Plastic pipe on full installs

[bikerbas]

who uses plastice pipes when doing central heating installs,im working with a few plumbers and they only use copper were you can see it everything else is plastic.

 

[prs1]

Copper every time for me,but at the end of the day its the customers choice.
Also using copper for were u can see and plastic for the out of sight bits generaly means putting fittings in places that arent easily acsessable especialy when all floors are back down and carpets or laminate is in place.
To be honest a customer that wants cheap that much can get someone else to do it for them,they usually ask what would u put if u was doing it in your house and thats the end of it the difference in cost is negligable if ur splashing out 2 to 2.5 grand.
Oh and mice and squirrels love plastic!
It does have its uses though when its the only solution to issue and cant be done any other way!
Rant over (it takes 99% of the skill out of our job and turns it into a diy project) which is why alot of people these days begrudge our charges.

 

[bikerbas]

Thats what i thought loads of joints under the floor boards.

 

[pauls]

copper for me only use plastic in extreme cases

 

[prs1]

Even four years on pal it will be u they ring!

 

[NellyC]

All new house builds are done in plastic nowadays arent they??

 

[wnjswozo]

less corresion,easy to use,plastic out of the way ,and then copper stabbers on show

 

[migoplumber]

sorry but im a strong believer in copper, plastic is just not a true engineers choice, handy sometimes - but just not professional. very diy. imho.

 

[ecowarm]

All new house builds are done in plastic nowadays arent they??

Not all new builds.

 

[NellyC]

Not all new builds.

Ok most, well all the 1 's ive been in! and very badly done at that.

 

[gakmonkey]

I have seen too many plastic fittings leak due to scored and damaged pipe and one too many cases of vermin chewing through it to use it every day. If i do have to use it its uni pipe which is an alupex and costs more than copper anyway!

 

[Mbear]

I prefer 22mm copper pipework with 10mm manifolds, it lasts longer and looks better IMHO but I don't mind using plastic if that's what the cust prefers due to cost of material or less labour cost, my only condition Is they have to take a magnaclean or something similar. I don't like ch in plastic with no corrosion protection. Alot of new estates round our way fitted plastic with no protection and they notorious now for choked diverter valves/pumps knackered trvs and cold spot rads

 

[ceedy]

I can only comment on my experience.

I did my own DIY CH installation in 1976 in our Cottage and due to the solid floors and not wanting external pipes in the decor ( built in 1700), I used the dreaded plastic pipe, from a company in the USA, found in the Exchange and Mart ! . it used screw ferrules not the pushins of today .

But I've never had a single problem with the pipework in all that time.
inc little furry beings.. and there were quite a few around

I have only just just replaced all the piping with PEX pipe a couple of years ago , because just didn't know the life expectancy and because I had the oportunity ( being made redundant, and needed to do something LOL. ) and it being easy to thread through the existing holes. and it gave me the chance to up the pipe sizes a bit . as it was working on 3/8 inch pipe.

So still in the same home , and still got plastic.
Still have no visible pipework showing anywhere in the house.
That my experience anyways for whats its worth .
take care all.


Chris

 

[hamish72]

I prefer 22mm copper pipework with 10mm manifolds, it lasts longer and looks better IMHO but I don't mind using plastic if that's what the cust prefers due to cost of material or less labour cost, my only condition Is they have to take a magnaclean or something similar. I don't like ch in plastic with no corrosion protection. Alot of new estates round our way fitted plastic with no protection and they notorious now for choked diverter valves/pumps knackered trvs and cold spot rads

Why would valves etc on plastic be more prone to bunging up without protection ?

 

[NellyC]

I prefer 22mm copper pipework with 10mm manifolds, it lasts longer and looks better IMHO but I don't mind using plastic if that's what the cust prefers due to cost of material or less labour cost, my only condition Is they have to take a magnaclean or something similar. I don't like ch in plastic with no corrosion protection. Alot of new estates round our way fitted plastic with no protection and they notorious now for choked diverter valves/pumps knackered trvs and cold spot rads

Forgive me if this is a stupid question! but why would plastic give corrosion, that is one of the advantages of using plastic (no corrosion).

