kinked, crimped and coiled 8mm pipework

[ShaunCorbs]

Yea there's a few out there just do more than one and compare results

 

[1animal1]

I see what you mean, I've tried 3 so far, 3200, 4200 & 3700btu!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I see what you mean, I've tried 3 so far, 3200, 4200 & 3700btu!

3700 btu just over 1kw is the average

 

[1animal1]

Thanks!

I didn't expect them to vary that much!

 

[1animal1]

Upon closer inspection of one of the manifold's, it appears that 2 of the 4 branches double back to the return manifold. Therefore the massive crimping session that's gone on is obviously to reduce flow, but leave enough for it to act as a relief valve.... I was under the impression that the way to add a relief valve was to fit at least one rad with no trv, only lockshields?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

yes on full systems you have two choices either fit an auto bypass or fit one rad with lockshields ie normally a bathroom

 

[1animal1]

So him crimping a bypass pipe constitutes an auto bypass or have I had bodge it n scarper fit this system?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

So him crimping a bypass pipe constitutes an auto bypass or have I had bodge it n scarper fit this system?

if theres no valve on it they have bodged it

 

[1animal1]

I haven't discovered one yet. Where's the most likely place for one?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I haven't discovered one yet. Where's the most likely place for one?

should be on the 8mm if there is one

if not put a auto bypass on best place would be after the pump but before the motorized valve and in 22mm

 

[1animal1]

Unless it's mid run on the 8mm then there isn't one, I'll just fit two lockshields on a rad . I'm sure the pre prepped unvented will have one, won't it?

One other question... Fitting a new 22mm pipe, hole in the beam or notches in the top? Which is most viable and professional?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Unless it's mid run on the 8mm then there isn't one, I'll just fit two lockshields on a rad . I'm sure the pre prepped unvented will have one, won't it?

One other question... Fitting a new 22mm pipe, hole in the beam or notches in the top? Which is most viable and professional?

if you hole will need to be drill from the center of the joist (unless your plastic or take a brick out you wont do it in copper)

and re the unvented you will need a g3 plumber to install that

 

[1animal1]

No probs, I'm thinking for the hot water pipe that my plumber asked me to install from the new site to the airing cupboard. I'm going to run the 22mm a bit further than he suggested and route some to the bath too, that way less wasted hot water than going through the old pipes - I'll be using barrier so holes may be best.

He is accredited to fit the unvented

 

[1animal1]

Is it worth running 22mm to the bath hot tap from an unvented? Or is this overkill?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Is it worth running 22mm to the bath hot tap from an unvented? Or is this overkill?

will give you better flow and i would if you could

 

[rpm]

Is it worth running 22mm to the bath hot tap from an unvented? Or is this overkill?

Aren`t bath taps 22mm rather than 15mm?

 

[1animal1]

It's going to get a 22mm riser, then 6 -7 metres to the airing cupboard in 15mm. It passes the bathroom along the way so seemed a good idea. Just wasn't sure on flow rates.... Cheers Shaun

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Aren`t bath taps 22mm rather than 15mm?

they are but half the time people just use a 15mm - 3/4 flex / tap connector

 

[1animal1]

Aren`t bath taps 22mm rather than 15mm?

No idea, my last lot of surface mounted taps and overflow filler were 15mm...

 

[rpm]

No idea, my last lot of surface mounted taps and overflow filler were 15mm...

Sure someone will advise you. Thought bath was 22 & basin 15mm

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Sure someone will advise you. Thought bath was 22 & basin 15mm

well 3/4 and 1/2 but your right

 

[rpm]

well 3/4 and 1/2 but your right

Talking pipe size not BSP tap size, but sure you knew that.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Talking pipe size not BSP tap size, but sure you knew that.

hoping you would spend a bit of time thinking wtf, cant pull the wool over your eyes

 

[rpm]

hoping you would spend a bit of time thinking wtf, cant pull the wool over your eyes

I`m sure you will one day Shaun, I don`t pretend to know it all even with +25yrs experience of water & pumps. lol

 

[1animal1]

Out of pure curiosity. What would it cost me in the region of for an upstairs repipe and the extra 7-8 metres of water section to be fitted in copper by a plumber. I know there must be many variables, just wondering for a medium sized 4 bed.

 

[1animal1]

Can you chaps help please

I'm just working out where my 3 22mm pipes will enter the garage where the boiler and cylinder will be sited. I've looked into the calculations for notching and or drilling joints and trying to work out the best path. The rear of the garage is a simple breeze block so gather the boiler would have to be on the outside wall...

My question is, as the joist above the rear garage wall runs proud. It means that if I drop my pipes by notches, then they will enter the garage through the ceiling about 3-4 inch from the wall. Easily sorted with a few 90's, however I'm just wondering if that will hinder the flow much with it being so close to a few 90's so early on

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Can you chaps help please

I'm just working out where my 3 22mm pipes will enter the garage where the boiler and cylinder will be sited. I've looked into the calculations for notching and or drilling joints and trying to work out the best path. The rear of the garage is a simple breeze block so gather the boiler would have to be on the outside wall...

My question is, as the joist above the rear garage wall runs proud. It means that if I drop my pipes by notches, then they will enter the garage through the ceiling about 3-4 inch from the wall. Easily sorted with a few 90's, however I'm just wondering if that will hinder the flow much with it being so close to a few 90's so early on

Use two 45 and make an offset

 

[1animal1]

Thanks Shaun, I can't see a way around it without hacking the joists and adding even more bends to get them beneath the joists, which I'd obviously like to avoid.

