Low/ No Gas pressure...please help

[wheeto]

Yes is the short answer to your question but here's the long hand answer:

U6 meter - 6m[SUP]3[/SUP]/hr of gas

Here's the maths wheeto:

Heat input = (Gas Rate x Calorific Value of gas)/3.6

or

(6 x 38.6)/3.6 = 64.33 kW/hr

A U6/E6 meter will therefore supply appliances up to the value of 64kW max guaranteed! Any more than that required for the property and you'll require a larger gas meter!

Thanks for the maths, but you still got the unit wrong ... it's 64kW, not kW/h.

 

[diamondgas]

Thanks for the maths, but you still got the unit wrong ... it's 64kW, not kW/h.

That's kind of sad that you'd question someone's GSR credentials on something so trivial! Hohummmmmm You're most likely right too wheeto but it detracts from the point I was getting accross to the op! Give yourself a pat on the back though for knowing your kW from your kW/hrs :clap:

 

[wheeto]

That's kind of sad that you'd question someone's GSR credentials on something so trivial! Hohummmmmm You're most likely right too wheeto but it detracts from the point I was getting accross to the op! Give yourself a pat on the back though for knowing your kW from your kW/hrs :clap:

Sorry. I'm sure you know I wasn't genuinely questioning your credentials - hence the emoticon in the first post - but everyone has pet peeves and one of mine is meaningless* units

Anyway you're right ... it's not helping the OP!

*OK, technically I suppose kW/hr is a unit of rate of change of power, struggling to find an application though.

 

[mountainman]

It seems the OP has left the building!

 

[Resolute]

It seems the OP has left the building!

We obviously weren't helpful enough or didn't tell them what they wanted to hear!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

it sounds simple fault to me,if there getting 21 at the boiler but its dropping to zero when theres a a demand the governors shot

 

[Resolute]

it sounds simple fault to me,if there getting 21 at the boiler but its dropping to zero when theres a a demand the governors shot

I'd say this too except the problem only occurs on the new boiler and not the existing one.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

I'd say this too except the problem only occurs on the new boiler and not the existing one.

existing one could be standard efficiency new one band a zero governor,old one will work with a dodgy governor new one wont

 

[Simon F]

Yes is the short answer to your question but here's the long hand answer:
U6 meter - 6m[SUP]3[/SUP]/hr of gas
Here's the maths wheeto:
Heat input = (Gas Rate x Calorific Value of gas)/3.6
or
(6 x 38.6)/3.6 = 64.33 kW/hr
A U6/E6 meter will therefore supply appliances up to the value of 64kW max guaranteed! Any more than that required for the property and you'll require a larger gas meter!

does that take into account the diversity factor for meter sizing?

 

[AWheating]

i found it hard that some even posted suggesting what to test and look for without the OP showing any knowledge or competence. I know its hard to judge and we all give information out in good faith. You get shot down if you question people who in escence are strangers.
For all we know its somebody whos done the work themselves and is up tit creek now it does not work and nobody they have phoned will touch it. who knows?? you cant always believe what somebody has posted on the internet, if you read my online dating profile im 6ft5 and hung like a horse...... sadly only one of them is true

 

[Bernie2]

My view is that most people know about Gas Safe engineers being required. They also know that if they are not competent they should not touch it even if it is in their own home. If they do not know that, then what are Gas Safe doing to promote safety?

One has to assume they do know the law. So there would appear little harm in telling them how things work. At some point you have to trust people to behave in a proper manner. After all you can watch doctors at work on the telly some even show you in detail. But do you go out and and operate on people?

 

[SimonG]

My view is that most people know about Gas Safe engineers being required. They also know that if they are not competent they should not touch it even if it is in their own home. If they do not know that, then what are Gas Safe doing to promote safety?

One has to assume they do know the law. So there would appear little harm in telling them how things work. At some point you have to trust people to behave in a proper manner. After all you can watch doctors at work on the telly some even show you in detail. But do you go out and and operate on people?

