is time served the same as an apprenticeship

[gmac]

My personal view is alot depends on the person, there plenty of so called plumbers who have done an apprenticeship after leaving school and really should never have got the quals, I've been there with them in the past, I've had unqualified men working for me in the past who were in a league of their own when it came to plumbing, So regardless of whether they've been to college and got nvqs I couldn't care less, nvq's don't mean what they're meant to mean, plenty of people with them not competent through the apprenticeship route as well as fast tracking, personally i'd employ a competent unqualifed plumber over an incompetent qualified plumber everytime.

 

[fuzzy]

Lol a diplomat answer

Any apprentice we have ever had did not learn very much at collage was learnt out on site

Not surprised if you sent them a collage, you should have sent them to a College, lol

I hear that a lot (more often than not those who didn't do a traditional apprenticeship), in my own experience I learned much at work but all the underpinning knowledge and basic skills came from College. When I was still in my early days I would often recall things I learned at College when in a new situation. If you learn the basics well in anything you can always refer back to them when struggling. I honestly believe its a case of both aspects are very important, College for underpinning knowledge and theory background and work to apply it. One without the other doesnt give you the full perspective or training required to be at the top of your game. There will always be exceptions to this rule but im talking about the majority.

Plus, my suggestion of what is 'time served' is just the normal use of the term, i dont know if its correct or not but it is what its known as.

I'm not an apprentice snob, i think there are some, there should always be routes to become qualified, i feel like much in society the pendulum has swung to far towards making it too easily accesible, but going to a closed shop isnt the answer either, we need a healthy balance

 

[fuzzy]

My personal view is alot depends on the person, there plenty of so called plumbers who have done an apprenticeship after leaving school and really should never have got the quals, I've been there with them in the past, I've had unqualified men working for me in the past who were in a league of their own when it came to plumbing, So regardless of whether they've been to college and got nvqs I couldn't care less, nvq's don't mean what they're meant to mean, plenty of people with them not competent through the apprenticeship route as well as fast tracking, personally i'd employ a competent unqualifed plumber over an incompetent qualified plumber everytime.

I hear you but there are always exceptions to the rule. i think a balance is best. i would never ever disregard quality worth while training at a centre/college. Just because some people have left and have been rubbish does not mean the system does not work, there are many people, me included had a good experience and I'm glad I had that experience

 

[Gray0689]

The biggest problem I see with college (not very good at spelling obviously lol)
Is the the teachers themselves are not very good (not saying all just in my experience) they no very little about real world plumbing just very basic stuff that could be picked up after a couple of months out on site

 

[fuzzy]

Im sorry thats your experience Gray, fortunately it isnt mine. In their defense they can only teach what is in the scheme, they dont have the authority to teach what they want. Plus every company is different, how would they know what each employer wanted/needed, they just have to do the basics and do it well

 

[gmac]

I understand other peoples views fully. I would look upon time-served as an old school term, if i was recruiting I would be quoting time-served or qualified plumber in the add, alot of old school boys don't have the quals but are very clued up in all aspects of the game,

 

[Blackcatgas]

The biggest problem I see with college (not very good at spelling obviously lol)
Is the the teachers themselves are not very good (not saying all just in my experience) they no very little about real world plumbing just very basic stuff that could be picked up after a couple of months out on site

This is the guy that taught me [DLMURL="http://www.ericmace.co.uk/experience.php"]Eric Mace[/DLMURL]
He is a legend, nobody played up in his lessons because we all had respect for him, out of the 3 lecturers we had only 1 was a bellend but to be fair he had forgotten more about plumbing than I know.

 

[gmac]

Is it a possibility that the tutors/teachers whatever you want to call them are entering the teaching game too soon and it should be mandatory to have a set number of years working on sites before allowing them teach the trade

 

[fuzzy]

it is advised that tutors have relevant industrial experience but as far as i know there is no minimum mount of time. for example you can get people who have flown through the qual, been on site one year and could be brilliant tutors. there can be people who have all the quals in the world and 40 years experience and may not be able to get their points across ie teach. Its difficult to put definites on it you just need a good balance of everything

to assess work in any trade you need to be qualified to advanced level and have a minimum of 5 years post qual experience

 

[markfxy]

Company I used to work for classed time served as either a 4 year apprenticeship with college or 7 years as an improver HVCA rules I think. Can't see anyone wanting to do 7 years now before they're qualified. Do they still have improvers?