One thing on the joist calcs, it mentions minimum and maximum distance from the ends as to where you can notch. Is there any issues doing one big notch at Max depth (23mm) for two of the 22mm's? With a bit of underlay between them

 

[PhoenixServices]

Depending on the thickness and depth of the joist, that should've done. Most flow+ returns for heating are run like this.

 

[1animal1]

Thanks phoenix, they are 8inch joists @ 2.6m across, apologies for the curious cross measurements.

Calculator I used gives me 2 or 3 mm extra over the depth of the 22mm to avoid the boards above. One cut was done near the end of the joist 50mm from the minimum safe by the original fitter for a piece of 15mm, so I thought rather than cut a third notch, just expand that one given its already there

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Thanks Shaun, I can't see a way around it without hacking the joists and adding even more bends to get them beneath the joists, which I'd obviously like to avoid.

One thing on the joist calcs, it mentions minimum and maximum distance from the ends as to where you can notch. Is there any issues doing one big notch at Max depth (23mm) for two of the 22mm's? With a bit of underlay between them

Do it like this, ignore the sizes

 

[1animal1]

I'll drop the pipes down in that case and let my plumber cut and put some copper 45's in to make it look neat and tidy.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I'll drop the pipes down in that case and let my plumber cut and put some copper 45's in to make it look neat and tidy.

Drop the pipes 3 - 4 inches below the ceiling

 

[1animal1]

Evening all.

I have yet another question about bath taps. I know there's no reason to use 22mm to the bath if using a combi, I also know to use 22mm if you have a vented cylinder. Is there likely to be a noticeable downside to running the final 2m in 15mm from my 22mm feed pipe assuming I use 1/2 taps? Thinking pressure, but will it be that noticeable on a pressurised unvented system

 

[ShaunCorbs]

no you will be fine get as far as you can with 22mm (easily) then 15mm from there

 

[1animal1]

Excellent, thanks Shaun....

 

[1animal1]

Radiators.... Old ones to be exact. I gather they're worthless and I should take them to the tip? I only have 3 mediums to go

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yea worth nothing unless you have a ton and yes or to a scrap man

 

[1animal1]

Stage 1 complete! I have removed the 2nd rad in the large room, soaking myself in the process as i only needed to cap two pipes - luckily it was only mains pressure (I would have had to drain otherwise).

I have also ran the extension to the rad feed ready for this to be soldered by my plumber, and placed the hot water feed parallel with 22mm copper then onto a 22x15x15 tee (to main bathroom and en suite shower)... my only query at this point was that i had to create an S bend in the 15mm going to this tee, it's tight but hasn't kinked, though it wouldn't enter the tee easily, so i removed it from the 22mm pipe to fit the 15's, then reconnected to the 22mm which seems to have done the trick - I imagine this will hold with superseal inserts pushed fully home even though there's a pressure from the pipe S bend on the fitting? (The S is spread between 1 beam cavity).

Thankfully the main bath feed went down one beam cavity - the shower had to cross multiple beams for which there was existing notches from an old pipe route, these are either just below (2mm) or rest on the floorboards, but are definitely not squashed by them - although i expect plastic pipe on boards won't have the same issue you get with the banging copper variants.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Post a pic up of your s bend thing if you can

 

[1animal1]

Not really, easily - the boards are back down.

With the sounds, it could be a potential issue? the 15mm pipe exits the top of the beam and heads at roughly 35 degrees towards the tee, then bends another 35 degree when it gets to entering the tee.

 

[1animal1]

Shaun, I decided to remove the boards again and fit a 135 elbow on the off chance the angle was too tight, rather be safe than sorry for the sake of £3.50

You can also see the new 22mm feed in the top right of the picture, I need to get my plumber to attach that the pipe with the bend in. Nice bit of tight soldering required

 

[ShaunCorbs]

two problems i see is

no felt on timbers (copper pipe) so will make nosie when heating

jg ring is too close to timber if pipe is pulled changes of it pushing the ring in

and whats with the yellow glove finger?

 

[1animal1]

View attachment 24727

 

[Best]

What a mess. That soldered tee doesn't look good. Perhaps leaking

 

[1animal1]

Haha the rubber finger was a way to keep the pipe sealed as I'm not sure when the plumber can attach. As you can see here it'll be a pain to do... Luckily the 15mm running to the feed can be removed now, the 15mm return will have to be capped at a later date otherwise it'll be too difficult to relocate before the new system is fitted.

Regards the ring being too close, I did think that but upon locking the joint, that ring also locks, or appears to? I can shorten the 15mm going to it easily enough, that will pull the 22mm out where I originally fitted it... Or further up the run a clip could solve that issue.

Underlay... I hadn't bothered as these pipes are just ever so slightly too high, not because of the notches but because of the join art the bend being too proud. When my chap puts a tee in there I'm hoping that will address that issue and sink the pipes a few mm into the notches

 

[1animal1]

What a mess. That soldered tee doesn't look good. Perhaps leaking

It's not great is it. That joint luckily isn't leaking but will be removed when the T gets installed to the downstairs feed... Where the yellow finger is

 

[Best]

You really need pipes notched in centre of each board. And it is much better to put only one pipe in below each board. That way you have no damage to joist and plenty of joist to screw board to, but also plenty of space between each pipe for soldering and bending pipes to tees

 

[1animal1]

That would have been the ideal, I've not actually cut any notches apart from the hot water feed with the 22x15x15 jg connection. I'm just trying to make the best of what was done originally.

Question... When I convert the feed and returns to the rads to 15mm, the plan is to use holes mid beam as there are a couple of points where notches won't be possible. Can you buy stubby bits to get the makita between the beams to drill? Gathering angled holes won't be good for the joists

 

[ShaunCorbs]

use a side drill/ angle drill and stubby augers