NO One wants to be a plumber??

[Stigster]

Someone newly qualified at level 2 won't have lead work - City and Guilds have removed it from the syllabus.

We're still teaching lead work as an add-on if an apprentice's employer asks. I was fortunate to still have lead on the old 6161 (even then I think the lecturers added that part on themselves) Level 2 and 3 I did a few years ago. Not that I have needed it much other than the lead slates on boiler flues but it's good to know how to work with if necessary in future.

Both the lecturers I work with have lots of experience working with lead and I can see they enjoy passing the skills on when they get asked.

 

[Mgrant]

I have seen plumbing assessor jobs advertised at £14 per hour and the hourly rate for plumbers in the south west can be as low as £3.30 per hour for apprentices, to about £8 hour for qualified at level 2, and £9 newly qualified at level 3. Experienced workers could expect anything from £14 to £18 per hour - so £20 seems good deal at moment for Manchester. Lower rates in south west because it is beautiful to live here! Around 30 years ago I was earning well over 1k a week doing lead work! so wages have slumped significantly.

Thanks is the slump in wages down to more plumbers in the system?

 

[rpm]

Thanks is the slump in wages down to more plumbers in the system?

Wages in general have stagnated across many sectors of the uk unless you are a director or board member of a large company in my opinion.

 

[NickDavies]

Just to chime in here....."do an apprenticeship" I was told "you will never be out of work" so I did .....4 years I was exploited for and then when the anniversary of my indentures were up they laid me off....."it's for your own good" they said "you can't be a boy one day and a tradesman the next in the eyes of the lads just because you have come out of your time"

I did get some very good block release technical training over those 4 years though, started my first year on 27 pence an hour, started my 2nd year on 35 pence an hour and for the first few years took home more in travelling time (distance money) fares and dirty money than actual wages.

And so the race to the bottom continues, 30,000 CITB "cro" cards a month over the last few years and many outsiders helping each other to get on their feet, undercutting everyone on prices, even themselves. try giving a business card to a concierge these days, it will end up in the Bin.

My Son? I advised him Not to entertain any thoughts of an apprenticeship as I would any young person these days, certain trades used to be viewed as "Professions" now they are merely occupations, I have seen 2 mobile plumbers jobs advertised recently with Zero hours contracts.

When I was a kid I was quite bright but a bit "Naive" and brought into the "get yourself an apprenticeship propaganda" but kids these days are not so naive and have every right not to be exploited on a building site.

There are grown men offering to work for free? to get experience, I've done it myself to get my gas safe hours signed off and little or no love shown from my fellow working class proletariat.

Everyone's in it for themselves these days and the love of money is the bottom line, you can't really blame young people for not wanting to toil like we did, I blame the elders for not sticking together, but I could be wrong

 

[wetdrip]

Can you move to Coventry and take on my son.
Nightmare here trying to find someone like yourself.

 

[Stanios]

I wouldn't do my apprenticeship again I think the format is wrong, too much is down to employers discretion - we had lads who worked one day a week for their dad, had those who swept floors for 5 days a week and a small minority who were actually taught and given appropriate jobs.
Its outdated, 4 years is too long of a period these days when everything else is fast track.

They need to reduce it down to 2 years, do two days in college a week with one full day in workshop plus make sure you arent working for a bricklayer and actually doing some plumbing at work. Also increase apprenticeship wage so employers feel like they need to teach the apprentice something usefull rather than just paying to tidy up tools for 20 quid a day.

 

[SimonG]

I would. Simpler days.

 

[wetdrip]

Or just carrying boilers upstairs and coring out.

 

[wetdrip]

NICKDAVIES
Great, honest post. The last paragraph is, in my opinion, one of the best, brutally honest posts I've seen on here. Well said that man.

 

[Stanios]

NICKDAVIES
Great, honest post. The last paragraph is, in my opinion, one of the best, brutally honest posts I've seen on here. Well said that man.

Thats just how I am, moany beyond my years

 

[NickDavies]

For real ...... but I'm just in the warm up phase......stay tuned : )

 

[chris watkins]

Our tutors have "unofficially" advised us against Apprenticeships
It's quicker and easier to get qualifed the college route.

They would say that wouldn't they !!

If I were you I would pay more attention to what the people on here have to say, they actually work & employ people in this industry not those who have left to work in a college.

 

[chris watkins]

I don't know how many times it has to be said "You can't learn to be a Plumber or get qualified by just attending a college"

The college & work experience sides should be undertaken at the same time, in the form of an apprenticeship, so that you see how the two go together (theory & practical).

Learning plumbing by working along side a tradesman has been normal practise for thousands of years why all of a sudden do people believe it can achieve differently ?

Trust an ex plumbing lecturer the modern teaching methods in no way shape or form make up for what you will, & need to learn on a site.