Nice analogy but imho not relevant as you wouldn't drop out your own appendix to save a few quid. I would like as you say to trust people but it is sometimes difficult.

I don't do gas, but would like to think if I did, and legally, I would know what to look for in the op situation without the cust having to trawl the internet to find a resolution. Even if i was stuck I would like to think I 'knew a man who could'. Something just seems off, but then that could just be the paranoia setting in, who said that

 

[M.Joshi]

With so many crooks and so-called GSR people around, people (like myself) come on here to obtain the correct information so that we are not fobbed off and are better informed.

If you're not happy giving advice in an open forum to the public then stick to the exclusive GSR forums.

 

[AWheating]

unfortunately although people know the law and right and wrong it will not stop them for what ever reason doing as they please. As a profession we should atleast try our best to avoid giving irresponsible advise. You cant control what people do with any information you give them, but you can try your best to avoid giving information when there is doubt about the legitimacy of the person or questions.

I cant see why some posters get upset when they get questioned about the reason's behind the posts, if they want an honest, safe and informative answer then why be defensive? some members even get upset and LIKE any post that seems to even question another member just because they dont like what was said in one post ( you can see patterns from some members and its petty)

ask yourself this. If the original post said ive fitted my own boiler and it wont work, please tell me how to fix it myself? what would your answer have been? i suppose atleast id like them more for the honesty.

 

[AWheating]

With so many crooks and so-called GSR people around, people (like myself) come on here to obtain the correct information so that we are not fobbed off and are better informed.

If you're not happy giving advice in an open forum to the public then stick to the exclusive GSR forums.

why do people need to ask detailed gas related questions if they are not either GSR or learning/training to be?? why do you need to be better informed about these things unless it relates to your job or future job??

if you cant see the argument that caution is needed when giving advise about such things and its not unreasonable to question some people then im lost

 

[M.Joshi]

I agree caution is needed but people come on here to be better informed because they have been stung/fobbed off in the past and also some of the tosh that some GSR people say when you speak to them to obtain quotes for repairs etc. - I don't mean that about most forum members on here who seem to know their trade well.

It's good to be better informed so that you know that the plumber/GSR person doing the work for you isn't fobbing you off.

I may ask technical questions but that doesn't mean that I will carry out gas work myself! I am just interested to find out the correct answer/solution.

 

[AWheating]

I agree caution is needed but people come on here to be better informed because they have been stung/fobbed off in the past and also some of the tosh that some GSR people say when you speak to them to obtain quotes for repairs etc. - I don't mean that about most forum members on here who seem to know their trade well.

It's good to be better informed so that you know that the plumber/GSR person doing the work for you isn't fobbing you off.

I may ask technical questions but that doesn't mean that I will carry out gas work myself! I am just interested to find out the correct answer/solution.

Iunderstand what your saying and agree that its probably a good thing to be well informed. You have to draw a line tho, giving technical answers or advise on how to test for things is not needed for a customer to be well informed. There has to be a line drawn in the sand between customer and engineer (trainee incl) when you give answers imo. If you have a customer having to go onto a internet forum to ask questions for her/his engineer the only real answer is to get a better engineer. If you was a customer and your engineer asked you to try and find answers you should be worried.

i cant say i have never given answers to poeple i wished i didnt, but im slowly learning its advisable not to if im unsure. Some posts are blantently a diyer wanting to work illegally. Some you just dont know and take a judgement, we are human afterall.

Im perfectly fine with tradepeople who want to learn and advance there knowledge asking questions, i myself wanted to understand electrics so went to college for 4.5 years to learn it. During that time i probably peed off pleanty of sparks asking question after question .

