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i think you confuse facts with negativity

there are many positive people without plumbing work having paid out £1,000s on courses and time

expectations should be realistic

facts should be known, like the C&G tech cert is not the recognised full qual and will not get you JIB registered as a plumber
 
how are you finding the t4ts plumbing course im doingmy practical in feb 2011 i'm just worried about the forum
 
If all those experienced plumbers on here who have complained about the lack of experience of anyone trying to better themselves has, why dont they invite those people to come and work for them? I understand public and employers liability insurance then comes into play, but even when offered as a sub-contractor to a plumber for a pound day with our own public liability insurance we still get turned away saying we are a risk.

I've seen posts of experienced plumbers complaining that they may have to go to a job to sort out an inexperienced mans (or ladies) work, well if they helped to make one more experienced person the plumbing industry will continue; because as I see it at the moment all the experience is going to be too stuborn and ignorant to help, which will lead to a great deal of that experience lost in a generation.

I understand the construction industry is in a bad state, I am feeling the brunt of it working as an Area Sales Manager for a builders merchant in the East Midlands, but despite that, now is an ideal opportunity to encourage instead of disheartening those in training while we have time on our hands.

All people want to do is make a go of their lives because they maybe unhappy, have been made redundant or a multitude of circumstances.

I am currently on the T4TS course plumbing 6129 and NVQ 2 on week 4 practicle in 2 wks time. I am thoroughly enjoying it, aswell as gaining valuble knwoledge which in turn gives me confidence to speak to plumbers who use me through the merchant to help them get what they need.

I wish all who read this every success with their career wherever it may lead, and hope there may be renewed attitude from plumbers who are worried about losing work. If you are a good plumber with a good reputation work will come to you.

Thanks

Carl
 
Good for you Carl. Although you cannot go out there and claim you are a plumber with the 6129 you will have a sight more idea than without it and practical experience as well. What could you have done had companies like Train 4 Trade Skills not been operating ???. I really don't understand why Plumbers get so hot under the collar about such training centres, I recon it's just sour grapes. Everyone deserves a chance even if its only half a chance :D
 
I know I cant class myself as a qualified plumber with the 6129 but it gives me and many others a basis to build from.
I talk to quite a few plumbers around the various branches, most feel that when I mention I'm doing the course I'm trying to get a quick fix into the trade. I'm sorry but already having over 11 yrs in the construction industry I know it takes more than reading a few modules and doing 6 wks in a bay in a training centre to be a competent qualified plumber. Once I tell them this they have a totally different attitude and want to discuss things (luckily).

I want to succeed and that's what's going to happen even if it takes another 3/4 yrs just to get to level 3 and beyond. We are always learning.
 
Personally as an employer

If all those experienced plumbers on here who have complained about the lack of experience of anyone trying to better themselves has, why dont they invite those people to come and work for them? I understand public and employers liability insurance then comes into play, but even when offered as a sub-contractor to a plumber for a pound day with our own public liability insurance we still get turned away saying we are a risk.
I don't employ retrainers because i like to employ apprentices who i can mould into shape to suit my way of working. I know they are not there to only get enough experience to set up as a competitor. I don't do slave labour or serfdom either!

I've seen posts of experienced plumbers complaining that they may have to go to a job to sort out an inexperienced mans (or ladies) work, well if they helped to make one more experienced person the plumbing industry will continue; because as I see it at the moment all the experience is going to be too stuborn and ignorant to help, which will lead to a great deal of that experience lost in a generation.
I have passed my experience to many over the years and am quite willing to help anyone who wants to learn.

I understand the construction industry is in a bad state, I am feeling the brunt of it working as an Area Sales Manager for a builders merchant in the East Midlands, but despite that, now is an ideal opportunity to encourage instead of disheartening those in training while we have time on our hands.
Working for a merchant you should know the effect the recession has had on the whole building trade including plumbers. You will also have seen first hand the amount of new start ups and how long they last. What made you think plumbing was a good choice. You have, with your background, at least some insight of what you are letting yourself in for.

All people want to do is make a go of their lives because they maybe unhappy, have been made redundant or a multitude of circumstances.
The plumbing game is no greener than any other. Ive yet to meet a plumber who thinks we are in some kind of utopia.

I am currently on the T4TS course plumbing 6129 and NVQ 2 on week 4 practicle in 2 wks time. I am thoroughly enjoying it, aswell as gaining valuble knwoledge which in turn gives me confidence to speak to plumbers who use me through the merchant to help them get what they need.
2 inch and half bends and a cu9?

I wish all who read this every success with their career wherever it may lead, and hope there may be renewed attitude from plumbers who are worried about losing work. If you are a good plumber with a good reputation work will come to you.
That used to be how it was but now unless you have a really good preceding reputation and a niche market or are willing to work for what effectively, is less than minimum wage, due to the recession and massive over subscription to the trade, this is no longer the case.

Thanks

Carl
 
1,000s of people have done the 6129 off their own back because they want to get into the trade. It was never possible to expect employers to employ all of these.

The traditional route of apprenticeships is supply and demand. When the trade needs it they take on an apprentice and they train in college and on site getting the relevant skills. This ensured a steady streem of skilled trades people into the trade as and when required.There are still numerous apps who come into the industry ensuring that the skills you mention are passed on BTW.

Then they developed the 6129 to give people a chance of getting skills without a job. The people getting the 6129 only was never suppose to be giving them the full package just underpinning knowledge for them to build on when an opportunity arises or the trade needs it. The trade does not need it.

There are many things i would like to try in life but i will never get the chance, should i try these things and when i mess it up blame others for not training me?

Lets be realistic, I have seen many posts from 6129's claiming to be some type of victim due to 'stubborn and ignorant' plumbers. Is it not those who demand an entry into the trade who are stubborn and ignorant?
 
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Having recently taken on 6 plumbers, all with the relevant paperwork that claims they have been trained to a suitable standard, I'm not entirely sure who is kidding who. People complaining about employers using foreign labour, so I go out of my way to take on British workers, not because of costs because everyone is paid the same irrespective of where they come from. Then people complain that after investing their life savings in gaining qualifications in the plumbing industry they can't get work as employers are reluctant to take the risk. An employer may advertise a post paying say £150 a day and all and sundry will be applying for the job. And here lies the problem you have the guys who have just finished their training thinking they are now going to get a job paying £39k a year and think the employer should still offer them onsite training just to get the simplest of tasks done.
Now going back to where I started with taking on 6 plumbers, the first one arrived all keen and ready to go, started @ 8am and by 11am was still trying to fathom out how to drain a heating system with a broken drain cock, he ended up deciding that it was best to drain a 17 radiator heating system via the air vent of a radiator into a carrier bag, by 3pm he was bored (me too) and decided to throw the towel in and left. Following day next 2 plumbers arrive, went through with them exactly what had to be done, told them the system was still full of water and needed to be drained and even went as far as to tell them they needed to drain via the radiator valve rather than the drain cock. "No probs mate leave it to us" two hours later a phone call "we've flooded the kitchen out mate what do you want us to do?" they had tried draining via the rad valve but left the other valve fully open. Next plumber arrives told him what needed to be done, not only did he decide to throw away radiators that were not to be removed, he trashed wooden flooring, chucked away underlay and his pipework needed to be redone total cost to me £700. Heres his handy work View attachment 4232View attachment 4233yet he thinks I should pay him. The next 2 plumbers were excellent done what was asked and no complaints. If the people that leave these courses put themselves out as improvers rather than chancing themselves as plumbers then they might get employed...
 
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