 

[A1P]

Are you at a local technical college or one of the Training Colleges with pretty hefty fees? As has been stressed on many similar posts the need for some sort of experience to get taken on can prove difficult and very disappointing for those with just paper qualifications.To employ someone they have not only to be worth their wages ,but actually make something for the employer on top.For most sole traders/small businesses it is too much of a mission even to take on an apprentice.It is a shame but all the rules and time investment can make it hard to justify on a business basis.You are saying that your qualification makes you a 'qualified plumbers mate.'I am trying not to smile.How could you earn me not only £360/400 per week but also a worthwhile profit on top.There are jobs out there for experienced ,qualified plumbers at £10/12 an hour. This post is not meant to be rude or mean,just realistic.

 

[A1P]

GaMo -Thank you for your calm and clear reply.That's how a discussion should be.
Firstly well done on using the Grants System.

Yes,colleges and C and G do claim it puts you at plumbers mate level.What this should also point out more forcibly is that NVQ's require employment to demonstrate a limited amount of practical skills making this difficult.Lots of posts on this.This in itself is not regarded as 'experience' as specified in advertised jobs.

I did check out Plumbers Mate vacancies and most state or assume experience in applicants.This brings us round to the old 'How can i get experience when it is so difficult to get a job?'

This leads back to the last point I made about how can an inexperienced person earn me money especially at plumbers mates rates?

I was forced to go self-employed with NVQ 2 and 3 and did my 'Gas'and it took me 8 years to build a business with a lot of help from family and friends.

 

[rpm]

That's the way to go because as an apprentice you'll earn £4-5 per hour, whereas as a plumbers mate you'll be looking at £9-10 per hour.

Where do you live, London? Some places are only paying £9-10 for skilled men.

 

[Rickster123]

Watford which isn't far from London
Plumbers here would earn between £14-£18 per hour.

Based on what? With all due respect you sound completely blinkered to the reality of the industry. What do you currently do workwise?

 

[Rickster123]

Based on what's being currently advertised
Go onto a jobsite and search plumbers in Watford
You'll see for yourself, it's not rocket science mate.

Half of those "jobs" don't exist. It's just to get your details on their database.
And wind your neck in or jog on. It's not rocket science.

 

[rpm]

Half of those "jobs" don't exist. It's just to get your details on their database.

Fact! Sister found this out.

 

[rpm]

Watford which isn't far from London
Plumbers here would earn between £14-£18 per hour.

Popcorn and drinks ready waiting for the replies from the members local to you however you seem to have your mind made up.

 

[Rickster123]

There are some jobs out there for sure. But you need 3 things, experience, qualifications and a decent attitude. And people with 1 out of 3 are going to struggle.

 

[rpm]

So everybody here trying to help you is wrong, is that what you are saying?

 

[Rickster123]

Sorry if I hurt your feelings but I'm just telling you know much plumbers in my area can earn based on jobs that are being advertised. To turn around and say that they're all fake makes you look a bit stupid mate.

You didn't hurt my feelings flower. I just think you need to do your homework a bit more.

 

[rpm]

Help me do what? Don't play the victim, we're having a conversation.

Victim?

 

[Rickster123]

What are you talking about? Homework for what?
I'm giving you facts and you're denying them.

Carry on mate you're the one looking stupid
"all the jobs advertised on jobsite aren't real"
What a silly comment kid, what proof have you of this?

If you're going to quote me then quote me correctly. Failing to do that is making you look stupid.

 

[rpm]

Off to the pub for a few hours, hopefully the music has changed by the time I get back later.

 

[Tjdservices]

Gamo, we all have experience in the industry and we all
Experience on an almost daily basis people
Like yourselves emailing, calling us up asking if we have any work. The first question is what's your experience. There is work out there but there are also a lot more people out there with experience. The plumbing courses are always busy at colleges it's the next step that takes time. Which is gaining real world useable experience. That is what an nvq teaches but a diploma can't. If you think anyone is going to pay you more than there apprentice who has bags more experience than yourself you are wrong. Good luck in your career and just think seriously about getting yourself some experience and expect to do it unpaid.

 

[chris watkins]

Can you imagine trying to teach this guy anything, you would constantly be told "you don't want to do it like that, do it like this"




I am getting bored now, so best of luck GaMo, come back & tell us all about your new job as a Plumbers Mate. :seeya:

 

[Dotty]

First sensible response I've had here in a while.


I'm not currently looking for work as a plumber or as a plumbers mate
I'm working my normal job and attending college to gain the qualifications.

When the time comes I'll work for free if need be to get my NVQ
I'll labour for free if that's what it takes to complete my portfolio and assessments.

You and a million others.

Wind your neck in and stop arguing the toss with seasoned professionals who have seen all the changes in the industry over the years. We don't have a 'victim' mentality. We have world weary cynicism brought about by media flim flam that we're all borderline millionaires coupled with training centres offering plumber in 6 weeks courses.

You haven't offered any evidence. Just hearsay.

What I suggest you do is sit back and pin your ears back. You might find you'll learn something.

 

[SimonG]

I don't get what your problem is son, I'm telling you what plumbers can earn in my area based on the jobs that are advertised on reliable jobsite, if you don't want to believe it then that's your problem but you've not given me any evidence to back up your claim at these jobs are fake. Tell me then, what should plumbers in my area be earning?

