Supporting pipes under floorboards + insulation

[Last Plumber]

Yes, I may consider copper then despite the price, if I can finish the job sooner.

How new to this are you if you don't mind me asking? Is it just the going under that bothers you or the whole thing?

 

[kasser]

Use mlcp then

what's that?

 

[kasser]

Use some 100 x 25mm trunking then elec fact should have that

So expensive. I'd better go under then!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

 

[kasser]

I'm fairly new, thus why I've never encountered a fairly common situation like this before. But I usually encounter situations where I get to run pipes within the first floor. This one is full central heating for a bungalow. About 16 rads. I'm just trying to find a way to run, insulate and clip all these pipes under the floor boards quickly. It's a shame that I may end up using copper out of sight when I could run plastic instead.

Pipes run in the loft means a lot of exposed pipework when dropping down, not as neat as pipes coming up through the floor.

 

[kasser]

There's no furniture or flooring anywhere in the house. Full access everywhere.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

How big are the joists depth ?

 

[Last Plumber]

Well if you prefer, why not go under with a battery drill and screw plastic stand off (wrap over) clips to the underside of each joist and use the plastic push fit stuff?
I personally don't like it but I am old fashioned and like you say, no-one will see it.

Apart from the next Plumber of course!

Have you sorted all your pipe sizing for the circuit?

 

[Burger]

Yes, I may consider copper then despite the price, if I can finish the job sooner.

Probably quicker than speedfit with all that 300mm clipping business

 

[Burger]

It's a shame that I may end up using copper out of sight when I could run plastic instead.

It is a shame, but copper was out long before plastic, and see loads in lofts in the properties I work in, it’s all they used. You need to weigh up the difference, I’m sure there’s not much in it and you’ll be fitting copper - welcome to OldSkool

 

[Aire]

Who remembers Hair felt? that used to be popular didn't it? For those who do not, it was highly flammable and very dusty/hairy to work with. You could come out looking like Chewbacca after an hour or two under there wrapping pipes with that.

I remember that stuff, caught some under a crawl space. Went up like a bonfire, first time I'd had to use an extinguisher on the job. Many spiders died that day

 

[Last Plumber]

I remember that stuff, caught some under a crawl space. Went up like a bonfire, first time I'd had to use an extinguisher on the job. Many spiders died that day

Oh the panic!!! .....It happened to me. Never moved as fast I don't think.

 

[Aire]

Oh the panic!!! ...It happened to me. Never moved as fast I don't think.

Certainly gives the heart a good exercise.

 

[Last Plumber]

Certainly gives the heart a good exercise.

Yes.
This is all bringing back memories. I had a mate who was under a floor and need to take a rest after crawling about so he hunched himself up onto his elbows and put his head up between the joists. As he leaned his head back to rest it on the side of the joist behind and it touched one of the old lead cables which was obviously leaking to earth. It gave him a fair crack and as his head flew forward his forehead hit a brad in the joist in front, lol...... Great days !

 

[kasser]

I'm not one of those who are all copper and no plastic or vice versa. I just choose whatever is best for the job. Usually plastic wins based on price if it's going to be out of sight. Here plastic seemed ideal at first glance, going under the floor, but with all the pipe clipping, going down the copper route may save me time.

I'll have to run a gas pipe from one end of the house to another, so will be using copper under the floor anyway.

I didn't check joist depth as I didn't consider notching or drilling them.

 

[kasser]

I was just wondering - combi boiler will be in the bathroom in one corner of the house and the kitchen in the opposite far, far corner. It will take ages for the hot water to reach the kitchen.

I don't think there's a way around this with a combi? The distance is what it is and there's no cylinder to run a return leg for the hot water.

 

[Aire]

Yes.
This is all bringing back memories. I had a mate who was under a floor and need to take a rest after crawling about so he hunched himself up onto his elbows and put his head up between the joists. As he leaned his head back to rest it on the side of the joist behind and it touched one of the old lead cables which was obviously leaking to earth. It gave him a fair crack and as his head flew forward his forehead hit a brad in the joist in front, lol.... Great days !

I'm laughing just imagining that. It's always funny when your colleagues hurt themsleves, some of my best laughs at work have been at the expense of others

 

[Last Plumber]

I was just wondering - combi boiler will be in the bathroom in one corner of the house and the kitchen in the opposite far, far corner. It will take ages for the hot water to reach the kitchen.

I don't think there's a way around this with a combi? The distance is what it is and there's no cylinder to run a return leg for the hot water.

Use the shortest route possible beneath the floor in 15mm and lagg it well. You probably thought that anyway?
That's all you can do really. Try it, you might be surprised how well it works.