Reading posts and listening to customers it opens your eyes to how poorly the trade is viewed in many peoples eyes, the only gas engineers you see on tv are one ripping off customers because it sells and brings in viewers. Many customers expect to be stung as you put it, so as engineers i guess we all have some part to play in trying to lift the opinions of the trade. So even tho this is just an open forum maybe we ow it to ourseves to answer questions professionally. What exactly is the best way to do this is up for debate. You get accused of being a rip of merchant when you disconnect a dangerous appliance, or a wazock for suggesting somebody gets a competent person in..... sometimes you cant win,

i need a beer.

 

[AWheating]

With so many crooks and so-called GSR people around

this is one reason why i question giving answers in open forums, this is what many customers are thinking before they phone you up about work. Am i answering a question to an ilegall fitter? if so am i only helping make the above statement more true. but on the flip side the more we discuss technical issues and the more we all learn and become better engineers the better. Its a hard balance i must admit.

 

[Bernie2]

The problem is the questioner could find all the answers out, simply by buying a book, looking at MI's or going down to their main library and reading the relevant BS document for free. I like to think the person who I am doing the work for knows as much about the job as me. Then you get mutual understanding of what is involved. It is not necessarily that they will go away and work illegally. It is like speeding, it is entirely up to the driver if they decide to do so, but I would not stop a person from learning to drive just because they might speed. Its the same with a gun, having the knowledge or giving the knowledge about how to fire one is perhaps harmless, it is only when a nutter decides to kill that they become dangerous.


I can appreciate the point your making and to a certain degree I agree with you, but what if the person knows little about what they are doing but still decides to do it? Surely that is far more dangerous? As a young man I thought flying a glider looks easy, but when you learn what is really involved its a whole new game and you realise it isn't.

 

[mountainman]

I don't suppose this thread would have originated had the OP employed an engineer off of the Gas Safe website.

 

[M.Joshi]

I don't suppose this thread would have originated had the OP employed an engineer off of the Gas Safe website.

It would be great if everyone on the GSR website are as knowledgeable as most people on this forum but the sad fact is, they arent.

We shouldn't speculate on who the OP has employed to carry out the work.

Hopefully the OP will come back and answer all the questions above being raised about the installer!

 

[Rickster123]

What makes me laugh are the people giving out boiler advice without being qualified to do so! It really is a case of the blind leading the blind and I'm certain that in the not to distant future it will lead to trouble.

 

[M.Joshi]

I'm certain that in the not to distant future it will lead to trouble.

Seems as though you are quite sure about this!?

 

[mountainman]

It would be great if everyone on the GSR website are as knowledgeable as most people on this forum but the sad fact is, they arent.

We shouldn't speculate on who the OP has employed to carry out the work.

Hopefully the OP will come back and answer all the questions above being raised about the installer!

Who's speculating?
If even a novice GSR found themselves in this predicament all they would have to do is call in a Gas Safe Inspector who would visit the site and give them top quality advice free of charge.
What kind of 'engineer' gets their customer to post a question like this on an Internet forum?
Possibly one who's sole source of knowledge has been by posting questions on various forums.

 

[rodders]

What kind of 'engineer' gets their customer to post a question like this on an Internet forum?

Maybe the OP is the engineer...

 

[rodders]

This is a reccuring theme on these forums when people disappear, forum members automatically assume the OP has either come on here to find out how to solve the problem themselves or they are rogue installers!

I admit I do. Think about it. Double dip recession, free advice on here or get GSR engineer in. People will abuse this site... IMHO.

Sorry.

 

[mountainman]

Maybe the OP is the engineer...

Could be, we may never know.
BUT, no one knows everything and it would be nice if a poster who has received advice tells us if we were right.
To be fair most of the problems posted are easily sorted by someone knowledgeable on site.
All we get is limited information and maybe a photo.

 

[rodders]

Could be, we may never know.

I may be wrong, but I say this because they said "we" in the first post.

They didn't seem to know anything about gas work, but stated "first fix" before anyone else metioned this, seems a bit odd for them to be referring to first fix don't you think?