What do you do for a living? Think this was asked previously and ignored.

 

[SimonG]

Off to the pub for a few hours, hopefully the music has changed by the time I get back later.

I've got Bernard Cribbins 12" long play of Diggin a hole.

 

[A1P]

Hi again.I posted 2 long but constructive posts.Page6.I tried to get across in a realistic way the problems you and many others before you face in getting into plumbing.I finished by pointing out that from a business point of view anyone who employs someone has to earn on them, not pay them wages for the privilege of all the hassle in taking them on,training them,legal responsibilities,finding them work or paying them for nothing.This a bit more harsh than earlier.The main reason I have decided not to take someone on is not just the above ,but they would have far better conditions than me ,longer holidays,sick pay,pension,paternity leave,guaranteed wage.They would have to be the dogs danglies to make it worthwhile.

On a different subject.At first I gave you the benefit of the doubt for your Gungho attitude but there is a big difference between this and being a cocky bar steward.You need to realise this PDQ as it pees people off.Trades people who have lots of experience have no time for it and if working on site they wouldn't put up with it.I notice in your last reply to me you said 'I can blag experience or give fake references if that's what it takes.'I think my patience has worn a bit thin as with the guys in recent posts.If you have learnt anything from these posts you may have a chance.I learnt a lot of my trade off here and still learn new things.YOU NEVER KNOW IT ALL.Good luck.

 

[AMW]

My previous employer took on a lad who had done a college course then needed employment to gain an nvq, after the first week he was with us we told him to forget the practical side of what you learn't in college as it was so far away from the real world, it's easy to do things in a bay or on a jig at college but you don't learn how to get over problems with out site experience.

 

[SimonG]

The three useful phrases.

Eyes open.
Ears open.
Trap shut. Unless it's a question.

Get you a long way.

 

[AMW]

The three useful phrases.

Eyes open.
Ears open.
Trap shut. Unless it's a question.



Get you a long way.

No.4

Phone in van

 

[SimonG]

No.4

Phone in van

Phone goes weeeee

 

[SimonG]

No.4

Phone in van

No mobiles when I was a lad, cue the hovis music

 

[plumb_know]

gone through 4 apprentices so far, but still looking

 

[Dotty]

I don't get what your problem is son, I'm telling you what plumbers can earn in my area based on the jobs that are advertised on reliable jobsite, if you don't want to believe it then that's your problem but you've not given me any evidence to back up your claim at these jobs are fake. Tell me then, what should plumbers in my area be earning?

If you want to remain a member of this forum you'll do well not to be rude to members of the management structure, of which APPlumbing is one.

As I said. Wind your neck in. Or you can try being rude to me if you like. See where that gets you.

 

[Ric2013]

When the time comes I'll work for free if need be to get my NVQ
I'll labour for free if that's what it takes to complete my portfolio and assessments..

Really! that's what I do for when I need NVQable experience (usually I'm self-employed), but the guy who lets me work for 'free' (though actually I get a great deal of knowledge from him) tells me he routinely gets people offering to pay him (and sometimes he accepts) for the same privilege (and it's true: I've heard the phone calls).

 

[Jay The Plumber]

damn, I wish I was young again... I had forgotten what it was like to know everything..

 

[oz-plumber]

You are a dimwit!!!!

Cheers....

 

[Best]

For someone that believes all the adverts for jobs on Internet, but then states about misinformation on this forum, seems contradictory.
My advice would be take every bit of information that you can get in life and decide what you believe, but be polite to all those offering help.
Looks like somebody is leaving! :smile:

 

[SimonG]

Must be a civil servant, too embarassed.

 

[rpm]

I gave you an example,y sister gave me the low down on how these people operate but you choose to ignore the post.
Enjoy the holiday :biggrin:

 

[ShaunCorbs]

They all want experience and being able to work on your own which you can't as you have no experience

tbh short courses / collage only courses are only for people like timed served who need nvqs etc as they already know what there doing

 

[SimonG]

So long

Farewell

Aufwedershein

Goodbye

 

[Rickster123]

Yeah he gone..

 

[A1P]

I see that GaMo has been Sam Allardyced! Mind you Sam trousered a million quid to keep his mouth shut.GaMo didn't even get his plumbers mate rate! I wrote 3 helpful ,detailed posts in the vain hope he had a brain cell.That's 30 minutes of my life I won't get back.I must get my pill*** identification instinct sharpened.

On a more serious note I am concerned about how we get quality entrants into the trade.Much of the training is frankly a racket in that it does not meet the needs of the trainee or trade.Apprenticeships do not seem to be working well in that few on here seem to have had positive experiences 'Gone through 4 already.'In a pure business sense,many of the trade are sole traders and it is not economically viable to take on an apprentice.If training organisers are paid to train perhaps we could have the apprentice's wages paid for the first year.By then it will be clear if it is working for both.I do however appreciate this could be exploited.Is it worth a new thread?

 

[Dotty]

Yeah he gone..

Awwwwwwwwww I was gonna do that!