 

[Mbear]

Nelly and hamish

I understand why this seems unusual-plastic pipe/corrosion

the only reason I can give is they've not used barrier plastic, it's the only reason I can think of having seen so many of these systems, they are mostly potterton puma boilers and the wax capsules always fail eventually.

Anyone else who more clued up on the exact chemical reactions etc with the system with water/oxygen/metals/plastic may be able to explain it better

all I know is if the ch pipework is fitted in plastic (in the area I work) then the ch water is gona be as black tar, I just take it as given now. Magna protection prevents this

 

[NellyC]

Nelly and hamish

I understand why this seems unusual-plastic pipe/corrosion

the only reason I can give is they've not used barrier plastic, it's the only reason I can think of having seen so many of these systems, they are mostly potterton puma boilers and the wax capsules always fail eventually.

Anyone else who more clued up on the exact chemical reactions etc with the system with water/oxygen/metals/plastic may be able to explain it better

all I know is if the ch pipework is fitted in plastic (in the area I work) then the ch water is gona be as black tar, I just take it as given now. Magna protection prevents this

Whenever i use plastic i always use barrier pipe and the best fittings and never had any problems. But its true copper is much more proffessional and looks like you have actually been working once fitted.!!!

 

[prs1]

Like alot of the products used in modern builds -expected lifespan 25 years-I wouldnt buy a new build

 

[Toddyplumb]

As I understand it if its Non Barrier it will allow oxygen through the pipe wall which is then entrained as free oxygen in the water . Oxygen + iron (rads) = the dreaded !!
Lots of systems our way blocked solid !! Barrier pipe no problems .
And from our experience inhibitor made no difference

 

[migoplumber]

oxygen getting in ? surely that would mean something get out ?

 

[Toddyplumb]

Not necessarily it is at a molecular level . That is why they spent the money installing a barrier in the pipe.

 

[Mbear]

As I understand it if its Non Barrier it will allow oxygen through the pipe wall which is then entrained as free oxygen in the water . Oxygen + iron (rads) = the dreaded !!
Lots of systems our way blocked solid !! Barrier pipe no problems .
And from our experience inhibitor made no difference

this is what I've always been told, I was never 100% on it though, but I can't see anything else that could cause it.

 

[migoplumber]

can we have then name of the chemist ?

 

[Toddyplumb]

Hepworth Technical

 

[REDSAW]

thing is with plastic is whats the gntee?
copper pipe with soldered e/f's ?

 

[ceedy]

In addition to my gibberings about my experience with plastic..

The Black plastic tubing I used in my first install all those years ago was only a single layer tubing no special multi layers, so no oxygen barrier , but then had no problems either.

Originally driven by a Parkray solid fuel, with no controls .. on windy days you could make horsehoes in it ! LOL. and later with a Thorn Housewarmer
( being replaced this month).

The First few metres of pipe was imperial size Copper to the Tank/pump etc..and the rest was brass manifolds ferrules plastic pipe etc.

Over the years the amount of debris/sludge that appeared in the system
has been negligable.

And for many years it ran on plain water with no additives.

Only when I recently changed the piping as mentioned before, I did a chemical flush and to be honest it wasn't worth the cost of the flushing agent, so little muck appeared.

I'm off

Chris

 

[Toddyplumb]

Would that have been Acorn pipe ? We had awful trouble with that , water like oil !
Our water is soft , no limescale what is yours ?

 

[wildcard]

All the new house builds & refurbs i go on all use plastic to carcass out htg & supplies, to alot of folk its the norm now.Plumbers also dont want bundles of copper tube lying around waiting to be nicked.Its all about costs these days & using plastic seems to be more cost effective.

 

[stevetheplumber]

single oxegen molecules are smaller than water molecules hence the barrier in heating grade plastic

 

[newbie1]

plastic is easy to use/ bend just the joints are so bulky but in combination wth copper can save shedloads of time just remember those inserts or its niagra time

 

[ceedy]

Would that have been Acorn pipe ? We had awful trouble with that , water like oil !
Our water is soft , no limescale what is yours ?

The pipe was from some company who also seemed to sell sunbeds.. LOL what a recomendation !, must have been going for a while as I added a rad quite a few years later and was still able to buy it from them .
the system came with brass dual pipe rad valves for 1 end entry by Danfoss.
Just can't remember the company name at the mo... ( still got a small reel of pipe in the loft somwhere..)

Chris