Also, the OP stated tapping into the gas meter etc, why is then engineer not sorting the problem out? Why tell the customer they may need to tap in before the meter, again doesn't seem right, seems to me IMO that the OP is the engineer trying to get advice for free from here.

The OP asks "Is the bigger meter size (i think you said U16) domestic or commercial? " Why would the customer need to know this? Also from a quick look I didnt see anyone say U16 (but I might of missed that!)

Lastly, user name of SARA and signed the name in the first post as Aaliya.

IMHO sounds like we are getting played, but as Mountainman says we may never know.

 

[M.Joshi]

Lastly, user name of SARA and signed the name in the first post as Aaliya.

I did wonder about this too rodders?

 

[AWheating]

any competent person reading the opening post would be suspicious imo, most experienced engineers that tried to reply questioned the thread for good reason. Righty or wrongly is a personal opinion i guess.

Its is a general forum rule to not give information to diy installers, just take a judgement on weather you think the op is genuine or not. Dont get upset tho if you dont like the responce's on an open forum.

 

[AWheating]

The answer then is simple as I've said before. If you aren't happy (for whatever reason) about giving free advice to the public or grumble about posts, stick to the exclusive GSR forum. For those of us who are, we'll continue helping people in the main forums.

BTW, I'm not specifically saying that you grumble rodders!

the problem with this is if all the experienced sensible Gas Safe registered engineers on this forum stuck to the exclusive GSR forum it would mean the only answers posters get are from people using google or engineers who are happy to encourage illegal work.

i dont care if somebody kills themself aslong as it was not done with my advise.

 

[Millsy 82]

I don't suppose this thread would have originated had the OP employed an engineer off of the Gas Safe website.

Unfortunately they might have I know of several engineers who are lazy, Incompetent or both. It is not always the customers fault the ACS are far too easy as its a case of if you can read you can pass it. Everybody was terrified when it went over from ACOPS ( I think I started gas just after it swapped) but from what I have been told of the old ACOPS it is just the same.

If I was the customer I would get another engineer in for a second opinion but an engineer that comes recommended from a friend/relative/neighbour.

It is a very basic problem and I would expect a good engineer to find the problem no problems but there are engineers who only fit and never have to find faults with things (As soon as it goes wrong they call the manufacturer) and as a customer you would not know that until its too late.

 

[AWheating]

Unfortunately they might have I know of several engineers who are lazy, Incompetent or both. It is not always the customers fault the ACS are far too easy as its a case of if you can read you can pass it. Everybody was terrified when it went over from ACOPS ( I think I started gas just after it swapped) but from what I have been told of the old ACOPS it is just the same.

If I was the customer I would get another engineer in for a second opinion but an engineer that comes recommended from a friend/relative/neighbour.

It is a very basic problem and I would expect a good engineer to find the problem no problems but there are engineers who only fit and never have to find faults with things (As soon as it goes wrong they call the manufacturer) and as a customer you would not know that until its too late.

when i did my acops there was 2 painters, a chippy and a guy who was on the dole who all had no plumbing/gas experience on the course. They all passed even i did not have enough experience and knowledge to be competent really and it was the last year of my 4 year apprenticeship. Thats why they made the ACS alot harder to get on the course in the first place.

 

[mountainman]

Maybe Millsy but if the engineer is GSR then they can call on free expert advice from Gas Safe.
I can only think of one reason why they wouldn't.

 

[Millsy 82]

Maybe Millsy but if the engineer is GSR then they can call on free expert advice from Gas Safe.
I can only think of one reason why they wouldn't.

They can call gas safe but every time I have phoned them they have been absolutely useless, Ask them a question they dont really answer it they should be politicians really ( But in their defence the last 2 times I have phoned them it was on flues in voids and I dont think the person who thought that reg up knows every thing about it)

AWHeating: Is that why they changed it then to stop Non plumbers getting onto the courses as I said I started just after they changed over so I dont know much about ACOPS.When I first did mine I was in my 4th year of an apprenticeship I had been working on gas through that time with another person obviously (Right miserable sod and looked a bit like diamondgas avatar but was good at his job) but there were others who had never touched gas.I know now that you have to get a portfolio together and I think that is a really good idea.

