Nightmare Plumber Has Left me in a Pickle

[swykes]

I've had a very stressful and upsetting experience with a plumber that I employed after seeing good reviews for him on a trade website. I employed him to take out the old bathroom and remove tiles and re-fit new bathroom, re-tile and put some spot lights in, as the company do full bathroom refits including electrical works. They were fine removing the bathroom suite and tiles but things went downhill rapidly day by day after this. On day 2 the plasterboard that had come away around by the old bath when the old suite was removed was replaced and bonding put at the edge and they then day 3 they started to re-tile, , but they hadn’t got the wall level and therefore there was a gap of about an inch at the corner of where the two walls meet where the bath was to be placed and the end where the shower was going. We were not happy with this, especially my dad (he worked on building sites for over 35 years before retirement):

This wasn't the only thing we weren't happy with by this time the tiling was really bad and areas had to be re-tiled at our expense. We had lost all confidence in the plumber and his son by now and didn't feel he knew how to rectify the unlevel wall, so my dad said he'd do this, he did and he did a good job of this:



When the plumber fitted the bath, we ended up having a leak in our dining room, see the photo below which shows the damage:



The job over-ran (even though my dad made up the boxing for him and the bathroom furniture, even though this was part of the quote) and after being told it would take a week to complete, we were told that he'd be back in a week as he had another job on and finish that Saturday, after they went we found more tiling issues, so much so that my husband and my brother decided to re-tile areas themselves and do grouting as there was no way the plumber and his son would finish the job the following Saturday as there way still lots to do.

By now though we had got to the point that we didn't know whether we could trust them to do a good job, therefore when they came back I expressed my dissatisfaction and asked them to just finish the last small bit of tiling left (not including grouting) and to fit the towel rail and spot lights. We decided to let my dad and brother fit the shower rail, shower screen and bath panel and finish grouting. We paid the plumber in full apart from £100 which we stated we'd keep for one month to see if we had any further leaks or issues and he said he'd email me a receipt. I've received no receipt and we had a leak 30 mins after him leaving on the towel rail, he came the next day though and fixed it. We also noticed that the cones that fit behind the shower valve were missing we asked him about this, as they were in the spare room on the morning they were working and now they were missing, he said he hadn't seen them. We have now found out that there should be a 20 mm gap from the wall to the bolt for the cone to fit, we have only been left with 12 mm on one side and 9 mm on the other. I have since phoned him and he has said he'd measured correctly before my dad levelled the wall, therefore trying to blame my dad for this, all he did was level the wall. The bathroom shop has stated the plumber shouldn't have fitted the valve until after the area was complete and tiled.


What can I do now? The plumber has taken my money, hasn't left me with a receipt, a part P certificate for the spot lights and has left us with his bodge job. Are there covers we can buy that be cut down, obviously cones will not look aesthetically correct as one will have to be cut more than the other.

We have now also found that the bath is flexing in the corner and the mastic is splitting, we may have to take the bath out and fit a wooden plinth to the wall for it to rest on, as the plumber hasn't done this.

I'm sure there are lots of good contractors out there, but we did what we thought best, we went by reviews, this whole experience really puts you off using contractors.

Your help and suggestions regarding the shower valve covers will be greatly appreciated.

 

[lame plumber]

word of mouth is best recommendation, internet sites are businesses aiming to make money, and its weird how I found my self on a rated type site with to wonderful write ups a while back!! re covers go to an independant merchant and see if they have some in stock.

 

[northstar]

where are you located ?

 

[Destroyer2813]

This is what angers me about this trade there are so many good honest knowledgeable men out there and you get this . Some of that tiling is shocking, i wouldnt of tiled onto that bonding. Your options with the flexing bath are remove the panel and put 2x2 wooden legs braced between under side of wooden frame around bath to the floor to stop the flexing. I know it will be a pain but i would remove the 2 tiles behind the shower and bring the pipes out at 150mm centres and use a fixing kit which will give you a nice clean finish

 

[Rickster123]

I'm afraid I'm going to be brutally honest. From the pictures shown the job is a disgrace. I would be worried about what you can't see under floors and burried in walls. It looks like a start again job.
Such a shame and I'm extremely sorry for you but on this occasion the Internet has failed you.

 

[swykes]

Coventry

 

[Guest123]

I'm so sorry for you and what you've had to endure. I can assure you that there are far more excellent tradesmen, than bad ones. It's the bad ones that make the news.

As for your "cones", you've come this far and ripped out and redone lots of work. Is one more going to disrupt your bathroom that much if it means getting the work done correctly and permanently?

One of the guys on this forum should be able to pop round and advise you upon sight of the job. Just post your location (not your full address!) here and someone will PM you.

I hope it all works out for you.

