Source of Leak - end of tether!

[glpcboat]

We have searched high and low for the source of this water leak. Can anyone suggest anything else it might be, what does it look like to those more experienced than us? This is an internal partition wall - no pipes run within it (we have cut hole in wall and taken skirting off as you can see). House built 1920 ish. Water patch appears here randomly - 1-2 times a week, stays for 2-3 days but mainly when we are at home (out at work all day). Appears less in the winter! Has been going on for about 18 months, but patch getting bigger. Bathroom above it - have had floorboards up - no leaks apparent. Dining room from where pics were taken, just concreted floor (prev quarry tiles), membrane under it. Kitchen beyond the picture - has concrete floor with damp course. We've just cut through the wooden frame by the leak and put in piece of plastic to break the cycle if the wet is rising - to see if damp patch stays or goes, but guess now we need to get thermal imaging equipment to try to track this down. Does anyone know anyone reasonably priced in South Midlands area, who is good at this sort of thing. It's not that we haven't tried to find the source of this problem, so need someone who is like a 'dog with a bone'! Any suggestions..... the national leak detection co's all seem very expensive..... Any thoughts would be very welcome.... thank you in advance.....(hope I have uploaded the pix correctly)...

 

[dontknowitall]

If there are no pipes there it might be best asking a builder, but someone here might post later on or tomorrow.

In the meantime I'd be wondering about the floor - for example is there a drain that runs under the house. You'll probably say "No" but if this is an extension it might have been built over a drain.

Is there a pipe above that's dripping down to here? A small mirror and light might help with this one.

 

[wards]

well looks like it is coming up the wall rather than down,further investigation below would be my thoughts.

 

[Garryaca@yahoo.]

As wards says, if the bathroom is above it is would suggest that the leak is dripping from above, and as you say it happens when you are at home that further suggests the bathroom, check under the bath, and check the toilet cistern

 

[PlumbBobBob]

my thoughts as well is that a patch on the other wall coming through

steve

 

[glpcboat]

Hi - thanks for responses - all really helpful thank you all so much: We took the floorboards up in the bathroom directly above this wall and there doesn't appear to be any leaks - all seems bone dry - all pipes appear dry in the bathroom - also put digi camera in and photographed all the pipes in the dark bits, nothing apparent. The loo is further over - above the kitchen table you can see in the pic - but as Garry said above that loos are a common cause, I think we will put some dye in the toilet cistern tonight and see if that shows anything as we haven't done that yet..... We have found 4 other small leaks in the house while searching for this one, inc. the header tank in the roof now replaced, but none have proved to be 'the elusive one' yet... If coming from bathroom above, would it be possible to drip down and not leave 'trail' of some kind?

 

[Gedpen]

Have you thought of hiring a thermal imaging camera, this will show were water is coming from

 

[glpcboat]

I wasn't sure you could hire thermal imaging cameras, but presume builders' merchant type/ hire shops? Is there any chain that offers this type of hire?

 

[so-solar]

When you removed the floor boards in the bathroom did you fill the bath and basin and release the water or even run all of the appliances in the bathroom and flush the toilet whilst looking for the leak? this is the first thing i would be doing!

 

[buff]

When you removed the floor boards in the bathroom did you fill the bath and basin and release the water or even run all of the appliances in the bathroom and flush the toilet whilst looking for the leak? this is the first thing i would be doing!

agree with so solar,run everthing,fill the bath as volume of water is better
bob

 

[Centralheatking]

From your photos it appears to be a standard stud wall with no pipework within and the damp is very localised. Is the timber structure damp ?
or is it just the p/board and wallpaper. Without being flippant do you have a dog ? we did come across something like this years ago and
it was a small child !. have a good sniff - is it foul or fresh water

centralheatking

 

[oldplumber]

looks more like rising damp, old house no damp course and you can get damp coming up, esp as kitchen next door is concrete base, could have water tracking in from elsewhere, brocken drain etc. big issue is your plaster was probably lime based and if you have skimmed it with gypsum plaster it cant breathe anymore which exacerbates any damp issues not previously seen as the old plasters just breathed and got wet and dry naturally over time.

 

[glpcboat]

Thanks for all these suggestions.... we didn't put the bathroom facilities under pressure all at one time, but have used the shower, toilet, washbasin for the past 2 weeks, and all is dry under the sections of floorboards. But good idea, thank you, will fill up bath, fill basin and flush loo a few times and see if anything appears... and put the system under more pressure.

re: CentralheatKing -the wooden base to the wall is not wet, but the upright /vertical part is wet appearing above the slate damp course. We don't have a dog so can't be that and no children either! I think the plaster is plasterboard, and was probably put in around 1980 when the kitchen extension was done. The wall is in the middle of the house, and has concrete floors either side of it. Seems like fresh water . No drains run under this part of the house - we've had cctv survey of drains done to try and find a cause for this ongoing and increasing problem.... The partition wall is only about 1980, and has a gap within it of about 7-8 inches. Tonight the patch has completely disappeared, but the plaster is still damp inside, but will re-appear usually in the evenings about 9pm. It seems to appear when we are using the house, and when there has been no rain for days. I've talked to insurance co today to see if we can use 'track and trace' and get some one with thermal imaging to come along - but keep the suggestions coming, it is really helpful as we have run out of ideas - thank you

 

[ferrazuk]

Can you reach up inside the wall with your hand until it feels dry and stuff a towel or toilet paper up there and leave it for a week or 2.If it stays dry while the damp continues it will tell you that it is defo coming up the way might help u narrow it down a little.