 

[Burger]

Yes.
This is all bringing back memories. I had a mate who was under a floor and need to take a rest after crawling about so he hunched himself up onto his elbows and put his head up between the joists. As he leaned his head back to rest it on the side of the joist behind and it touched one of the old lead cables which was obviously leaking to earth. It gave him a fair crack and as his head flew forward his forehead hit a brad in the joist in front, lol.... Great days !

I bet that never made the accident book

 

[Last Plumber]

I bet that never made the accident book

No, it just made two thuds and everyone laugh!

 

[kasser]

Yes, I'll use the shortest route of course, saves me on piping too.
But I was briefly considering running the pipe in 22mm due to the distance. however, the initial pressure and flow rate at the meter is very high, so losses will be acceptable. And a 22mm pipe I realise now will have too much cold water sitting in it. Maybe run it in 8 mm .

 

[Last Plumber]

Yes, I'll use the shortest route of course, saves me on piping too.
But I was briefly considering running the pipe in 22mm due to the distance. however, the initial pressure and flow rate at the meter is very high, so losses will be acceptable. And a 22mm pipe I realise now will have too much cold water sitting in it. Maybe run it in 8 mm .

I would stick to 15mm personally.

 

[Burger]

Yes, I'll use the shortest route of course, saves me on piping too.
But I was briefly considering running the pipe in 22mm due to the distance. however, the initial pressure and flow rate at the meter is very high, so losses will be acceptable. And a 22mm pipe I realise now will have too much cold water sitting in it. Maybe run it in 8 mm .

Most are ran in 15mm, just go with the MI’s.

 

[kasser]

I agree with 15mm. There'll be just one hot water pipe in the kitchen anyway.

 

[Burger]

How big is this bungalow? 16 rads? did you mean 6?

 

[kasser]

4 bedrooms, 2 living rooms, conservatory, office, en-suite, etc. I was surprised at the number of rads too.

 

[Jerry]

No way I am lying on my back soldering pipes above my head. Plastic all the way.

If i am running perpendicular to the joist i will drill. I make up a drilling template from cardboard (for depth of wood and space between pipes) and a laser level to keep everyhting straight.

If i cannot drill when running perpendicular, then i will use Talon pipe clips with spacers and a laser again. I find an impact driver is small and quick in tight spaces. I also make up all the pipe clips before starting.

If i am running parallel, then i use Talan pipe clips on the inside of the joists or if their is not enough room, then a cheeky batternscrewed to the underside of the joists.

People are moaning about the spacing for plastic pipes. I generally add way more, especially at bends. Plastic pipe can be arguementative and needs to be wrestled into place frequesntly and the additional clips help.

As for insulation, i generally go with cheap 9mm wall. Each section is cut in between clips. If its in an area where there could be high heat loss, then i cover the expsoed clips with more insulation. Insualtion on show gets the treatment from my new pipe lagger pro cutter thingy.

 

[kasser]

People are moaning about the spacing for plastic pipes. I generally add way more, especially at bends.

Try adding way more when screwing the clips under the joists! Not easy.

You could use straight 3m of plastic pipes. Easier to work with and not much more expensive, though if you need long runs, you'll need to join them which defeats a little the advantage of using plastic.

Shouldn't your pipes in the pic be spaced further apart? 3 times hole diameter?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Try adding way more when screwing the clips under the joists! Not easy.

You could use straight 3m of plastic pipes. Easier to work with and not much more expensive, though if you need long runs, you'll need to join them which defeats a little the advantage of using plastic.

Shouldn't your pipes in the pic be spaced further apart? 3 times hole diameter?

Correct

 

[Jerry]

I knew you guys would see that! Well spotted!

Yep, the pipes were not in my first choice location. The client refused to let me space them out. I have no idea why.

Truthfully, I can find it very hard to meet the drilling and notching regs. Especially when you are coming across old joists that have been ravaged by previous trades.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I knew you guys would see that! Well spotted!

Yep, the pipes were not in my first choice location. The client refused to let me space them out. I have no idea why.

Truthfully, I can find it very hard to meet the drilling and notching regs. Especially when you are coming across old joists that have been ravaged by previous trades.

Especially sparkles

 

[Jerry]

Especially sparkles

Are they like twinkles? but with more glitter and unicorns?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Are they like twinkles? but with more glitter and unicorns?

sparkies

 

[gmartine]

I've used stainless cable ties and mounts for securing heavily insulated pipe in awkward places before ... rock solid and insulate to your heart's content. A bit overkill and made for cable but it's the business.

 

[Aire]

I knew you guys would see that! Well spotted!

Yep, the pipes were not in my first choice location. The client refused to let me space them out. I have no idea why.

Truthfully, I can find it very hard to meet the drilling and notching regs. Especially when you are coming across old joists that have been ravaged by previous trades.

I wasn't aware you could go against building regs because the customer says so. I'll remember that next time I'm asked to flue the boiler out the window because they don't want a new hole drilling