 

[Mike Jackson]

I would say that your best bet is to get an independent report on the work before you do anything else. Having done this you can pursue the original installer for reimbursement of the cost to put right the work through the small claims court.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

i agree with mike. get a report before taking anything down

 

[plum ber]

I am also really sorry for you this work is atrocious, wish i was a bit closer I'd help out.....Good Luck anyhow

 

[Guest123]

Make a new post here and someone should contact you:

[DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/im-looking-plumber-gas-engineer/"]I'm looking for a Plumber or Gas Engineer[/DLMURL]

 

[swykes]

How would I go about getting a report done and how much will this cost? Also if I went down the small claims court route, how long would it take to sort out?

 

[Guest123]

Anything legal can take time. Make an appointment with a lawyer to discuss your options, their first meeting is free. A report can be done by any other firm that is independent of the original contractor. Phone a few firms and ask them for quotes, or get someone on the forum.

 

[plum ber]

I think and don't quote me on this that it's the local authority buildings inspector BUT not 100% on this as I have Never had issues like these cowboys.....

 

[Keefy]

I don't think I'd ever advertise my services on one of those so-called trade sites. Some may disagree but those places are were I'd check for who not to use. I've seen a few (dodgy to say the least) people I know advertising on there and they have great reviews which look suspiciously like they've been written by themselves.

Word of mouth is always the best advice, or if you see a friend or neighbours bathroom which you are particularly impressed with - then ask who did it.

Hope you get this mess sorted soon though, a good plumber can be hard to find but it's worth the time and effort to track one down.

 

[tamz]

Here is my advice and it is a bit brutally honest (just in from a night out sorry)
Forget the legal route. Who will be your expert independant plumber when you don't know a good plumber from a bad? Some other check a trade trusted numpty? Will he be willing to stand in court and give his opinion which could be shot down? Any tradesman could walk onto the most perfect job and pick faults if they really look and choose to do it and get involved in a legal wrangle that will turn out one side against another (your bathroom guy will defend himself if it comes to it).
Would i do it and get involved? No. I ain't getting paid for the inconvenience and my time is my livelihood.
Go the legal way and you will still be sitting there a year later with an abortion of a bathroom.You might get a result in the end (you do deserve one) but it will cost you more stress than money.
Building control wouldn't know a good job if it kicked them on the derrière so forget that route too. More money and stress for no result.
Cut your losses and learn fron your experience. Get a local WELL ESTABLISHED company on word of mouth (you will find one if you ask around) to sort it out and move on.

Unfortunately people no longer know their local tradesmen and think the internet is a great place to find someone. It is not! These internet rated whoever companies are there to make CASH.
While there are a few really good tradesmen using these sites because the economic times mean they struggle for work the MAJORITY are garbage.
It is no more than a lucky dip.

Btw never pay in full for things until you are happy with the result.

I really do sympathise. I hate bad workmanship.
I hope you get it sorted for a reasonable cost.

 

[Avatar]

I have to say people ask me why I am not on 'trusted tradesmen' site, I tell them that reviews are easily written by friends and the sites charge the trademen for listings (and in some cases leads as well!)

I wouldn't trust them to wipe their own noses let alone find you a good tradesmen!

The job is beyond shocking. It looks like the work of someone who really does not have a clue . . . . . Are you sure this guy is actually a plumber? It looks like a job by 'Bodge the Builder' to me.

It is true that pursuing this legally will be a headache for you. I always tell people to get local 'one man band' tradesmen specialised in their specific field.

If you need electrics or tiling done then get a dedicated electrican in - this way I think you can avoid the bodge job artist who invariably offer to do all of the work for you.

 

[swykes]

The pipes have been plastered over, how can the pipes be extended? Do the pipes have to be extended first before a fixing kit could be used?

 

[Guest123]

The pipes have been plastered over, how can the pipes be extended? Do the pipes have to be extended first before a fixing kit could be used?

Yes they do. Take my advice I gave earlier and rip it out and redo it properly this time. If you don't you might regret not doing so.

 

[petercj]

The ideal person to do an assessment and a report would be a buildings surveyor, but you might be throwing good money after bad.

Firstly, do you have any evidence at all, e.g. an invoice or a receipt, that this tradesman did the work for you?

Secondly, while it is very understandable that you have lost confidence in him, if you don't give him the opportunity to put things right that is going to work against your chances of winning a claim against him.

As suggested, the first thing to do is to take some decent quality photographs of the problems, and get three written estimates for putting things right.

Then I suggest you send him a Recorded Delivery letter telling him why you are unhappy with his work, and relate your comments to enclosed photographs of the problems. Say that you have had the work assessed and quoted on by three other tradesmen, and that the mean cost (the middle estimate) to put things right is: £***.00. Point out that the estimates (not quotes) are based on what can be seen to be wrong, and do not cover any work that might come to light once remedial work is underway. Ask for a reply in writing within 28 days, and add that if the matter cannot be resolved satisfactorily you will consider making a claim against him in the County Court (if small claims track the claim will need to be no more than £5000).

Then see what kind of reply you get, if any.

If he defends his work then at least you will have some written evidence that he has done work for you. He may want to come and inspect the work himself, which you will need to allow him to do.