 

[Deleted member 7121]

Have used Munters leak detection services before, they have all the kit to find this kind of leak www.munters.co.uk don,t about costs was a few years ago!!

 

[plumbster3456]

had something similar before if it only appears sometimes then have you checked the overflow from the bath?
could very well be happening when someone takes a bath and lets water reach the overflow.

This happened to me once and by time customer had called me out everything was dry.
the big clue to this was when i put a screw driver to a part of the chip board flooring it fell apart lol

 

[buff]

remove the plaster board!
youve spent enough time on this problem
cut along the next joist top to bottom remove board and see what happens over the next week or so
its only a matter of replaster and decorate
you will be able to see whays going on
bob

 

[stevetheplumber]

could there be pipes in the floor?is heating losing water if its sealed system youd know as preasure would drop if open vent shut of supply to header tank or tie up ballvale see if ;level drops
but its most likley to be from the bathroom if it only happens when your there have you checked all seals to bathroom appliances
ive had cases where the water runs under the showerscreen and down the panel without showing especially if theres carpet in bathroom run shower on all surfaces

 

[dave b]

you could possibly have leak in pipe under floor if floor is solid.maybe central heating.

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm!

Bit of a mystery!

If you had or have underfloor heating it may be a pipe leaking in the floor. It may also be a dead leg of pipe running in the floor, perhaps from alteration work.

Its obviously coming from about the centre of the threshold, which unfortunately is a favourite place for routing pipes through.

Try one of those cheap pipe detectors use by running it across the door opening threshold.

Bit of a mystery if it only happens when you occupy the house. So doing the Sherlock bit?

Could it be from a waste pipe which only contains water if somebody in the house is running it down the drain?

Do you turn the water main off when you leave the house releasing the pressure and then increase it again by turning it on when you come home?

Does it happen more when it rains?

Try some sodium fluorescien down the drain (drain dye) should show up if its the drains.

How high is the local water table?

Is the property tanked, if it is, does the tanking have a hole in it?

How close to a stream are you? What is the water level?

Is your drainage system two pipe or combined?

Is it surface water?

Do you have blocked soak aways?

Just a few ideas?

Good Fortune

 

[glpcboat]

Thanks for all, some very useful suggestions. However, I've phoned the insurance co today and we're going to proceed with 'track and trace' to try to get to the bottom of this - we are exhausted by it. A co. coming tomorrow am with thermal imaging, etc., etc.

There is no pattern to this leak - happens when it rains, and when it doesnt rain, the only cert is that it happens mostly in the evenings, when we are home from work! Property on a hill/high, canal about 1/2 mile down the hill! Drainage system just had CCTV survey - all fine no problems. Room from where pic taken - dug out last week to 2 ft soil under quarrytiles, nothing there. Newly concreted last week with membrane under, now whole house is concrete floors. New soakaway 6 weeks ago because we thought could be drains and soakaway had it anyway (huge £££'s!!!), have cut backs out of kitchen cupboards to expose pipes, one very minor drip - nothing else but mended anyway. Central heating pipes exposed around edge of dining room / this area, and kitchen roll put under them for 3 days to see if drips - none! As I said in earlier post - we have sawn thru the wooden strut (to the right of the big wet patch on the photo) and put plastic in between the wood to see if the leak stops if we disturb its path from rising up. Interesting tho the patch is still pretty wet today - and I would have thought it would have dried more in 2 days - perhaps tonight will get a better idea. This can't be coming from the dining room where the pic was taken, the ceiling above is dry, so our thoughts are the kitchen floor and the pipes under the wood laminate and concrete..... so guess we might know for sure tomorrow if these surveys are any good! I will post back with hopefully some definite news on this

 

[glpcboat]

Thank you for all suggestions/posts. We have just had thermal imaging people out (insurance company have organised this) and we apparently now have the answer - the leak is in the central heating pipe under the kitchen floor. To the right of the table you can see in the photo. The whole concrete floor in the kitchen is showing very high water saturation levels apparently and a circular hotspot around a pipe burried in the concrete floor was identified as the source - after 2 hours of detailed investigation. However, how the water is 'wicking' up the wall is a bit of a mystery since we have inserted a plastic tab half way up the wooden strut, but apparently this is possible! Further up the wall, hole put in and camera put in but only condensation found in there. Even these guys said this was a hard one to determine, and lets hope they are right! The thermal imaging camera was really good. Thank you again for all your suggestions, it was a real help.

 

[buff]

i was going to say it may be a pipe in the concrete,mmm
actually this reminds me of a job i went to
carpet in living soaking wet,eventually traced the problem to central heating pipe behind cooker! 15 feet away,it had followed the pipe run thru the concrete
bob

 

[Tong]

As steveb noted there appears to be a small damp patch on the other side of the door also .. so it seems like its coming up rather than down .. get hold of a protimeter (moisture meter) and take some readings around the house particularly the floor around the damp patches or get an inspection done (www.ihi.org.uk) .. usually rising damp is easy to diagnose but difficult by photo. Damp patches look a little too clean and wallpaper still stuck on so without a full inspection hard to say. gulluck!!!

 

[moony]

dig up the floor - go rooting - find your pipe bobs your uncle.

 

[philtheflush]

could be ghosts or probably condensation

 

[emorgans]

Hello,

I have a similar poblem and have just bought an endoscope off Ebay for £40. It has a light at the end and you can poke it through floorboards without having to take them all up. I hope this helps.