Overdue / Disputed Payment. Energy Savings Trust.

[mcniven]

Just looking for some information here ...


Work was completed in a property, full central heating system, all radiator sizes, boiler position, pipework routes and exact works were all discussed and confirmed before work commenced.
On completion of works, our invoices were signed and customer was shown how to work new system, and seemed happy.

Our payment was to be received by Energy Savings Trust Scotland, who funded the customer on the Energy Efficiency Loan Scheme. Which was fine by me to wait for payment.

After not receiving payment after 14 days I called EELS (The Wise Group) in order to chase up payment. I was told that they had not yet received my invoice. I then called the customer
that we done to work for to ask if she has posted our invoice yet to which she replied "Yes, all done."

Long story short....

We collected a cheque from The Wise Group on the Friday (21 days later). However, I received a phone call on the Sunday from The Wise Group telling me the customer is now not happy with
the installation. Baring in mind the customer was in the house during the installation, allegedly, she has made the complaint regarding the following -:

1. Does not like pipework on drop feeds. (Concrete flooring up & down stairs. Was agreed before and after installation. No access below)
2. Does not like the wall the boiler is installed on. (Agreed before and after, was in house during full installation)

So therefor, The Wise Group had to cancel our cheque. I attempted to contact the customer, to which her son answered the telephone. After hearing her in the background whispering "I don't want to speak to him, put the phone down" I hung up. So I am now dealing with The Wise Group direct in order to find out where we stand.

Does anyone on here know our legal stance? Who is our agreement with? Can a customer suddenly 'be unhappy' after 30 days? Where do we stand as a company on this? Do I chase the customer direct, or The Wise Group? What about materials in the job that we payed for, surely they belong to us untill payed for?

Many thanks lads for any input!

Darren.

 

[dontknowitall]

In my opinion, you need to establish who gave the order, has the power to pay and, more importantly, who the contract is with. (Legal hat - with whom the contract is - never end a sentence in a preposition)...

It sounds to me that you are on strong ground here. I'd explore avenues before going to a solicitor - e.g. business link or whatever you have in Scotland. Even, if you're confident, trading standards so they can verify it's a decent installation. What I'm saying is it might be better to have a face-to-face conversation in addition to the (excellent) suggestions you will receive here during this evening.

Once you've established the contract (agreement, order, etc) write a letter giving a week for them to pay. If this fails, another letter with a further week to pay but warning of charges if left unpaid. Include your deadline dates as they might say "I didn't think Christmas counted" and stuff like that. Make notes now of what's happened so far, keep copies of letters, etc.

With regards to the materials, they are the property of the contract owner I'm afraid. If you rip them out saying they're not paid for that is counted as breaking and entering and criminal damage. Not my rules, but the law's.

In my experience, the longer you give people like this to pay, the more certain you can be of retrieving your money. Your notes will be invaluable if it has to go to court in the end.

Good luck - but don't count on the money before Christmas. No excuse for people like this, in my opinion, but that is the way of the world at present.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

As ever, VERY good advise from dontknowitall

 

[mcniven]

The customer called, asked for a quotation, asked for work to commence, on day of installation said, The Wise Group make the payment. Maybe I should of been alterted at this point?

It's causing a massive amount of concern, I dont know if this is someone trying to flog the system. Even although I have invoices/payment details/serials for the boiler & radiators, they are not my property?

Many many thanks for your input mate!

 

[dontknowitall]

They are your property (if explained on your paperwork) but they're in the customer's house. The law favours the customer in this case - stupid I know. If the materials were sat on the kitchen floor and not installed you would have every right to try and retrieve them but they're installed which makes the difference.

 

[mcniven]

Another point, if there was an installation issue for example, a leak, surely you must be given time for snagging / rectification. With regards to drop-feeds, a concrete floor, what else do they expect?

 

[Ivor Bates]

Was there a written detailed quote, stating where the boiler was to be located and where the pipe drops were to be? If so then they should pay with no complaints, if you just slapped it in willy nilly with pipe work running everywhere, without their agreement prior to the installation then I would say you should be given ample opportunity to rectify the works. What they cannot do is to refuse payment for either the goods or services you provided. I'd be inclined to write to both party's and state what you have written here "customer satisfied for 30 days" and so forth. Give them both notice of your intentions that you will be claiming interest on the outstanding amount owed under the The late payment of commercial debts Scotland 2002 if payment is not received in full within 7 working days. If you do go to to court it works in your favour if you can show to the court that you have been reasonable in trying to resolve the issues raised by the customer. If the customer has refused to be reasonable then that is their fault and not yours. Solicitors are expensive, so with a bit of research you can do it yourself.... And people wonder why I refuse to accept cheques, simply because they are not worth anything and give you no guarantee of payment...

 

[mcniven]

thank you mate

 

[mitchellplumber]

Deposit up front from now on mate. Cover the material and a bit of labour! The customer telling you someone else was paying on the day of installation is completely taking the P! I would send the customer who called you into do the job the bill and take her to court. Who was the quote made out to?!? Obviously her as you knew nothing about the company paying until the day of installation. I'd be dealing with the customer direct at this point! She is completely in the wrong. On your invoice always have material remains our property until paid in full. Have your terms written up with your quotes

 

[mcniven]

Problem sorted today.

Went with a meeting with customer, project manager and glasgow city council. Customer was liable for acceptance of installation due to signage of invoice and wording in our paperwork.

Glad thats sorted!