 

[Simon F]

I am sure that I read somewhere that it was the intention of the admin team at one time to put a gas safe logo up with the name/avatar of everyone who was registered.
that would be a really good addition, because then it would be clear to everyone, general public or regular forum members that the advice was coming from someone who had put in the time and was qualified to be giving the advice.
Rather than it simply being an unqualified person passing on what they thought they knew



just had a look for the thing about the logo for gsr
http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/g...ate-gas-safety-registered-plumbers-forum.html

 

[mountainman]

Sorry to hear that Millsy, not good enough but maybe you've been unlucky.

Not a bad idea Simon, admin should be along in a while to advise.

 

[AWheating]

AWHeating: Is that why they changed it then to stop Non plumbers getting onto the courses as I said I started just after they changed over so I dont know much about ACOPS.When I first did mine I was in my 4th year of an apprenticeship I had been working on gas through that time with another person obviously (Right miserable sod and looked a bit like diamondgas avatar but was good at his job) but there were others who had never touched gas.I know now that you have to get a portfolio together and I think that is a really good idea.

it was too easy to do and pass the acops course. There were alot of guys being put through it who were unemployed and had no prior experience of even basic plumbing. It was concerning to see two painters in white painter dungarees being showed how to test a flue and service a cooker.

I think the idea of having to prove some experience before being allowed to take the ACS is a good idea, tho there are plenty of fast track type course's that seem to get around whats required somehow. Not knocking all of these types of courses tho as i know some good engineers who went through them.

 

[sara275]

wow

Guys firstly apologies for the delay in reply, i simply had had enough and needed a break as the stress is getting overbearing. Anyway, i came back to check and update and tbh surprised of the number of replies for which i feel bad for no updating sooner.

Anyway here goes, since my last message, i looked into this further and decided to go for a new meter/ supply for the above extension. Why? Because it serves 2 purposes, i will need it for the long term to have a separate supply to make property separate and secondly it will eliminate any pressure problems at source. If that dont work then i will get someone, maybe still the existing guy to look at suggestions of blockages etc kindly mentioned above to be resolved. Incidentally, you think i should go for a U6 or U16 considering it will be about a 15 to 20 meter run now to boiler?

I've just read some responses above and feel the need to mention to those who keep banging on about GSR people should have looked at the job, Let me clarify and tell you that the current guy is GSR and before him i had 2 others who were GSR look at the job and NONE, i repeat NONE of them said that tapping into the current supply should be a problem and no problems were anticipated. The first fix was installed by another GSR.

For those thinking i am not a genuine questioner, just move onto another thread, especially AWheating; you seem to have an issue with this and keep repeating the same thing without any value AT ALL to your comments. Unlike other kind commenters here, you seem ssoooo negative and stuck in your own ways. Please move onto another thread (as i suggested before) if you cannot add value.

Thanks so much again to ALL who helped me here. I am just someone trying to learn as much as i can (unwillingly) because i have been thrown at he deep end to make sure the correct steps are taken to complete the overall extension project. I started with ZERO building experience and can probably now manage a build from scratch very easily after managing this project. Learning about the gas side is another part of the learning journey. Having said hat, i dont think i will be takin on another project in a hurry!!

Thanks again ALL

 

[galaxy_plumbing]

hope you get it sorted Sara good luck

 

[sara275]

thanks! just psyching up now to call gas company for meter supply (dunno if hey charge etc) and then onto national grid.

hope you get it sorted Sara good luck

 

[AWheating]

thanks for your advise

 

[mountainman]

thanks for your advise

Consider yourself told off lol.

 

[johnpatton450]

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