Is this legal?

[Nas]

Ive been called to fit a gas fire in a house the the owner is having his upstairs chimney breast removed. But he's still planning keeping the chimney breast downstairs, with a flue liner. He wants the flue liner to come out of the side wall of the house level with where the chimney breast ends. Is This allowed??. I've probably not explained it too well so I've attached a diagram to try and explain?
I've tried to find the answer in my books to no avail

 

[arran197]

Erm, NO!

 

[arran197]

A flue liner should only be used for that, lining a flue brick chimney. Secondly, if it needs a flue liner it will be open flued, which means the flue must be vertical. You are only allowed a bend of 45 degrees.

 

[nysk2008]

looking at your diagram I know firms like kindel do a power flue range that may suit your install and help you get round the probs you are coming up against, im a new GS engineer so sorry if Ive got this wrong

 

[gassafe]

If he does have the work done il look out for the "Carbon monoxide" fatality story in my next gas installer magazine = o

 

[gasmarc]

Defo a no no imho , I would pass on gas fires If you would ever consider doing that, 2 90 degree bends does that not ring a bell

 

[Nas]

looking at your diagram I know firms like kindel do a power flue range that may suit your install and help you get round the probs you are coming up against, im a new GS engineer so sorry if Ive got this wrong

I'm a newly GS registered as well. so wanted some experienced guidance.

 

[arran197]

You could block up the chimney and fit a flueless, providing you can get the ventilation that is required. Not sure even a balanced flue fire would be suitable, you would have to drill a huge hole in the back of the builders opening and I'm not even sure the MI would allow one to be fitted with the flue passing through such a large void. Best thing would be either a flue less or electric.

 

[Nas]

Defo a no no imho , I would pass on gas fires If you would ever consider doing that, 2 90 degree bends does that not ring a bell

Thats just my diagram. There is in 1 bend at the top. The bottom I'm assuming he would want a connecting to the top of a flue box so there would be no bend there

 

[Nas]

Not sure why he doesn't take the breast out downstairs and has a balanced flue fitted in the same position.

 

[gasmarc]

I would not touch a flue less fire imho I would pass on the job myself. I presume the job is all above board with the local council involved , you wouldnt want a chimney stack falling on your head

 

[REDSAW]

on your head be it!.

 

[AWheating]

i would recommend either a balanced flue fire if one can be fitted or an electric fire. If i remember correctly there was a picture in the corgi mag a few years ago of a flue liner installed exactly the same as that drawing.

 

[Backboiler]

I thought this sub forum was intended for GSR engineers only. Anyone who has invested in the ACS ought to know that this is an unsafe situation. We could do without these bizzare questions

 

[Steve @ TheHeatingHub]

this isn't the sub forum Alan+

But I'd have to agree some crazy questions on this forum and I'm guessing those asking are not in fact GSR'd or they would be asking in the correct forum(the one at the top) I personally think that the new qualified guys have little to no respect of Gas and the dangers that go with it. I'm sure there is a rise in the last 2years of death of carbon monoxide related deaths although not sure where I read that but would either be in the GSR mag or the installer mag as the only thing I read hehe

 

[arran197]

The problem is that the newly qualified guys are coming off these fast track courses that purely get you your acs. You need a 2 year apprenticeship or a good solid background of the industry beforehand. I saw some things whilst I was doing my training and assessment. One guy was saying a boiler stat on a bbu was a flue failure device. I mean wtf?

 

[Toned.f]

The problem is that the newly qualified guys are coming off these fast track courses that purely get you your acs. You need a 2 year apprenticeship or a good solid background of the industry beforehand. I saw some things whilst I was doing my training and assessment. One guy was saying a boiler stat on a bbu was a flue failure device. I mean wtf?

Agreed... I recently had an encounter with an engineer of similiar age to myself ( 50s) at a manufacturers training day.
He asked me how long I took when servicing Fire back boiler unit CH units to which I replied never less than an hour , sometime a lot longer if it they had been neglected.
He stated that he usually took 15 - 20 minutes which prompted more questions from myself.
Turns out he was made redundant two years ago as a factory machinist and is a product of these fast track production lines..
He didnt know his arse from his elbow.

 

[CMairiD]

I'm going to be a dissenting voice, I'm afraid ...

I saw some things whilst I was doing my training and assessment. One guy was saying a boiler stat on a bbu was a flue failure device. I mean wtf?

Some of things I see in the field! Guys who have done more ACS then I've had hot dinners that still don't get that you are not allowed a drop on pipework ... new OR existing. I mean WTF?

C'mon, that's as elementary as confusing a boiler stat for a flue failure device.

Now why should someone who's had their card for five months have to teach time-served, apprenticed engineers (not one, not two, but FFS three of 'em) about permissible drops?

I'm not having a pop at those who went through traditional apprenticeships. As a matter of fact, I'm rather envious of their opportunity to go that route. However, not every fast-track kid is an accident waiting to happen, just as not very time-served engineer is a good old pair of safe hands.

 

[arran197]

I know what you mean mate, some of the old boys don't exactly do things by the book.

It's when you see service engineers servicing a gas fire and a boiler in 30 mins that you begin to worry a little. And when I go to appliances that have been left in a worse state than they were before you realise how much a proper job needs to be done. They all seem to be the same breed! Lol!

 

[tamz]

Good on you CmairiD. You should have recommended that they are sent for further training.
The biggest problem with guys who have been in the game for years is they get complacent or think they know it all.

There are good and bad at all levels of this trade but the newer ones fall down more due to lack of knowledge and experience especially if they are out on their own straight after they qualify.

 

[CMairiD]

I agree, the newer engineers do fall down with lack of experience and I do have concerns about fast-track kids out fully on their own, without a support network, unless they've had buckets of experience.

I did a 16 week course and over a year in the field before I got my ticket, yet there are still things that I will not do despite the fact that I have a card that says I can. You have to know your limitations and when to walk away.

 

[arran197]

I am the same in a way. I did a 2 years apprenticeship and got a number of categories on my card. Just under a year later and I am doing my commercial. Now I really don't like do commercial work, it just scares me tbh and really don't like doing it. Haven't done any for about 6 months now, so I am a bit rusty. The training I had wasn't very good either tbh, which brings me to another point. It all depends who and where trains you.

 

[Destroyer2813]

Ive had my card bout sixteen months and i know when i come acroos stuff i feel is over my head i politly decline and suggest they consult another engineer, Besafe and know when somthing aint for you i say

 

[gastech83]

you cant fit it with a flexi liner
but you could try and find a colid twin wall liner for the fire but the bends have to be exposed or easy access for servicing
but if you do this check the M.I's as you need to make sure you use the correct liner clips and it terminates atleast 1200mm passed the roofs pitch

lee.