the outlet

 

[Husk24]

How long does it take the pump to spin push the water? few minutes?

My timer is literally a plug adapter thats goes into the socket and I can only set ten Times per day.

 

[Riley]

That will work literally it just circulates to replace cooler water with hot

 

[Husk24]

Great stuff, il get timer set, try it out! Would 5 minutes at a time be sufficient for the pump to circulate?

 

[Riley]

Doesn’t need to be on for hours

 

[Aire]

Pleased it's sorted, did you get the plumber to look at how the expansion vessel is supported?

 

[Husk24]

Yeah he checked said he will talk about it next time, he’s coming back to upgrade my thermostat.

Going back to the water pump how long does it take for the water to spin around the pipes once? Is 5 minute timer sufficient each time?

Thanks

 

[Riley]

I’d say that or less

 

[Husk24]

Ok thanks so few minutes literally

 

[Husk24]

Charming ....

 

[Knappers]

I've got a secondary return that runs on a tiny little pump, the pump itself doesn't use much energy.
I think the main efficiency issue is lost heat through the pipework, keeping the pipework hot with short runtimes doesn't help much with that.
A timer to keep it off at times your not likely to use the hot is a good idea, like at night or while at work.
I've considered fitting a flow switch so the pump only runs when a tap is used, so the water is pulled through much quicker but the time and cost would probably outweigh the benefit.
IMO forget the 5min thing it's probably just going to shorten the life of the pump (like with a lightbulb)
Depending on the controls you have, could even use the second channel (HW) on your existing programmer to control pump times?

 

[Knappers]

I wouldn't reccomend not using it at all as it would either make HW take even longer to come through or leave tepid water sitting in the pipe to grow bacteria.
I'd reccomend running it for atleast an hour per day

 

[Husk24]

Mmmmm currently im using a plug timer, on every 5 mins per hour during daytime. I guess using the second channel HW would do the same anyway? Although I have no idea if I can , my thermostat is a nest.

Isnt there a way for the pump to come on automatically when hot water tap is used?

 

[Knappers]

Just keep as it is but I'd run it in the morning when I'm most likely to use the basin, shower etc
Then in the evening when I'm likely to use sink etc.
Running for 5min in every 20 would work well during those times but I don't see the point.
Rather narrowing down the times you most use the hot water would give best savings IMO.

 

[Chuck]

Isnt there a way for the pump to come on automatically when hot water tap is used?

There is but it would be pointless because the pump needs to be running for several minutes before someone decides to turn tap on. Unfortunately, the laws of physics don't allow such a device, which has to predict the future, to exist.