If he offers to put things right, then maybe you can convince him that you want any remedial work done by someone other than the original person who has made a hash the first time round. Perhaps he has other people working for him who could do a good job, or he might want to sub it out. Or he might agree to make a refund, in full, or in part.

If you can't agree, then you have the option of registering a claim against him in the small claims court, which you can do on line, you don't need a solicitor - you can use a solicitor if you want to, but legal costs are not usually awarded in the SCC because the idea is based on DIY presentation of your case to get justice as cheaply as possible.

If you go to the Court website you can look up the fees, which depend on the size of your claim.

You can serve the notice of proceedings yourself, or the court will post them to him.

How long will it take to get to court - hard to say as it depends on how busy they are, say three months at a guess.

Give him 14 days notice of your intention to register your claim in the CC, because you might find that he has second thoughts during that period around settling the matter out of court.

If it gets to court, then just turn up with your Invoice/Receipt from him, your photographs, estimates to put things right, and explain your case to the Judge. The job quite obviously looks a bodge, and that will go in your favour.

If this guy ignores your letters to him, and you have no evidence to show that he did the work and charged you for it, then to be honest, I wouldn't bother trying to recover anything in the Court.

If you do have an Invoice/ receipt from him, and he doesn't show at court and tries to ignore the proceedings, then the likelihood is that you will get judgement in your favour.

If you have legal cover on your house insurance, use it to get advice, and representation, if it gets that far.

 

[TBServices]

Yes they do. Take my advice I gave earlier and rip it out and redo it properly this time. If you don't you might regret not doing so.

Agreed. Another plumber may be able to make it look half decent on the surface, but underneath the job is still poor and will only cost you in the end, possibly in new ceilings, carpets and woodwork.

 

[Howsie]

Here is my advice and it is a bit brutally honest (just in from a night out sorry)
Forget the legal route. Who will be your expert independant plumber when you don't know a good plumber from a bad? Some other check a trade trusted numpty? Will he be willing to stand in court and give his opinion which could be shot down? Any tradesman could walk onto the most perfect job and pick faults if they really look and choose to do it and get involved in a legal wrangle that will turn out one side against another (your bathroom guy will defend himself if it comes to it).
Would i do it and get involved? No. I ain't getting paid for the inconvenience and my time is my livelihood.
Go the legal way and you will still be sitting there a year later with an abortion of a bathroom.You might get a result in the end (you do deserve one) but it will cost you more stress than money.
Building control wouldn't know a good job if it kicked them on the derrière so forget that route too. More money and stress for no result.
Cut your losses and learn fron your experience. Get a local WELL ESTABLISHED company on word of mouth (you will find one if you ask around) to sort it out and move on.

Unfortunately people no longer know their local tradesmen and think the internet is a great place to find someone. It is not! These internet rated whoever companies are there to make CASH.
While there are a few really good tradesmen using these sites because the economic times mean they struggle for work the MAJORITY are garbage.
It is no more than a lucky dip.

Btw never pay in full for things until you are happy with the result.

I really do sympathise. I hate bad workmanship.
I hope you get it sorted for a reasonable cost.

I could'nt even see the screen if I'd been on a night out let alone write something as sensible as that. I applaud you sir.

 

[SimonG]

I'll play devils advocate. From the pictures it's poor work, end of. But how many quotes/estimates did you get? If you got a few did you personally speak to past customers, not some potentially exaggerated claims on a web site? I tend to find that if you are only paying peanuts then your sows ear won't be a silk purse.

It annoys me to death that customers let 'tradesmen' (used very loosely) get away with this. But in this case the waters have been muddied by you jumping in and 'doing' things that the 'plumber' should have done.

Did you see his qualifications for the electrics? I'd be more worried about that then the water. You can at least see the problems with water. With electrics you don't normally know until you get the report off of the fire investigator.

I hope you get it sorted.

 

[Helpfulplumber]

Think you got a duffer there, why did you pay them? Take them to the small claims court, no point messing around with reports and lawyers. You have pictures and a good account of the job, small claims court is for this type of disagreement. A recorded delivery from the courts has a way of sharpening people's response times as well. Good luck.

 

[petercj]

Think you got a duffer there, why did you pay them? Take them to the small claims court, no point messing around with reports and lawyers. You have pictures and a good account of the job, small claims court is for this type of disagreement. A recorded delivery from the courts has a way of sharpening people's response times as well. Good luck.

Yes, agree, I'd give it a go on the basis of keeping cost to bare minimum (unless the OP has legal cover on house insurance, then go for a Report) but, if the OP has no evidence of a contract with this plumber, usually confirmed by an invoice or a receipt, it's going to be difficult to justify a claim.

Court fees here...

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/court-fees

 

[tamz]

I could'nt even see the screen if I'd been on a night out let alone write something as sensible as that. I applaud you sir.

I can hardly see it now.....ruff:coffee: